Here is the chronology for THE WIZARD OF OZ (long promised).

Day 1 - Cyclone - Dorothy & Toto carried off.

 (an unknown amount of time--Baum says "hour after hour"--passes 
 while Dorothy is carried in the cyclone. I assume about 12 hours.)

Day 2 - Dorothy arrives in the land of the Munchkins - meets Witch of the North -
  night in Boq's house
Day 3 - Dorothy encounters the Scarecrow - the three enter the great forest - night
  in Tin Woodman's cottage
Day 4 - The party rescues the Tin Woodman - they encounter the Cowardly Lion - night
  in forest "under a large tree"
Day 5 - The party crosses the great ditch - they meet the Kalidahs - they come to the
  river - Tin Woodman makes a raft - night on river bank
Day 6 - The party crosses the river - the Scarecrow is marooned - they enter the field
  of poppies in afternoon (the Tin Woodman wants to reach the Yellow Brick Road before
  dark) & are rescued by the field mice - night in farmhouse in Emerald City area
  (everything is green)
Day 7 - The party comes to the Emerald City in afternoon - night in Palace
Day 8 - Dorothy meets the Great Oz
Day 9 - The Scarecrow meets the Great Oz
Day 10 - The Tin Woodman meets the Great Oz
Day 11 - The Cowardly Lion meets the Great Oz
Day 12 - The party leaves the Emerald City to find the Wicked Witch of the West - attack
  by wolves in afternoon - night in open field
Day 13 - The party is attacked by crows, bees, & Winkies - Winged Monkeys attack
  Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, carry Dorothy, Toto & Lion to Witch's castle 
Days 14-21 At this point the captivity of Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion begins.
  Some days & nights pass - enough so that Dorothy and the Lion can begin plotting
  their escape. I assume a minimum of a week.
Day 22 - Dorothy melts the Wicked Witch - she frees the Lion and the Winkies - they
  start off in search of the Tin Woodman
Day 23 - They find the Tin Woodman
Days 24-26 - The Winkies work "for three days and four nights" to restore
  the Tin Woodman - the party starts off in search of the Scarecrow
Day 27 - They find the Scarecrow after walking "all that day and part of the next"
Day 28 - The Scarecrow is restored
Days 28-30 - The reunited party spends "a few happy days" at the Witch's castle 
Day 31 - The party leaves for the Emerald City - night in field
Days 32-35 - The party is lost - "day by day passed away"
Day 36 - The Queen of the Field Mice suggests using the Golden Cap - the party is carried
  to the gates of the Emerald City by the Winged Monkeys
Days 37-39 - They wait for the Wizard to receive them
Day 40 - Oz receives the party at 9:04 AM - he is exposed as a humbug
Day 41 - The Scarecrow receives his brains, the Tin Woodman his heart, and the Cowardly
  Lion his courage
Days 42-44 - "For three days Dorothy heard nothing from Oz." 
Day 45 - "On the fourth day" Oz announces his plans to leave with Dorothy in
  a balloon
Days 46-48 - "It took three days" to sew the balloon together
Day 49 - Oz departs
Day 50 - Council of the party ("on the morning after the balloon had gone up")
  - they decide to visit Glinda 
Day 51 - The party leaves for Glinda's palace - night in field
Day 52 - They enter the forest of fighting trees - they enter the China Country - the
  Cowardly Lion defeats the monster spider - they cross the hill of the Hammerheads
  - Glinda sends Dorothy home

In his Oz books Baum is not always clear about the passage of time, and WIZARD is not as
tightly plotted as other books in the series.  This chronology should not be taken as
conclusive. I have had to base it in part on my own perceptions of what goes on in the story.
It is clear, though, that more days pass in WIZARD than in any other Oz book I know.

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:26:40 -0800
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97
References: <01IEY7A0YS2Q9EF4TH at delphi.com>

BCF:

The 1st edition of WONDERFUL WIZARD was printed by George M. Hill, with
Baum and Denslow underwriting the costs of production with proceeds from
their previous best-seller, FATHER GOOSE: HIS BOOK.  It comes in several
states, all of which had 24 colored plates.  There were monochrome color
illustrations on the text pages of the book, and the colors of these
pictures changed with the color of the country the story took place in. 
Gray in Kansas, blue in the Munchkin Country, green in the Emerald City
etc.  The BoW reprint reproduces these characteristics.  The second
edition, published by Bobbs-Merrill. originally called THE NEW WIZARD OF
OZ had a new cover and dropped 9 of the colore plates.  The third
edition (1913) was from Donohue.  Bobbs-Merrill was again the publisher
for the fourth and later editions (except for the WADDLE BOOK) until
1956 when Reilly & Lee published it for the first time.  There have been
numerous adaptations, abridgements, etc.  A long bibliographic entry can
be found in BIBLIOGRAPHIA OZIANA revised edition (1988) 24-45.

Steve T.

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:39:16 -0500 (EST)
From: OzBucket at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2)

Disney's Return to Oz: while it owes more to MGM than it does to Baum, it is
indeed a very somber and depressing movie overall. It did, however, have two
redeeming qualities that no one else has commented on. 1.) The claymation
sequences are beautiful to look at, and 2.) Fairuza Balk is even more so.
Okay, granted, my recent re-reading for the multi-billionth time of WW
reveals that Dorothy is far less mature than my 2 year old niece (who I find
annoyingly immature, by the way). Baum's Dorothy is a selfish little brat who
isn't above saying things like, "I don't care a bit what happens to any of
you, as long as I get what I want." Fairuza's Dorothy is much more kind and
caring, and seems almost motherly in her relationship with Jack. Fairuza, a
mature 9 (she turned 10 on the set) is a lot more likeable than Baum's
immature little girl. Frankly, while reading WW this last time, I found
myself wanting to take that little snot over my knee and beat her to a bloody
pulp. (by the way, I am starting up a babysitting service...).

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:57:29 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 2/5 & 6/97

Chris D.:
>Baum's Dorothy is a selfish little brat who
>isn't above saying things like, "I don't care a bit what happens to any of
>you, as long as I get what I want."

I don't remember Dorothy saying anything like that, and I just finished
rereading WIZARD last night. Could you give a specific reference to the
incident where it happened? It's certainly true that Dorothy is a much more
passive character in WIZARD than she becomes in later books; she reminds me
more of Betsy Bobbin (or vice versa) than her later persona. But I don't get
the feeling at all that she's a "selfish little brat"; she's a young kid
who's been ripped from the only home she's known into a very strange and
unfamiliar country, and she's thoroughly overwhelmed by it. Despite that, she
takes the best advice she gets and does what she can to get back home. If she
were really that kind of selfish brat, wouldn't she have continued to chase
the china princess?


David Hulan

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:09:38 +0000
From: Scott Olsen <ScottO1440 at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97

Re: Chris' (a.k.a. Ozbucket's) impression of Baum's Dorothy ("selfish little
brat who isn't above saying things like, 'I don't care a bit what happens to
any of you, as long as I get what I want.'")

My first thought is that this is a setup to encourage some discussion on
this point. Not only do I not recall this quote--but I've also never heard
anyone describe Dorothy in this way. Everyone's certainly entitled to their
opinion--but I'm afraid I need more substance and facts to back this up. If
this opinion is for real, then I'm sure an in-depth critique which explores
this heretofore unknown facet of Baum's main character would make
interesting, Bugle worthy, reading, to say the least.

Sincerely,

Scott Olsen

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 00:12:17 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz

Jeremy and Chris: 
I will go so far as to say that Dorothy, at least in the Baum books, is a 
little arrogant. For example, she is constantly calling ruler's attention to 
the fact that Ozma rules Oz, rules us, and rules YOU, and you had better do 
what we say... While she is technically correct, one gets the impression 
that she is being a little bit imperious. 

--Tyler Jones 

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:35:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97

Chris:
Dorothy is rather immature in _Wizard_, but I think that she is only about four years old in that story.
When she moves to Oz permanently, she is about eleven, and is much nicer.

         Nathan Mulac DeHoff
         lnvf at grove.iup.edu
         http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 01:09:01 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 2/7/97

Nathan:
It seems unlikely that Dorothy is as young as four in WIZARD; she is
certainly able to read the fairly complex sentence "Let Dorothy go to the
City of Emeralds", and the instructions on how to use the Golden Cap to
summon the winged monkeys. Granted, I could have read these when I was four,
and so probably could a number of the rest of you, but we weren't growing up
on a farm in the middle of the Kansas prairie in 1899, either. It seems
almost certain to me that Dorothy was no younger than six in WIZARD.

David Hulan

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:58:28 -0600
From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu>
Subject: Ozzy Digest

David and Scott:
Chris D.'s comments on Dorothy's apparent selfishness are not merely
conjecture.  His summary of Dorothy's attitude ("I don't care a bit what
happens to any of you, as long as I get what I want.") is a paraphrase of a
quotation from Chapter Five that describes Dorothy's response to an argument
between the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman over the relative importance of
brains and heart:

"Dorothy did not say anything, for she was puzzled to know which of her two
friends was right, and she decided if she could only get back to Kansas and
Aunt Em it did not matter so much whether the Woodman had no brains and the
Scarecrow no heart, or each got what he wanted."

Of course, this is early on in the book, before Dorothy has a chance to
develop a strong sense of loyalty to her friends.  I imagine there will be a
lot more said about Dorothy's character once the official discussion of the
book kicks off on Monday, but I'll say now that she seems in general to be a
tough, resilient, practical-minded little creature, quite a relief from the
sugary, sentimentalized heroines of so much children's literature from the
late nineteenth century (Alice excepted, of course).

Incidentally, the unexpected turn in Dorothy's thoughts in that quotation
above (the reference to a brainless Woodman and a heartless Scarecrow) is
really a very astute response to their arguments.

On Dorothy's age:  Michael Patrick Hearn, in _The Annotated Wizard of Oz_,
puts her at five or six and notes that Denslow's illustrations depict
Dorothy in clothing appropriate for that age group.

-Gordon Birrell

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:34:49 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 2/8/97

Tyler:
Dorothy is certainly assertive, at least after WIZARD. "Imperious" is
probably a little strong. The only occasion I can think of where she really
sounds imperious is with Coo-ee-oh in GLINDA.

Dave:
I'm ready to start discussing WIZARD any time. (There's already been a little
bit of it based on Chris D's insult of Dorothy.)

David Hulan

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 15:27:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97

David:
It is quite possible that Dorothy was only six at the time of _Wizard_.  This
would mean, however, that not very many years elapsed between Dorothy's first
and second visits to Oz.  We do know that Dorothy was attending school at the
time of _Dorothy and the Wizard_.


         Nathan Mulac DeHoff
         lnvf at grove.iup.edu

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 03:34:28 +0000
From: Scott Olsen <ScottO1440 at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97


Re: Tyler writes (to Jeremy and Chris) "I will go as far to say that
Dorothy, at least in the Baum books, is a little arrogant."

IMHO, "arrogant" (or "brat") may be too strong to discribe Dorothy. But how
about just saying she has "spunk"? Everyone likes spunk, right? (Well,
except for Lou Grant, right Dave?)

Sincerely,

Scott Olsen

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:18:45 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-09-97

Gordon:
I won't disagree with your characterization of Dorothy ("a tough, resilient,
practical-minded little creature,") at all. That isn't the same thing as "a
selfish brat".

Five or six I can buy for Dorothy's age (with six being more likely); four is
too young for what she seems able to do in the book. (Seven or eight seems
likelier yet, and IIRC Hearn's estimate of her age is based on assuming a
year between each of the books she appears in up to EC. For several reasons I
think they're closer together than that.)

David Hulan

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:18:40 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Discussion of WOZ
 
Might I suggest, as a compromise that I don't think would be any extra
trouble for Dave yet that would let people uninterested in the discussion of
the Book of Current Focus skip that part of the Digest easily, that we post
our book discussions, and commentary on them, separately from the rest of our
Digest posts? That way those who aren't interested in the discussion can
scroll past those posts without having to check every paragraph to see if
there's something else hiding in there.
 
A few items that struck me on my latest rereading:
 
1. When the Tin Woodman is telling his life story, he refers to his father's
death and taking care of his "old mother" until her death. While there is no
definite chronology, the implication is that it wasn't long after his
mother's death that he fell in love with the Munchkin girl, that it wasn't
long after that that the Wicked Witch enchanted his axe, and that it wasn't
long after that that he was caught in the rain and rusted. In any case, it
seems inconsistent with the theory that aging and natural death stopped in Oz
several hundred years before the time of Dorothy.
 
2. This book seems to have fewer Irrelevant Episodes than most of the series,
with the major exception being the Dainty China Country. Mostly this is
because things that could be IEs (the various obstacles in getting to the EC,
primarily) are used to characterize the travelers - particularly to show that
the Scarecrow really does have brains, and the lion courage.
 
3. I remember even as a kid being skeptical that there was enough straw in
the Scarecrow to cover Dorothy and the lion well enough to protect them from
the bees. Certainly if the relative sizes are similar to Denslow's
illustrations it seems unlikely. Even covering Dorothy seems to be stretching
it; the lion is far larger.
 
4. I remember back about a year ago on the Digest a mother commenting on the
Cowardly Lion's sneak attack on the giant spider while it was asleep, and
asking whether this is a good example for children, or whether the lion
should have waked the spider up first so it would have been a fair fight. The
only comment I recall was one from Eric Gjovaag arguing for total
non-violence in the spirit of Gandhi and King. IIRC, this exchange happened
while I was en route from California to Chicago, because I know I thought
about responding at the time and then decided that the original discussion
had happened too long before for my comments to be relevant to most readers.
 
Reading the passage again, though, brought it back to my mind, and I thought
I'd toss in my two cents' worth on the subject. Total non-violence is usually
a worthy approach in human affairs, though it does require a willingness to
die by the violence of others (as happened to both Gandhi and King). When
you're dealing with a wild animal, however, whose only interest in you is as
dinner, total non-violence is tantamount to suicide. (Unless, in the case of
the animals in the forest in question, they deserted the forest - but in that
case they'd probably starve.)
 
As for the question of a "fair fight", that's a whole concept that's never
made much sense to me, unless you're talking about something like a formal
boxing match, with rules and officials to enforce them. People and animals
fight for two reasons. One is to try to impose their will by force on someone
they think is weaker (which will may be to eat the other one). That kind of
fight is inherently unfair, and never justifiable. The other is to defend
themselves or someone else against someone who is trying to impose their will
by force on someone they think is weaker. Fighting for that reason, the most
efficient way of winning the fight is justified. Based on that, I think the
lion's action in beheading the spider while it was asleep was one of only two
rational choices, the other of which was to pass through the forest as fast
as possible and avoid the whole issue. Neither passive resistance nor a "fair
fight" makes any sense at all in the circumstances as described.
 
I'm very interested in what other people will have to say about the first
book in the series.
 
David Hulan

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:44:11 -0500 (EST)
From: OzBucket at aol.com
Subject: Oz (is there any other subject, really?)
 
I am probably a couple of days behind already. The last Digest I read was
already at least a day old, and I probably have a couple more to look at as
soon as I check my mail. Anyway, I was shocked and horrified to learn that no
one else has read WWoO [ That's _Wonderful Wizard_ -- not _Wicked Witch_ -- 
_of Oz_  -- Dave :) ] and remembered Dorothy to any degree. Throughout the
book she comes across as an immature little baby. I think I had also
forgotten until re-reading the book later, so it isn't so big a deal that you
guys forgot. Any re-reading of even a brief section will instantly tap your
memory. Pick any page at random. But to try to find one of the several places
where a quote like that is made, I have just flipped to page 61 of the BoW
version (for those of you who, like me, have started with mostly Del Rey and
don't have that page # in the same place, it is Chapter V, The Rescue of the
TM). But this is not an isolated quote. I think re-reading pretty much any
page will have you wanting to give this brat a spanking. Unless, of course, I
am assuming Dorothy to be several years older than she is. I can accept a lot
more immaturity from an infant than I can from a Kindergartener. In fact, the
one and ONLY time when she seems to think of anyone besides herself is when
her personal dog is in danger from the Lion. Had it been someone else's dog,
I think she'd have been far less quick to show any concern at all. Okay,
Rinny also reminds me of the fact that she fed the Lion while a prisoner of
the Witch. Of course, there again, it was for the sake of her own need for a
friend, but it was something. My point was that Fairuza Balk's character was
CONSIDERABLY more mature than Baum's. I'd have to say that, at the age of 2,
my niece was, too. Again, a 2-year old has more right to be immature than an
older child. I don't think this was one of the books that actually GAVE her
exact age, and I do not think Denslow asked before drawing her. If RtO is
supposed to take place in 1899, when did she make her FIRST trip to Oz?
(Yeah, I know, it was 1939...). I am willing to accept the idea that there
were several years between these two incidents (Ummm... No, I don't mean
that. RtO is Disney, not HACC. Having just re-read Dorothy & Wizard, I have
to say that she seems a lot more mature here, too. But, boy, is the Wizard a
meanie! But not as rude and sharp-tongued as our pals seem to be in Land... I
am getting way ahead of the focus book. I will stop it and wait for their
turns to come up). FWIW, I don't enjoy these early Oz books nearly as much as
most of the later ones. I tend to assume that Baum hadn't expected to write
any more about Oz, so didn't bother to focus on any clear vision of the
place.

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 01:13:04 -0500 (EST)
From: RMorris306 at aol.com
Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests
 
Dave Hardenbrook wrote:
 
<<Well some people on the Digest who are not ready to talk about
_Wizard_privately made their opinions known, therefore I am moving the start
of the offical discussion up a week.  I want to emphasize that I want you all
to express your opinions and to let me know when you don't like what I'm
doing on the Digest.>>
 
  And here I just reread the book and was about to launch into an involved
discussion...which, now that it's after midnight, I'm just as happy to
postpone. But to touch on a couple of topics that have already been discussed
at some length...
 
DOROTHY'S PERSONALITY: I certainly don't see her as the spoiled brat one or
two people have. She clearly cares about her dog, Toto, and her three
companions, often crying for them and always doing everything she can to help
them. She even has sympathy for strangers who've given her reason to dislike
them (like the Wizard and the Winged Monkeys). No, as far as I'm concerned,
she's a very admirable little girl.
 
DOROTHY'S AGE: I'm inclined to think that she's a lot older than, as one
Ozian suggested, four. Even Michael Patrick Hearn's estimate of 5 or 6 seems
a bit on the young side, given that she can read complex sentences, and take
care of herself and her dog (something even most 7- year-olds would have
trouble doing...a matter I had to consider in some detail in co-breeding a
litter of puppies and giving some serious thought to what families, all of
whose adult members were often at work all day, to sell them to).

     Even compressing the years between publication of the books and
suggesting that her time in Oz slowed down her aging process does require
that she be several years younger than her final age of 11, though. My best
guess is that she's around 8 (the estimate of, among others, Rob Roy McVeigh)
at the time of WIZARD. Which isn't even inconsistent with Hearn's observation
that Denslow depicts her wearing a dress more appropriate to a 5- or
6-year-old. Baum makes it clear that her family isn't very well off and that
she had only two dresses, both of which were relatively old. If the dress
still fits her after two years, it could be because the Gales originally
bought a dress slightly too big so she'd grow into it, and/or let out the
seams to enlarge it as she grew older...both common practices in buying
clothes for children, not necessarily restricted to the poorest families.
 
A MARKET QUESTION: In their biography of W.W. Denslow, Douglas G. Greene and
Michael Patick Hearn maintains that THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ has sold more
copies than any other children's book written by an American. Is this
documented? Is it undisputed that it's sold more copies than THE ADVENTURES
OF HUCKLEBERRY FINN or THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD or THE POKY LITTLE PUPPY
or THE CAT IN THE HAT, all of which have been the subject of similar claims? 
 
FUTURE DISCUSSIONS: Since the consensus seems to be that we should start with
WIZARD and cover the books in order, I also think we should stick to the FF,
and not interpolate Baum's other books...not even SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND,
as has been suggested. Even if they do introduce characters who later turn up
in Oz, there's no more reason for including them than there is for, say, THE
MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO or JOHN DOUGH AND THE CHERUB. Yes, SKY ISLAND was one
of Baum's best fantasies, but so were THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW and QUEEN
ZIXI OF IX, and on the flip side I'd say THE SEA FAIRIES was one of Baum's
worst fantasies. (Maybe if he'd done SKY ISLAND first, Reilly & Lee might
have had more success in selling Baum's attempts to move his fantasies
outsize Oz, and even gone on to publish RINKITINK in its original, non-Oz
form.) 

       Unless, indeed, we truly do go ahead and try to discuss *all* of
Baum's books, or rather all his children's fantasies (does anyone really
*want* to track down AUNT JANE'S NIECES and its sequels? I didn't think so).
And, aside from our already skipping THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO (which, at
least in its original incarnation as A NEW WONDERLAND, predated WIZARD), most
of us would have a hard time indeed tracking down copies of DOT AND TOT IN
MERRYLAND...and, I fear, an even harder time getting through it (since, in my
far-from-exclusive opinion, it made THE SEA FAIRIES read like THE LOST
PRINCESS OF OZ by comparison). No, let's do the FF! In order! And I can
hardly wait...
 
 
Rich Morrissey

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:45:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97
 
David:
It seems odd that both of Nick Chopper's parents died, but Nick himself did
not, even when he was cut to pieces.  If death ended between the death of
Nick's parents and the enchantment of his axe, it might explain it, but I don't
know for sure.
 
I agree that it was intelligent for the lion to kill the spider while it slept.
The lion generally makes fairly intelligent choices, which he considers to be
cowardly.
 
Rich:
The Munchkins are described as midgets in _Wizard_, and Denslow also draws the
Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman as about the same height as Dorothy.  In _Dorothy
and the Wizard_, the Munchkin that Zeb fights is short.  After this book,
however, I do not recall any mention of the Munchkins being any shorter than
any other people.  The Ozurians, for instance, are described as tall.  A recent
Oz Gazette suggests that Baum underestimated the size of the Munchkins.
Another possibility is that the Wicked Witches somehow shrank many of the
people of Oz (not just the Munchkins, as Locasta and the people of the Emerald
City are also described as diminutive).  Any other thoughts on the heights of
Ozites?
 
I was the one who suggested that Dorothy was four years old in _Wizard_, but I
agree that this was actually quite unlikely.  I used this age to allow a wide
space of time in between this book and _Ozma_, which was written several years
later.
 
I don't know if _Wizard_ sold more copies than any other children's book, but
it was considerably older than some of the books that you mentioned, and had
more time in which to be sold.  _Huckleberry Finn_ was older than _Wizard_, but
I wouldn't really consider _Huckleberry Finn_ to be a children's book.
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        "I found out folks don't really care much for the truth."  -The Truth
        Teller

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:34:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at yu1.yu.edu>
Subject: Characterization of Dorothy
 
1) Chris et. al., Dorothy in _Wizard_ never struck me as particularly
selfish; practical, yes, but selflessness in the face of starvation is a
fool's virtue.  Even Dorothy's constant worrying about getting home
doesn't strike me as a fault; if memory serves me correctly (I haven't
run across the relevant quote yet in my agonizingly slow rereading yet),
she was worried about the impact of her disappearance on Uncle Henry and
Aunt Em, financially as well as emotionally.  If Dorothy had been truly
selfish, she would have taken advantage of her accidental killing of
Gingemma and, duplicating what Oscar Diggs did, become Queen (or perhaps
Witch) of the East.
 
3) David, I was under the impression that Oz didn't become deathless until
a few years after Ozma came to power.  As late as _Little Wizard Stories
of Oz_, the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger predict (wrongfully) that
they will die relatively soon.
 
5) Rich, I always assumed that only the three little men who greeted
Dorothy were superlatively short.  Come to think of it, Gingemma probably
was as well, considering that Dorothy wore her Shoes.  The other Munchkins
I always assumed were more normal sized, at best being a little shorter
than people in the rest of Oz.  I don't recall any reference to Munchkins
in general being smaller than other Ozites.
 
Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman
adelman at yu1.yu.edu

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:56:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97
 
Aaron:
Near the end of the book, Dorothy informs Glinda that Aunt Em and Uncle Henry
will probably "put on mourning," which they would not be able to afford.  BTW,
in _Dorothy and the Wizard_, Em and Henry really do "put on mourning."
 
There was never really any reference to all of the Munchkins being short.
Unfortunately, the MGM movie made the Munchkins short, and, since then, the
word "Munchkin" has often been used as the equivalent of "little person." This
annoys me, and it probably would annoy the Munchkins if they knew of it.
 
Cheeriobed: What's all this about my people being midgets?
Realbad: I'm a Munchkin, and I'm over six feet tall.
Vaga: So what?  I'm a Munchkin, too, and I'm eight feet tall.
 
As for the Silver Shoes, it might have been that the WWE was diminutive (or
that she just had small feet), or it may have been that the Shoes would
automatically fit anyone's feet.
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        "Oz?  Is that a place or a tonic?"  -Humpy
        (Yes, it's an old quote, but I'm running out of good quotes.  Maybe
        people could send me their favorite quotes.)

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:11:00 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Dorothy and her age:
On the HACC, I have _Wizard_ taking place in 1899 and _Emerald City_
taking place in 1905. IMHO, I have squeezed them as close together as I
possibly can. Currently, I am assuming that Dorothy was six at the time of
her first trip to Oz and that her visits slowed her aging down by one year.
It is possible to assume that she was seven and that her visits slowed her 
aging down by TWO years, but others (such as David Hulan) have remarked
that this would have slwoed down her aging by a great deal and that
people would have noticed.
 
YOu will notice that I am assuming Dorothy to be physically eleven by the
time she moves to Oz. THis is due to the fact that Baum wrote that Dorothy 
was one year older than Trot and that Trot said "me too" when Prince
Philador said he has stayed at the age of 10 for "ever so long". All this
means, though, is that Trot has also stopped her aging. What if Trot was
actually 11? Then Dorothy could be 12 (13 chronologically) and hence she
could be seven at the time of _Wizard_.
 
Someone once remarked that a girl growing up on a farm in the late 19th
century would be able to take care of herself a little better than
someone her own age in this time.
 
David again:
THe conventional wisdom is that all death and aging stopped cold when
Lurline did her thing so long ago. I do not buy this, though, as there is
plenty of evidence that aging and death happened afterwards. My MOPPeT is
that things happened in a way described by Hearn and in _Oz and the Three
Witches_. That is, that the enchantment was worked in order to create the
perfect land upon the ascension of Ozma. THe fact that Ozma was kidnapped
and transformed thre the plan a little off kilter.
 
I also like Aaron's idea of magical "hoptspots". That way, certain parts of
the country would become enchanted faster than others and even certain parts
of the enchantment would come to fuition before others. Using this, we can
easily explain why some people died and some did not. Also, certain people
may have been more or less susceptible to the enchantment that others, at
least before Ozma.
 
Nathan:
IIRC, it was only in the first book that so many people were described as
small. Either the WWE shrank some of her subjects or perhaps Baum wrote
that the people were the same size as Dorothy to appeal to children.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:59:10 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Wizard of Oz Discussion
 
Chris D.:
 >I was shocked and horrified to learn that no
>one else has read WWoO [ That's _Wonderful Wizard_ -- not _Wicked Witch_ -- 
>_of Oz_  -- Dave :) ] and remembered Dorothy to any degree.
 
I don't think the question is whether we _remembered_ Dorothy so much as the
impression particular statements by and about Dorothy made on us vs.
yourself. I'll admit, though, that it's relatively difficult to go back to
WIZARD and read Dorothy's character without its being influenced by what I've
learned about her in the dozen or so later books where she has a major role.
 
However, there is _never_ a point in the book where Dorothy does or says
anything that I think deserves a spanking. If you do, then I hope you don't
have much to do with kindergarteners - or for that matter, kids up through
fourth grade or so.
 
>In fact, the one and ONLY time when she seems to think of anyone besides herself is when
>her personal dog is in danger from the Lion.
 
What about when the Scarecrow is stranded on the pole in the river, and she
appeals to the stork to rescue him? What about when she organizes the Winkies
to find the Tin Woodman and Scarecrow after she liquidates the WWW? What
about when she doesn't chase the china princess after she's asked to stay
away?
 
But yes, I'll agree that Fairuza Balk's character in RtO was considerably
more mature than Dorothy in WIZARD. This is reasonable; presumably she's
based on Dorothy's character in OZMA, which was certainly more mature than it
was in WIZARD. (Although for whatever reason, her diction was a lot worse.)
 
(And I'll also agree that with the exception of OZMA, I like the early Oz
books less than most of Baum's later ones.)
 
Jeremy:
The question of whether the time between Nick Chopper's mother's death and
Dorothy's arrival in Oz was 3 years or 5 years or even 20 years is certainly
open to question. That it would be as much as 700 years (which is one theory
that's fairly popular, based on information in YELLOW KNIGHT) seems highly
unlikely.
 
>Your scathing review of `Irrelevant Episodes' is, I feel,
>unwarranted, as they add texture to the Oz series (when not
>overdone);
 
Huh? All I said about IEs was " This book seems to have fewer Irrelevant
Episodes than most of the series,
with the major exception being the Dainty China Country. Mostly this is
because things that could be IEs (the various obstacles in getting to the EC,
primarily) are used to characterize the travelers - particularly to show that
the Scarecrow really does have brains, and the lion courage." This is a
"scathing review"? I've nothing against IEs in moderation; there's really
only one left in the published version of GLASS CAT, but there were three
more that had to be cut out to get it down to publishable length. EUREKA has
several, and so does PROF. WOGGLE-BUG. I'll admit that books like DOTWIZ,
ROAD, and EC, which are dominated by IEs, don't hold up as well, but a few
are no problem. I was only observing, not objecting.
 
Nathan:
As I've said before, MOPPeT is that the enchantment on the Tin Woodman's axe
was able to make it cut him, but not to kill him or make him bleed badly.
Otherwise, as you say, he could not have survived being cut up unless the
enchantment of deathlessness had already taken effect in Oz. We know for a
fact that it hadn't with animals, and have little reason to believe that it
had with humans.
 
Aaron:
I agree with you that deathlessness only became common in Oz after Ozma's
accession, though some individuals and groups might have achieved it through
other means than Lurline's enchantment. However, this view is not by any
means universal among Oz scholars. (I've never been able to persuade Robin
Hess, for one.)
 
David Hulan

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:03:46 -0500 (EST)
From: OzBucket at aol.com
Subject: Oz
 
On the issue of Dorothy: Come on, people! I never meant to insult Dorothy in
any way. Are you honestly arguing that she seems more mature in Wonderful
Wizard than Fairuza's portrayal? I made a simple statement of fact, and it
has been blown way out of proportion. And agreed, when Dorothy returns in
later books, she is a LOT more mature than that first time. I am led to
wonder now, how many years actually passed. Baum was very bad about
identifying the year events took place (hence my question about THE
earthquake). We know that W.Wizard had to take place before it was written
(unless Baum was actually Nostradamus in disguise), so I figure 1899 is safe.
The next date we have for certain is not until Queer Visitors (3rd BOOK),
which is 1904. She may well have aged a full 4+ years since Wizard! And how
much later than 1904 was Ozma?

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:38:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97
 
Munchkin height: Doesn't Baum say something about their being about 
Dorothy's height, or the height of a child?
 
--Robin O.

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:31:51 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Dorothy: 
Considering that Dorothy was violently ripped away from her home, she 
acted rather well. 
 
--Tyler Jones 

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:42:25 +0000
From: Scott Olsen <ScottO1440 at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 & 2-12-97
 
 
BCF discussion:
 
Hopefully it's not too early, but I think it's interesting to note that
_Wizard_ is one of Baum's few children's books that has a message or moral
(even though he states in the introduction that it does not).
 
Sincerely,
 
Scott Olsen

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:42:38 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97
 
Tyler:
I don't think it's that hard to squeeze the time between WIZARD and EMERALD
CITY to less than six years. My own timeline is WIZARD, summer of 1899; LAND,
sometime in 1900; OZMA, autumn of 1901; DOTWIZ, spring of 1902; ROAD, summer
of 1902; EMERALD CITY, sometime, probably early autumn, in 1903. I know of
nothing in the canon that would make these dates implausible (though they
might create some difficulty with some of the non-FF books), and there are
several things in their favor. This allows Dorothy to be seven in WIZARD
without any age-compression effect at all. 
 
It's certainly possible that Trot's "me too" in GIANT HORSE simply meant
she'd stopped her aging and not that she'd stopped it at 10, as Philador had.
But since Betsy is a year older than Dorothy, if Trot is 11, Dorothy would be
12 and Betsy 13. She doesn't look it in the illustrations, nor act it in any
of the books where she appears, so that seems implausible. Based on their
actions, it's likelier that Trot (who's often referred to as "Tiny Trot") is
younger than 10 than older.
 
>IIRC, it was only in the first book that so many people were described as small.
 
There was the Munchkin that Zeb wrestled and boxed with in DOTWIZ. He's
described as hardly coming to Zeb's shoulder. Of course, we don't know how
tall Zeb is, or even how old; he seems to be quite strong and capable, and I
wouldn't be surprised if he's 15 or 16 and as tall as a normal grown man.
 
David Hulan

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:04:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-13-97
 
Robin:
Baum does state that the Munchkins who first approached Dorothy (as well as the
GWN, IIRC) were about the same height as Dorothy.
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:13:28 -0500
From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97
 
Chris:
 
Dorothy compares rather well with my daughter of similar age--who can get
"the gimmee's" really bad! (Down girl! Down! Down!) Dorothy seems so
non-greedy, Baum states in "Emerald City" that she never brought home any
jewels (or apparently anything else) from Oz with her. Either that, or any
fairyland stuff she picked up did not survive the trip to Kansas.
 
Melody Grandy

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:12:20 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Chris:
I don't think that anyone ever said that the Dorothy in _Wizard_ showed a
great deal of maturity, especially more so than Fairuza. THe consensus
seems to be that Dorothy acted reasonably well considering her age and
situation, and certainly was not bratty.
 
Nathan:
I believe Baum himself (or one of his characters) said that while people
could no longer die in Oz, they can still be destroyed.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:40:29 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-13-97
 
Chris D.:
You didn't mean to insult Dorothy in any way? I hope, then, that you never
decide to insult me in any way; calling someone "a selfish little brat," or
saying "I think re-reading pretty much any
page will have you wanting to give this brat a spanking," is much more of an
insult than I'd find acceptable. It's not your simple statement of fact that
Fairuza's portrayal in RtO is more mature than Dorothy's in WIZARD - which I
agree with - that ruffled a lot of feathers.
 
David Hulan

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:07:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "John N. White" <jnw at vnet.net>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> writes:
> It is possible to assume that she was seven and that her visits slowed her 
> aging down by TWO years, but others (such as David Hulan) have remarked 
> that this would have slwoed down her aging by a great deal and that 
> people would have noticed. 
 
Well, suppose Dorothy didn't age at all after her first visit in WIZARD?
Would there be any inconsistency between this and any of the books?
People would notice, of course, but they may have refrained from telling
Dorothy that she was a little runt.  People in Oz might not notice, since
they had stopped aging too.  Baum himself would have noticed, but
there is no reason why he would explicitly mention this in his book.
Actually, he *did* say things like Dorothy "seemed just the same sweet
little girl she had been when first she came to this delightful fairyland".
That might be interpreted as meaning Dorothy hadn't aged since WIZARD.
 
> I also like Aaron's idea of magical "hoptspots". ...  Also, certain people 
> may have been more or less susceptible to the enchantment that others,
> at least before Ozma. 
 
The enchantment may have been like a computer program -- taking a long
time to get all the parts running, and then another long time to get the
bugs out.  Also, being a fairy enchantment it may have helped good people
before it did anything for bad people.  I recall Baum saying somewhere
that even though good people never died, bad people could still be put
to death.
 
-- 
jnw at vnet.net   (John N. White)

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:22:06 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
David:
Indeed, if only the FF are considered, the first six could be squeezed
quite tight, but that runs into problems with some of the non-FF.
 
John:
Dorothy must have aged at least a little after _Wizard_, since she was in
our world for long periods of time, certainly time enough for the semi-Oz
enchantment to stop having any effect. Her aging would probably have slowed
some, though, which is why I have the one-year thing, and possibly two.
 
If two years of age-slowing seems reasonable, then some of the pressure could 
be relieved in the timeline of the first six of the FF.
 
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:50:26 -0500 (EST)
From: DIXNAM at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest 2-14-97
 
Chris/OzBucket;
 
Come on, "fess up".  Weren't those"Dorothy is a brat" comments, and saying
your  two year old niece is more mature, etc. just your way to "yank our
collective chains" and stir up a little controversy??  (A two year old not
going through the "terrible" stage is truly a remarkable child!!)
 
Dick

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 11:17:26 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
CHRIS' REMARKS ON DOROTHY:
FWIW, I think when Dorothy said "I don't care about *you* -- I just care
that I get what *I* want" (or words to that effect), she was just expressing
raw frustration at her situation, being so far from home (and the Scarecrow
and Tin Woodman's petty bickering wasn't helping matters any).
 
 
                             -- Dave

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 06:59:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "John N. White" <jnw at vnet.net>
Subject: Oz
 
Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> writes:
> Dorothy must have aged at least a little after _Wizard_, since she was in
> our world for long periods of time, certainly time enough for the semi-Oz
> enchantment to stop having any effect.
 
For all we know her metabolism was altered so that her growth was halted
PERMANENTLY.  Of course, she clearly is younger than 11 in WIZARD and
OZMA, so some aging occurred between then and E. CITY.  But suppose that
in WIZARD Dorothy is 7, and her growth is halted.  Then the events in
OZMA occur 6 years later, and Dorothy is still physically 7.  By that
time everyone (in the US) is frantic that this 13 year old girl still
looks like she is 7, and Dorothy is feeling the pressure to grow older.
So in OZMA she returns to Oz wanting to grow older, and her growth restarts.
Then in E. CITY (4 years later) Ozma asks Dorothy to halt her growth again.
 
My main point is that saying "people would have noticed" is no argument
since we have absolutely no evidence that people didn't notice.
-- 
jnw at vnet.net   (John N. White)

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:11:36 -0500 (EST)
From: JOdel at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97
 
On dwarfish Munchkins:
Gingema was a dwarf herself. Dwarfism is not uncommon in Oz, as can be seen
by the number of other child-sized characters encountered throughout the FF.
She did not want normal-sized people around her, towering over her. So she
cast an overlay spell that prevented anyone living within a day's travel or
so from her personal stomping ground from growing any taller than herself.
After a generation she effectively had produced a district populated by dwarfed
Munchkins. Once she was destroyed, the spell ended. Since there had been no
actual genetic changes made, any child thereafter who chose to grow up grew
to normal height.

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:31:32 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
John:
There may be something in what you say. The early part of the Baum line on
the HACC really needs to be "un-squeezed" by a year or two, as well as
making Dorothy about 7, which I feel is an appropriate age for her. The
only obstacle was the fact that people would have noticed that she was
not growing up, and as you say that may not really be a problem after all.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:19:16 -0500 (EST)
From: RMorris306 at aol.com
Subject: THE WIZARD OF OZ and other Digest comments
 
 
David Hulan wrote:
 
<<I agree with you that HUCKLEBERRY FINN, though often marketed to children,
isn't really a children's book. Even TOM SAWYER, which is more of a
children's book than its sequel, is marginal.>>
 
     Well, Mark Twain himself said as much, though in a statement whose
sarcasm is often missed ("I wrote the books exclusively for adults...the idea
of either TOM SAWYER or HUCKLEBERRY FINN falling into the hands of a child
fills me with horror," or some such). My copy of WIZARD is the Schocken
edition edited by Hearn, which also includes a number of critical essays on
it and the later Oz books...and, after rereading it for the discussion, I
reread some of the articles. Some of them shed an interesting light on the
children's books of the day (including recommendations of writers like
Dickens, who almost certainly wasn't writing for children even to the limited
extent Twain sometimes was). I'll certainly grant that the other books I
mentioned, like THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD, weren't around as long as
WIZARD and may not have sold as many total copies (though, since they were
much smaller and cheaper, I suspect they *sold* more copies in their day and
since than a big, relatively expensive book like WIZARD). But what about two
other books even older than WIZARD that I inexplicably forgot last time,
TREASURE ISLAND and LITTLE WOMEN? I wouldn't be surprised if either or both
has outsold WIZARD, and both were children's books written by Americans.
(Come to think of it, hasn't it also been claimed that the original Mother
Goose came from Boston?)
 
<<The question of whether the time between Nick Chopper's mother's death and
Dorothy's arrival in Oz was 3 years or 5 years or even 20 years is certainly
open to question. That it would be as much as 700 years (which is one theory
that's fairly popular, based on information in YELLOW KNIGHT) seems highly
unlikely.>>
 
     Impossible, if one credits the statement Nick makes in WIZARD to the
effect that his father had once visited the Emerald City. Since the EC had
only been built in the last 20 or so years by the Wizard, that indicates that
it hadn't been too many years since he died.
 
<<There was the Munchkin that Zeb wrestled and boxed with in DOTWIZ. He's
described as hardly coming to Zeb's shoulder. Of course, we don't know how
tall Zeb is, or even how old; he seems to be quite strong and capable, and I
wouldn't be surprised if he's 15 or 16 and as tall as a normal grown man.>>
 
     Actually, DOTWIZ , even more than WIZARD, was a book in which Baum
remembered the Munchkins, and only the Munchkins (only *some* Munchkins, at
that...even the movie had the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman as normal-sized men)
as being midgets. But, even in WIZARD, I never got the impression that people
in other parts of Oz were supposed to be unusually short. Some people in the
Emerald City were so described, but some weren't (I'm pretty sure the Soldier
with the Green Whiskers was consistently described as a tall man), so I'd say
the Guardian of the Gates just *happened* to be a short man... just as the
Wizard (who wasn't native to Oz) was.
 
And now...THE (WONDERFUL) WIZARD OF OZ!
 
      It's always hard to reread an acknowledged classic, especially one with
as many sequels as THE WIZARD OF OZ had. Yet in a way it had more in common
with Baum's non-Oz fantasies than it did with the later Oz books...just as in
QUEEN ZIXI or THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO or THE MASTER KEY, Baum was telling a
complete story about original and new characters that (by all accounts) he
never intended to use again. As far as I know, this was the only time he, due
to incredible demand, changed his mind and did decide to return to his
characters. Unless I miss my guess, even in THE SEA FAIRIES (Baum's only
other children's fantasy that became a series) Baum meant to continue Trot's
adventures by the time he finished the book...although, of course, by that
time he was writing more series than just Oz for other markets. 

     The Oz of this book, before Ozma's accession, is definitely a different
place than it later became...indeed, as I think David has noted that the Oz
we know had more in common with the original Mo (a/k/a Phunnyland) than with
the Oz of WIZARD. It's literally full of monstrous animals, most of them as
(apparently) mute as Toto...the Kalidahs, the wildcat, the Wicked Witch's
wolves, crows and bees, the giant spider, even the Winged Monkeys and (very
briefly) the Cowardly Lion before they become Dorothy'd friends. Clearly
whatever immortality affects Oz people didn't then (and may never have)
applied to animals, since many of them die (underscoring the fact that the
Cowardly Lion isn't a genuine coward; since he several times places his life
in danger to protect his friends). The only ones who talk, besides the
ultimately-friendly Lion and Monkeys, are the Queen of the Field Mice, the
leader of the Witch's wolves, and the old crow who befriends the
Scarecrow...who, I trust, was *not* one of those he later killed. Indeed,
s/he definitely wasn't if we're to believe Volkov, who brought him (or, to
Volkov, her) back in later books. Volkov called her Kaggi-Karr; I wonder if
Oz fandom as a whole could adopt that name for her (him) as it did those of
Gingemma and Bastinida?

 It's also interesting, given Baum's general lack of romantic subplots (with
most of those there were, like those in TIK-TOK and SCARECROW, taken from Oz
plots Baum originally developed for other media), to find no less than two in
his first Oz book. The story of Gayelette and Quelala is a mere interlude,
with neither character actually appearing in the book nor interacting with
its major characters. (Is it just me, or does the relationship parallel many
unorthodox pairings through history of powerful women and younger but
handsome men? I can't even help but be reminded of Madonna and Carlos
Leon...) But the doomed romance of Nick Chopper and Nimmee Aimee (if I can be
forgiven for using the names not given in this book but in later ones) was
rather surprising, involving a major character in the novel who fails to do
anything for her until Baum returned to the plot (again, by reader demand) in
TIN WOODMAN. (Actually, from the standpoint of this book alone, there was no
reason to assume he *wouldn't* have sent for her once he became established
as Emperor of the Winkies. By the time Baum returned to him in LAND, he may
simply have forgotten he'd left his fiancee behind.)

       The librarian once quoted by Martin Gardner to the effect that the Oz
books "had a cowardly approach to life" might have been thinking mostly of
the Cowardly Lion, and his dispatching of the giant spider (even *after* he
was given courage by the Wizard) in its sleep. But I have to concur with
David Hulan that this was one case where discretion was the better part of
valor, especially since none of the other jungle animals was brave enough
even to investigate the monster.

       In retrospect, perhaps the fame of THE WIZARD OF OZ may have been owed
as much to the Broadway musical (and, later, to the MGM movie) than to the
book itself. But it's still a delightful and solid book, which reportedly
kept the decidedly adult Samuel Goldwyn fascinated when one of his readers
suggested it for a movie...and the rest was history!
 
Rich Morrissey

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:11:31 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-16-97
 
John W.:
It seems unlikely that Dorothy's aging was halted when she went to Oz in
WIZARD; the Wizard's aging wasn't halted while he was in Oz, so it seems
pretty clear that as a minimum, the aging of mortals wasn't stopped against
their wills before Ozma's accession. (Whether Ozites' aging stopped
completely, happened only when they willed it, or stopped only when they
willed it is one of those areas where the books seem ambiguous.)
 
And while it's true that we don't -know- that Dorothy's lack of aging in
Kansas wasn't noticed, Uncle Henry and Aunt Em do a fair amount of
soul-searching about Dorothy in EC, and if she were seriously physically
retarded you'd think that would have been on their minds. And that Baum would
have mentioned it too.
 
David Hulan

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:33:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97
 
Rich:
Maybe the Guardian of the Gates grew up in the part of the Munchkin Country
where Dorothy's house landed.  This would explain his shortness.  As for the
Soldier, we know his weight (125 pounds in _Wonder City_), and are never given
an exact figure for his height, but I believe that he has been described as
tall.  Actually, the Tin Woodman might be even taller than the Soldier, since,
in _Ozoplaning_, when the party of the Tin Man, the Soldier, and Jellia met the
Stratovanians, these people were described as being "taller than even the Tin
Woodman." (I don't remember the exact line.)
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:38:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "John N. White" <jnw at vnet.net>
Subject: Oz
 
DavidXOE at aol.com writes:
> It seems unlikely that Dorothy's aging was halted when she went to Oz in
> WIZARD; the Wizard's aging wasn't halted while he was in Oz,
 
The Enchantment seemed to be just getting going about the time Dorothy
arrived, and the Wizard had already aged by then.
 
In fact, Lurline and her band may have been hanging around at that time,
although they didn't show themselves.  Dorothy's house could not have
survived the fall without some magical assistance, and its falling
on one of the two worst wicked witches is just too improbable -- unless
someone arranged for it to do so.
 
> (Whether Ozites' aging stopped completely, happened only when they
> willed it, or stopped only when they willed it is one of those areas
> where the books seem ambiguous.)
 
The books don't seem ambiguous to me.  Baum clearly states that all
aging had stopped.  Period.  It is only later that the Ozites discover
that they can restart it if they want.
 
> And while it's true that we don't -know- that Dorothy's lack of aging in
> Kansas wasn't noticed, Uncle Henry and Aunt Em do a fair amount of
> soul-searching about Dorothy in EC, and if she were seriously physically
> retarded you'd think that would have been on their minds.
 
It may have been on their minds, but they may not have mentioned it to
Dorothy to avoid hurting her feelings and making her feel inadequate,
and Dorothy was Baum's informant.
 
> And that Baum would have mentioned it too.
 
He did.  He wasn't so blunt as to call her "seriously physically retarded",
but he did say things like Dorothy "seemed just the same sweet little girl
she had been when first she came to this delightful fairyland".
Baum obviously knew how to say these things diplomatically.
 
-- 
jnw at vnet.net   (John N. White)

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:40:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TWO DAYS OZ GROWLS
 
WOZ - There has been so much discussion of Dorothy's age.  Looking at p.11 (on
the porch behind Uncle Henry) and p.28 (surrounded by Munchkins) of my edition
she could be as old as 8 in the former and as young as 4 in the latter.  I guess
we will just have to blame Denslow for this confusion.  Does anyone know if the
publisher let Baum approve the drawings for his book.  I'm told most modern
authors don't get that courtesy.  
 
I noticed on p. 41 that the Yellow Brick Road is in bad shape.  The Munchkins
aren't paying their taxes?  Is there an explanation for this in the FF?
 
I noticed on p.114 that the children were buying things with green pennies. Eric
had a whole article on means of exchange in Oz, in the Bugle recently.   
 
p. 217 It is interesting that Baum chose to have the Lion's tail destroy a
church.  It makes me wonder how Baum felt about churches.  
 
Speaking of destruction, I am afraid the thing I noticed most in the book, not
having read it for 30 years, was the unrelenting slaughter.  To enumerate:
 
p. 21 One Witch (East), crushed to death - by house
p. 72 Two Kalidahs, smashed on rocks - by Woodman
p. 92 One wildcat, hacked to death - by Woodman
p. 136 40 Wolves, likewise - by Woodman 
p. 138 40 Crows, necks broken - by Scarecrow
p. 139 One swarm bees, stingers broken - by Woodman
p. 150 One Witch (West), disolved - by Dorothy
p. 221 One giant spider, decapitated - by Lion
 
It is clear from the above that the Woodman is the real killing machine of the
quartet, but all of them are involved in the slaughter.  This book certainly
borrows from the tradition of grim and Grimm fairy tales in this regard.  And
this from someone who is so "kind and soft-hearted" he couldn't handle military
school?  This is another demonstration of someone's dark side, where a person
expresses sublimated agression in some socially acceptable way, such as in a
fantasy.  It is also interesting to note that our "kind and soft-hearted" author
chose violence as a way of solving his characters problems. I have the feeling
that he chose other means in later books.  
 
Busily, Bear  (:<)

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:37:40 -0800
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97
 
> From: RMorris306 at aol.com
> And now...THE (WONDERFUL) WIZARD OF OZ!
 
> the old crow who befriends the
> Scarecrow...who, I trust, was *not* one of those he later killed. 
 
Certainly not, it was a Munchkin crow, not a Winkie one.
 
> Indeed, s/he definitely wasn't if we're to believe Volkov, who brought him 
> (or, to
> Volkov, her) back in later books. Volkov called her Kaggi-Karr; I wonder if
> Oz fandom as a whole could adopt that name for her (him) as it did those of
> Gingemma and Bastinida?
 
I am not sure we have.  I, for one, only use those names for Volkov's
characters, never for Baum's.
 
> But the doomed romance of Nick Chopper and Nimmee Aimee (if I can be
> forgiven for using the names not given in this book but in later ones) was
> rather surprising, involving a major character in the novel who fails to do
> anything for her until Baum returned to the plot (again, by reader demand) in
> TIN WOODMAN. (Actually, from the standpoint of this book alone, there was no
> reason to assume he *wouldn't* have sent for her once he became established
> as Emperor of the Winkies. By the time Baum returned to him in LAND, he may
> simply have forgotten he'd left his fiancee behind.)
 
He certainly does not mention that possibility in WWOO.
 
>        In retrospect, perhaps the fame of THE WIZARD OF OZ may have been owed
> as much to the Broadway musical (and, later, to the MGM movie) than to the
> book itself. 
> 
> Rich Morrissey
 
The initial success of the book preceeded the musical version, and it
was a classic before the movie.  Certainly much of its fame in the 1990s
comes from the 1939 movie.  It is impossible to know what the fate of
the book would have been had the movie not come out.
 
Steve T.

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:49:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
David Hulan: You pointed out to Dave
Hardenbrook that Dorothy in "Wizard" never said "I don't care if you get what you want so long
as I get what I want" and that the quasi-quote paraphrased what the narrative said she was
thinking.  I'd add a reminder of the point Gordon Birrell made earlier: that the narrative
description of the thought has it as part of her reaction to the argument between the Scarecrow
and the Tin Woodman, each believing that the other would get no good out of having the gift he
planned to ask of the Wizard, and that it's a sensible reaction to an insoluble problem.  It doesn't
mean she doesn't care about them.
 
Tyler Jones: On having the Silver Slippers show up in later stories, even though lost in the Desert
-- there was a story in "Oziana" several years back in which the Slippers were recovered from the
Sand Witch of the Desert. 
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:29:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-18-97
 
Bear:
Baum and Denslow were friends, so there is a good chance that the author did
see the illustrator's work before it was published.  Incidentally, the book was
copyrighted by both Baum and Denslow.
 
The ruined parts of the Yellow Brick Road were in uninhabited areas.  In
populated places, the people probably fix the road when it falls into
disrepair.
 
It is interesting to note that the china church in _Wizard_ is the only mention
of such a building in Baum's Oz books (IIRC).  Thompson makes passing
references to churches in _Ojo_ and _Handy Mandy_.
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        "I can't think of a quote right now."  -Me

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:20:22 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
John:
Farmer theorized that Glinda may have had a hand in Dorothy's house in
his non-HACC _Barnstormer in Oz_.
 
Aging:
My current MOPPeT is that Baum, as an early explorer of Oz, did not realize
that people were aging very slowly, and he assumed that all aging stopped.
In later years, after more investigating, it was discovered that people
aged only when they wanted to.
 
Bear:
I don't know if there is an explanation in the FF, but in _Tin Castle_ we
meet a man made of Yellow Bricks who works to repair the road. One
possibility is that the WWE, fearful of the Wizard, allowed the road to
fall into disrepair in order to cut down on access to and from EC.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 23:33:59 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
DEATH OF "OLD SAND-EYE" (A.K.A. GINGEMMA):
FWIW, a couple of years ago, before I was online and started the Ozzy Digest
or joined the IWOC, I wrote a story which explained the seemingly coincidental
demise of "Old Sand-Eye" (my name I had for the WWE; the WWW was 
"Old Snarl-Spats")...In this story it was all orchestrated by the Adepts,
who finally figured out a round-about way to exterminate Old Sand-Eye by
using their powers "garnered from nature" to harness a tornado in the
Outside World, have it pick up a good, heavy house, carry it through the Earth-Nonestica
wormhole to where the witch (whom I imagined to be on the narcoleptic side)
was slumbering under a tree in Munchkinland, and SPLAT!!!!!
 
That was my story, anyway...It probably doesn't hold HACC-water, but at least
it was fun to write... :)
 
                              -- Dave

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:37:37 -0500 (EST)
From: CrNoble at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-18-97
 
Observations from the first eight chapters of _Wizard_:
(page numbers are from BoW's fascimile edition)
 
1. Ch.2, p.24 - The Witch of the North says there are no witches left in
civilized countries (like Kansas), but Oz isn't civilized.  This suggests to
me that Baum initially intended or thought that Oz was someplace on Earth.
 Perhaps he thought the Deadly Desert was all that separated it from the
outside world.  Of course in later books we learn about other parts of
Baumgea that are outside the Deadly Desert, but note that these, too, are
uncivilized countries (like Ev) where magic is practiced.
 
2. The color scheme in Oz is much less rigid here.  Note for example in the
Munchkin country (Ch.2, p. 20) that there were "lovely patches of green
sward, and (Ch. 3, p. 34) though "blue was the favorite color," Dorothy
visits Boq's house which has a "green lawn before it."
 
3. I don't think Dorothy was a selfish brat, she was just a lost little girl
who was rightfully worried about finding her home.  She "was truly sorry for
him [the Scarecrow]" because he had no brains (Ch.3, p. 39).  Dorothy's later
thought that her companions' plight wouldn't matter so much if she were back
in Kansas is not unreasonable.  After all, despite their problems, they seem
better able to take care of themselves than she does.
 
4. Humor!  Dorothy remarks there's no place like home, even though it's dry
and gray (Ch. 3, p. 45).  The Scarecrow responds, "If your heads were stuffed
with straw like mine, you would probably all live in beautiful places, and
then Kansas would have no people at all.  It is fortunate for Kansas that you
have brains."
 
-- Craig

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:19:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-19-97
 
Dave:
Well, Ku-Klip states that the WWE was on her way to get some magical herbs to
enchant Nimmie Amee when the house hit her.  Of course, she could have taken a
nap on her way to where the herbs grew.
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        "Don't meddle with magic; that's my motto."  -Wag

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:51:20 -0500
From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-18-97
 
Bear:
 
Here's the account from the annotated Wizard of Oz: "Even as a boy, Baum
was a dreamer who preferred to spend his time alone. He had been born with
a defective heart and was forbidden to play any of the rough games of
childhood.  He was educated by private tutors and soon became enthralled
with the fat novels of the popular Victorian authors. Besides reading, he
had an early interest in writing poetry and novels.
 
"To cure him of his daydreaming (! aren't we glad it didn't work! MG :-)
:-) ) his mother sent him to the Peekskill Military Academy. Unaccustomed
to the harsh treatment of a military school he suffered a heart attack and
was immediately withdrawn. Years later he described the preference of his
instructors to slap or use a cane for discipline purposes. .......After his
disaster at the military academy his parents became more lenient and
evidently encouraged his interests." 
        
 In short, Baum proved temperamentally and physically unsuited for military
life. His mom made the typical parental mistake of trying to make her son
into something he wasn't. Nowadays, daydreaming is recognized as healthy
and normal---and important to creativity!  :-) .As for whether he had the
heart attack after being yelled at, I'll quote that one if I ever find it,
or it even exists.  But being yelled at gratuitously a lot is not exactly
good for mental health.... 
 
Yes, the Wizard does feature a lot of carnage in comparison with later Oz
books. However, Baum was supposedly kindly in real life--and even the
kindliest people get angry from time to time. 
 
Melody Grandy.

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 02:57:17 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
CRAIG'S _WIZARD_ COMMENTS:
Yes, I think Baum did originally intend the Deadly Desert to be the main
buffer between Oz and our world...I guess it wasn't until _Ozma_ that
Baumgea was "born" :) and Oz became situated at its hub.
 
 
                              -- Dave

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:36:36 -0800
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-20-97
 
> From: CrNoble at aol.com
> 
> 2. The color scheme in Oz is much less rigid here.  Note for example in the
> Munchkin country (Ch.2, p. 20) that there were "lovely patches of green
> sward, and (Ch. 3, p. 34) though "blue was the favorite color," Dorothy
> visits Boq's house which has a "green lawn before it."
> 
Since you are using a facsimile first edition, it should be noted that
in this edition that was overseen by Baum and Denslow the colors of the
chapter title pages and the text illustrations change with the territory
in which the story is taking place.  A careful note of these colors will
show that the five color scheme that we associate with Oz was not clear
in the first book.  More on this later.
 
Steve T.

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:56:22 -0600
From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Some observations on WWOZ:
 
Bear:
I liked your statistical analysis of the carnage in the book and the
surprising revelation that the Tin Woodman is the real "killing
machine" of the quartet.  It's interesting, though,
that most of the creatures that get wiped out in the course of the
book are wild animals, and precisely the kind of wild animals (crows,
bees, wolves, wildcats) that plagued Midwest farmers at the turn of
the century, as Michael Patrick Hearn points out in the annotated
WWOZ.  It's unlikely that contemporary readers would have
found this violence excessive or unwarranted.
 
I'd forgotten, too, how much more domesticated the Wicked Witch of the
West is in the original book compared with the MGM film:  the
way she sits on her homey front porch scanning her territories for intruders
is a far cry from Margaret Hamilton's flamboyant wickedness and the Nazi Deco
mise-en-scene that the filmmakers constructed for the witch's castle.
  There's no question that the MGM witch is terrifying, but Baum's
down-home witch with her little comical touches is nightmarish in more
complex ways, I think.
 
About the Dainty China Country:  everybody seems to agree that this
chapter constitutes an Irrelevant Episode.  Hearn comments that it
lacks the "robustness" of the rest of the book, and it is certainly true
that the milieu of the China Country comes across as overrefined and precious
in comparison with the primitive or archaic forces that the quartet has had
to come to terms with in other chapters.  On the other hand, I
believe that a case can be made for the relevance of this episode.  WWOZ
is, among other things, about a process of empowerment--I shudder to use that
term, with its echoes of talk-show babble, but here it makes sense, since three
of the characters are preparing to assume positions of great power and authority
(the Scarecrow as ruler of the Emerald City, the Tin Woodman as Emperor of the
Winkies, the Lion as King of the Forest), and Dorothy is also learning about
power--notice the cool way she takes charge of the witch's domain, issuing
clear-headed commands and restoring order in a methodical way. What the Dainty
China Country chapter demonstrates is that the just exercise of power involves
not only appropriate force against dangerous aggressors but also, and inevitably,
a sense of responsibility to respect the rights of those who are smaller,
weaker, more fragile, and--yes--more brittle.  (I say "inevitably"
because the book makes it clear that the China Country is directly in the path
of the four, and they *have* to traverse it on their way to Glinda's castle.)
 
Speaking of Dorothy and power:  it's worth noting that the destruction
of the Wicked Witch of the West doesn't take place in the context of a valiant
attempt to save the Scarecrow but occurs solely between Dorothy and the Witch,
in the feminine arena of the kitchen, in the context of a power struggle
over the silver shoes.
 
Craig:
I was also struck by unexpected humorous moments, and not just Baum's
infamous puns.  Here's one of my favorite passages:
 
Glinda:  "By means of the Golden Cap I shall command the Winged
Monkeys to carry [the Scarecrow] to the gates of the Emerald City, for it would
be a shame to deprive the people of so wonderful a ruler."
 
Scarecrow:  "Am I really wonderful?"
 
Glinda:  "You are unusual."
 
Gordon Birrell

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:30:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-20-97
 
Craig:
The GWN's statement that there are no witches in civilized countries seems to
conflict with _John Dough_.  In that book, Ali Dubh says that he received
magical powders from a witch in an American city.  Of course, we do not know
that the GWN's statement was entirely correct, since she had probably never
been to a "civilized" country.  BTW, isn't it kinda strange how
Oz is described as "uncivilized," but, at least after Ozma's ascension
to the throne, it actually seems more civilized than the Great Outside World?
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html
        "This isn't a fairy tale.  It's real life in the Kingdom of Noland."
        -Ruffles (the dog in _Queen Zixi of Ix_)

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:07:16 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-18 thru 20-97
 
2/18:
Nathan:
The Soldier with the Green Whiskers is even described as "immensely tall"
somewhere in the series, though I forget exactly where. I remember that
phrase, though. Ojo thought he was the tallest man he'd ever seen, which
definitely means he's taller than the Shaggy Man.
 
John W.:
When I said "the books are ambiguous" about aging, I put it in the plural
deliberately. In TIN WOODMAN, Baum says aging had stopped, period. But in
PATCHWORK GIRL one of his characters says that Ojo will grow up (and there's
a strong implication that he's been growing recently); Thompson and Neill
both say quite specifically that Ozites can decide to age more if they
choose. (Maybe "inconsistent" or "contradictory" would have been better than
"ambiguous".)
 
Bear:
It's true that there's a lot of killing in WIZARD, but except for the two
Wicked Witches all those killed are animals. And the Animal Rights movement
hadn't really started yet.
 
2/19:
Ruth:
Right, Dorothy's thoughts in that quote that's been bandied about quite a bit
lately didn't even say that it didn't matter if her friends got what they
wanted as long as she got what she wanted - it said that it didn't matter if
they didn't get what they didn't particularly want in the first place (brains
for the TW and a heart for the Scarecrow).
 
2/20:
Craig:
The color scheme of Oz didn't get all that rigid in any of the Baum or
Thompson books, IIRC. In their books grass was always green, as were tree
leaves.
 
David Hulan

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:44:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Gili Bar-Hillel <abhillel at husc.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-21-97
 
David - about killings after "Wizard", offhand I can think of a few in
"Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz": I'm not sure that mangaboos die when they
are split in half, but the fish in the brook that Eureka ate, I think one
of the invisible bears, possibly some gargoyles... I don't exactly
remember. I'll have to rearead the book, I guess...
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gili Bar-Hillel
abhillel at fas.harvard.edu
    gili at scso.com
http://www.scso.com/~gili
======================================================================
                               "He thought he saw an Elephant          
   |\      _,,,---,,_          That practised on a fife:               
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_      He looked again, and found it was       
  |,4-  ) )-,_..;\ (  `'-'     A letter from his wife.                 
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)          'At length I realise,' he said,         
(cat by Felix Lee)             'The bitterness of Life!'"              
                                    - Lewis Carrol, "Sylvie and Bruno"

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:33:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-21-97
 
David:
In _Ojo_, it is stated that Ojo was born after Ozma took the throne, so he must
have been aging between _Land_ and _Patchwork Girl_.  Of course, this was
Thompson's idea, not Baum's.
 
In _Land_, IIRC, Tip tells Jack Pumpkinhead that pretty much everything,
including the grass and trees, are purple in the Gillikin Country.  In
_Patchwork Girl_, on the other hand, Baum states that the grass and trees do
not follow the color scheme.  The scheme is most extreme in Neill's books.
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html
        "I've had a hard life; hard as those rocks.  Everybody's been against
        me from the very start, and all because I'm so little."  -Ruggedo

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:26:00 -0500 (EST)
From: CrNoble at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-21-97
 
Stephen:
 
Good point about the color of the text illustrations not always matching the
Oz territory  in the facsimile/first edition.  I was wondering about that
myself.  This is the first time I've read this edition of _Wizard_.  I'm
really enjoying the color plates and text illustrations.  The text
illustrations in my old R&L edition (in the white binding) don't overlap with
the text.  I like them much better the way they were intended even though it
sometimes makes it difficult to read the text.  I'm also seeing new
illustrations that I hadn't seen before in the chapter heading pages.
 
Gordon:
 
I'm not done with _Wizard_ yet, so I haven't gotten to the funny exchange
between Glinda and the Scarecrow.  Even so, that IS funny!
 
David:
 
As for the color scheme, I'm sure you're right about the Baum and Thompson
books.  I just finished reading for the first time _Scalawagons_, _Lucky
Bucky_, _Shaggy Man_, _Hidden Valley_, and _Merry-Go-Round_, and IIRC in some
of these books the color scheme is pretty rigid.
 
That's it for today,
Craig

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:13:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan DeHoff <LNVF at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-22-97
 
Gili:
IIRC, _Dorothy and the Wizard_ may have contained less violence overall than
_Wizard_, but much gorier descriptions.  The violence in _Wizard_ was usually
described quickly, and never very graphic, but I seem to remember Jim bleeding
after being attacked by an invisible bear.
 
        Nathan Mulac DeHoff
        lnvf at grove.iup.edu
        "Is it a girl or an octopus?"  -Kerr, upon first seeing Handy Mandy