Day 1 - Kabumpo arrives in Regalia in late afternoon, probably between
  four and five (Randy sends Hoochafoo to review the Purple Guard at five
  o'clock) - Kabumpo & Randy escape the castle at midnight ("in the
  bright, white light of a smiling moon") - season is spring ("moved
  rhythmically as a ship through the soft spring night"), probably May
  or June from Randy's reference to the Gapers' "dinner month"
Day 2 - Kabumpo arrives in Gaper's Gulch while moon is still up (before
  dawn) - gets 5 miles beyond the Gulch before stopping (still before dawn;
  "the moon had waned and the stars grown faint as he stopped at last")
  - storm - breakfast/lunch in Ix - meet Planetty & Thun - enter Box
  Wood - leave Box Wood, enter forest in afternoon - night in forest
Day 3 - Encounter field of feathers - imprisoned by Gludwig in Red
  Jinn's basement - release Ginger - Jinnicky pulled from Nonestic
  in afternoon/evening - Gludwig spends evening experimenting with
  Planetty's staff
Day 4 - At 2 AM Jinnicky & party arrive at the Red Castle - Jinnicky
  restored to power in morning - Randy, Kabumpo wait "hours" while
  Jinnicky revives Planetty, Thun - Randy, Planetty married
 
"After a month's merry stay" with Jinnicky, they return to Oz
 
Note: One of the continuing questions for Ozian researchers is the
amount of time that elapses between different volumes in the canon.
SILVER PRINCESS gives more clues than most as to the passage of time
because it reunites two characters from PURPLE PRINCE (Kabumpo and
Randy).  There are six books separating the two (PURPLE PRINCE, OJO,
SPEEDY, WISHING HORSE, CAPTAIN SALT, HANDY MANDY). In SILVER PRINCESS,
Thompson gives several clues to the passage of time, indicating that
the time between books averages about a year:
 
1. In Chapter One, Randy completes his 310th weekly court reception.
310 weeks = approximately 5.96 years, or about two weeks before the
sixth anniversary of his accession.
 
2. In Chapter Two Kabumpo says, "You were only about ten when I met
you and that makes you sixteen now."  This is not conclusive evidence;
Randy replies that he had been "ten for about four years before I knew
you."  However, Thompson makes another reference to this amount of time 
n her role as narrator in the same chapter ("'tis a wonder, even after
six years, that he managed this visit to Randy"), so it is fairly certain
that six years have passed since the events of PURPLE PRINCE.
 
3. In Chapter Eight, Kabumpo refers to the last time he saw Jinnicky:
"He was in fine shape and form when I saw him in the Emerald City three
years ago.  By the way, why weren't you at that grand celebration?"
This is presumably a reference to the events chronicled in WISHING
HORSE, which is separated from SILVER PRINCESS by CAPTAIN SALT and
HANDY MANDY.  If we assume that the volumes are approximately a year
apart, this would make SILVER PRINCESS take place in the third year
from WISHING HORSE.

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Thu Oct 31, 2002  3:29 pm
Subject:  Silver Princess of Oz

As has been mentioned in connection with other Oz books with Jinnicky,
"Silver Princess" is seriously marred by the racism implicit in the casually
callous, who-cares-if-they're-turned-to-statues treatment of Jinnicky's
"slaves." Ignoring this serious flaw, however --

This is one of my favorites among the Oz books, for the pleasant romance
between Randy and Planetty. The scene in the Boxwood of Ix is sort of a
version of the kind of idyllic garden, mirroring the growth and blossoming
of the young lovers' romance, so often used in romance-narratives. (It is
also the first time that an Oz book gets to visit Ix, although the country
is mentioned in earlier books, beginning with "Road," when so many of the
characters from Baum's non-Oz books attend Ozma's birthday party.
Geographically, the story carries most of its emotional weight in the
Borderlands of Oz. Inside Oz, not much time is spent in Regalia, and the
Gapers Gulch and Headland episodes are rather too nightmarishly unpleasant.)

The romantic love of the young lovers is echoed by the friendships between
various of the other characters -- Randy and Kabumpo, Planetty and Thun,
Jinnicky and Ginger, Jinnicky and Nina the Nonagon Cat (presumably her name
is pronounced with i as in North/South Carolina, not as in the Malvinas
Islands), and (over Kabumpo's protests) Kabumpo and Thun. The title and
theme make an interesting comparison/contrast to "Purple Prince," as Randy
continues to find reasons -- otherwise rather rare in Oz books -- to want to
grow up.

I wonder if we are meant to assume some kind of connection in their origins
(magical?) of the Octagon and Nonagon islands. If I'm remembering the sides
correctly (always difficult to do without a version of the map in front of
one, thanks to the east/west confusion Baum bequeathed to his successors),
they're geographically quite distant, although both to the north, as Octagon
Island is to the Winkie side, near Pingaree and Ev, and the Nonagon Island
is to Munchkin side, near Noland and Ix.

I wonder also if the Silver Princess, given her mineralogical background,
might at some point want to visit the Delvers' Silver Mine (and maybe
establish better relations with the above-grounders than Kabumpo left
behind), the Silver Islanders, and the Silver Mountain, and if she would get
on particularly well with the Tin Woodman, Tik-tok, and the Hoppers/Horners
with their "healthful" uranium-lined homes.

Ruth Berman

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Sat Nov 2, 2002  12:26 am
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] Silver Princess of Oz

Ruth:
>As has been mentioned in connection with other Oz books with Jinnicky,
>"Silver Princess" is seriously marred by the racism implicit in the
>casually
>callous, who-cares-if-they're-turned-to-statues treatment of Jinnicky's
>"slaves."

This aspect is made even more irritating by two things, the first being
that, since Jinnicky disenchants his dog, he almost certainly has the power
to do the same for his slaves. The second is that he claims that he
forgives the rebels. With these things in mind, it seems quite mean of
Jinnicky not to restore the statues.

While on the slavery aspect of the book, I haven't had the change to reread
SILVER PRINCESS yet, but I remember a reference in the book to the miners
getting good wages and short hours. If this is true, why would they want to
rebel in the first place? One possibility that has been suggested before is
that Jinnicky started giving them high wages, in order to avoid another
uprising. The way Thompson writes it, however, it seems as if the miners
had always been treated well.

>I wonder if we are meant to assume some kind of connection in their origins
>(magical?) of the Octagon and Nonagon islands. If I'm remembering the sides
>correctly (always difficult to do without a version of the map in front of
>one, thanks to the east/west confusion Baum bequeathed to his successors),
>they're geographically quite distant, although both to the north, as
>Octagon
>Island is to the Winkie side, near Pingaree and Ev, and the Nonagon Island
>is to Munchkin side, near Noland and Ix.

Actually, I believe the Haff/Martin map shows Nonagon Island as north of
Jinnicky's castle in Ev, so that it is on the Winkie side, yet still not
very close to the Octagon Isle. If one were to keep sailing west through
the Nonestic, I would not be surprised if they would eventually find
Heptagon Island, Hexagon Island, Pentagon Island, etc. Despite the
similarity of the names, the two islands are really quite different, one
being a small but thriving community ruled by an absolute monarch, while the
other is inhabited solely by nine antisocial subsistence fishermen with no
government whatsoever. How nine apparently unrelated men with similar names
all came to live on Nonagon Island is a mystery in and of itself, although
perhaps no greater than how some of the other small communities in Oz and
its surrounding nations came to be.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sat Nov 2, 2002  1:39 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS mixed emotions

I'm behind on my plan to read SILVER PRINCESS, but Ruth Berman's posting
reflects my general feelings about the book. On the one hand, the BIRTH OF
A NATION-like portrayal of the heroic repression of a slave revolt is
nasty. On the other, the love story may be the best in the series, with
characters showing true-to-life emotions instead of just going through the
motions.

Back when we talked about HANDY MANDY, someone [I'm sorry I don't remember
who--perhaps Joe Bongiorno?] wrote of SILVER PRINCESS as aimlessly plotted
at its outset. I'm reading with that observation in mind. I recall seeing
strong clues, such as the discussion of Randy's age, that Thompson was
working toward a royal marriage all along. But there's a fair amount of
useless wandering before Planetty comes on the scene and the heroes
discover the crisis in Ev. Thompson may have been killing time and filling
pages.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Sat Nov 2, 2002  4:50 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS mixed emotions

J. L. Bell:
>Back when we talked about HANDY MANDY, someone [I'm sorry I don't remember
>who--perhaps Joe Bongiorno?] wrote of SILVER PRINCESS as aimlessly plotted
>at its outset.

I don't remember who it was, either, but I agree with it. I also see SILVER
PRINCESS as being rather similar to CAPTAIN SALT, especially in the
beginning. Both have characters reuniting after a long absence (and
commenting on that long absence), and planning to take another journey.
Neither has a visit to the Emerald City, and both use only Thompson's own
characters. I believe I've mentioned this before, but what with the party
in WISHING HORSE and the reunification of the characters from WIZARD in
OZOPLANING, there is a definite sense of nostalgia to Thompson's later FF
books.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sun Nov 3, 2002  6:47 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<While on the slavery aspect of the book, I haven't had the change to
reread SILVER PRINCESS yet, but I remember a reference in the book to the
miners getting good wages and short hours. If this is true, why would they
want to rebel in the first place? One possibility that has been suggested
before is that Jinnicky started giving them high wages, in order to avoid
another uprising. The way Thompson writes it, however, it seems as if the
miners had always been treated well.>>

I think it's useful to look at SILVER PRINCESS's depiction of Jinnicky's
slaves through the lens of the "Lost Cause" myth of U.S. Southern history
which prevailed in Thompson's time. In that image of the past, American
slaveholders were kind and generous to their human property, and American
blacks were better off working for rich white landowners as slaves or
sharecroppers than becoming independent farmers and workers.

Thompson applies the same model to Jinnicky's kingdom: the savage, foolish,
and easily frightened black characters don't realize how good they had it
working for the Jinn. They're led astray by a malicious lighter-skinned
official (as in BIRTH OF A NATION), but in the end are grateful to return
to their old boss. And Jinnicky publicly displays the lifeless bodies of
some uppity rebels in order to keep the rest quiet. As troubling as that
narrative is to us now, it wasn't an uncommon depiction of race relations
in the U.S. in the late 1930s, and was therefore easy to apply to a good
guy in the Nonestic world.

As you noted, by the next time Thompson wrote about Jinnicky, in YANKEE,
she seems to have discarded the term "slaves." While not fully erased in
the decades right after WW2, "Lost Cause" ideas were no longer so prevalent
in American culture. (It's conceivable that Thompson used the old terms
when she wrote YANKEE in the early 1960s and received more editorial advice
when the Oz Club published the manuscript in the 1970s, but I prefer to
think she'd made the change herself.)

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Mon Nov 4, 2002  11:32 am
Subject:  Oz book format and Jinnicky's labor relations

"Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
wrote:
> While on the slavery aspect of the book, I haven't had the change to
reread SILVER PRINCESS yet, but I remember a reference in the book to the
miners getting good wages and short hours. If this is true, why would they
want to rebel in the first place? One possibility that has been suggested
before is that Jinnicky started giving them high wages, in order to avoid
another uprising. The way Thompson writes it, however, it seems as if the
miners had always been treated well. <

It sounds less like slavery than like a labor dispute, with the narrative
assuming that the workers went on strike because of gullible willingness to
listen to an outside agitator, and not because they had any genuine reason
to think that going on strike would improve their lot. Since this view makes
the workers so excessively gullible, it seems reasonable, as a way of
reconciling the discrepancy between Jinnicky's view of their motives and
their view of their motives, to assume that Jinnicky's wages and hours,
while perhaps reasonably high/short compared to some (perhaps
compared to a previous ruler -- maybe the old King of Ev?), were
unreasonably low/long compared to others (perhaps the rest of Ev under
Everard's rule?), and to assume that the end of the strike did involve
improvement in their wages and hours. (Maybe even though the narrative
doesn't specify it, we should assume that at some point someone -- maybe
Ginger or Allibabble? or maybe Planetty having personal experience of being
re-animated? -- got Jinnicky to re-animate the statues. It could probably be
done easily enough by playing on his jealousy and pointing out that Oz
wizardry was able to de-petrify Unc Nunkie and Margolotte, so Evian wizardry
shouldn't be behind-hand.)

Ruth Berman

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Nov 4, 2002  5:26 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS pronunciation question

I never have trouble myself pronouncing words and names in the Oz books,
with the occasional exception of *pyrzqxgl*, because I always "hear" them
as I first read them in childhood. But I'm often surprised to learn that
many people pronounce "Roquat" or "Weaugh!" or some other word differently
from the dialect which I grew up speaking. And often those "wrong"
pronunciations strike me as more sensible now, though I have trouble
retraining my brain.

So how do folks pronounce the name of the silver princess? Is it
"PLAN-et-ee," based on "planet"? Or "pla-NET-ee," like "Annette"? On pages
148-9, Planetty and Thun try out some variations on her name--Netty and
Anetty--that inspire this query. Thompson gave characters new names or
nicknames in her previous two books, and she might have been trying out the
same sort of shift in this passage, but thought better of it.

Speaking of names, we're in a stretch where Thompson's young protagonists
were called Tandy, Handy Mandy, and Randy. And to think she feared she was
in a creative rut!

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Tue Nov 5, 2002  2:29 am
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS pronunciation question

J. L. Bell:
>So how do folks pronounce the name of the silver princess? Is it
>"PLAN-et-ee," based on "planet"? Or "pla-NET-ee," like "Annette"? On pages
>148-9, Planetty and Thun try out some variations on her name--Netty and
>Anetty--that inspire this query.

I initially thought it was "PLAN-et-ee," but now I think "pla-NET-ee" is
more likely, probably largely because of the the "Netty"
nickname.

Nathan

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Tue Nov 5, 2002  11:39 am
Subject:  late-Oz vectors, humbugs, pronunciation, eyes, & quadrupeds

J.L.  also asked how "Planetty" gets pronounced. I always pronounced it with
stress on first syllable until some time back when David Hulan pointed out
the nickname Netty and suggested that that implied stress on second
syllable.

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Tue Nov 5, 2002  11:56 am
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS labor dispute

Ruth Berman wrote:
<<It sounds less like slavery than like a labor dispute, with the narrative
assuming that the workers went on strike because of gullible willingness to
listen to an outside agitator, and not because they had any genuine reason
to think that going on strike would improve their lot.>>

Thompson uses the term "slaves" to refer to Jinnicky's miners [180, 183],
even as she also says they were paid and housed [238]. Thus, she presents
the situation as BOTH a slave revolt and a labor dispute. But resistance to
slavery is a dispute over labor, so those two things aren't really opposed.


The "Lost Cause" myth was adapted to cover not simply the slavery period
but also Reconstruction (the setting of most of BIRTH OF A NATION), union
drives, and eventually civil rights activism: African-Americans in the
South were supposedly better off under the domination of rich whites, and
only thought they were unhappy because of "outsiders" stirring up trouble.
No matter that those "outsiders" were mostly black Southerners themselves,
as most Americans now recognize.

In fact, SILVER PRINCESS presents its agitator, Gludwig, not as an outsider
but as a treacherous insider. He started as "manager of [Jinnicky's] ruby
mines" and a "trusted officer." He had "his own splendid mansion and
fortune" [201], but wants more. Gludwig seems to have no other motivations
but greed and envy, as is usual in Thompson's villains (unless they also
want to marry a princess).

Gludwig seems to engineer a reversal of Jinnicky's labor system in which
the palace servants (who previous books have said were also "slaves,"
except probably for the red-haired Alibabble) work in the mines and the
miners become soldiers and servants in the palace [202, 234, 238]. There
are also "natives," stated to be "black," unconnected with mines or castle,
who simply run away [236]. Thompson's descriptions aren't entirely clear,
but still she must scramble to explain why Jinnicky should enjoy the
benefits of slavery and Gludwig shouldn't--hence the late mention of wages
and cottages for the miners.

The notions that Jinnicky eventually provided better compensation for his
miners and disenchanted the sixty soldiers whom Planetty petrified are
comforting, but SILVER PRINCESS explicitly says the miners accepted their
old terms and the metal soldiers were stood along the highways to act as signposts
and also as warning to all of the hard fate awaiting those who lent their ears to treachery and their
arms to rebellion. [238]

Jinnicky finds the power to reanimate people struck by Planetty's voral
staff [like a "vorpal blade"?] because he restores his favorite dog [248].
But he's not as kind to the miners. In fact, I don't think the book ever
explicitly says that the Jinn even restores the unlucky boot boy or other
palace servants Gludwig petrified [227].

So we'd have to believe that Alibabble, Randy, Kabumpo, or others convinced
Jinnicky to change his mind about what to do with the petrified
soldiers--and that Thompson not only didn't report that change of heart but
wrote favorably of the Jinn's initial harshness. And for most of us today,
we do HAVE to believe something like that to retain our fondness and
admiration for Jinnicky. As I found when trying to reimagine the
relationship between Jinnicky and Ginger (in "Dearest Mother," published in
the 2001 OZIANA), that requires some noncanonical and wishful thinking. But
wishfulness is part of fantasy, after all.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Thu Nov 7, 2002  10:43 am
Subject:  Silver Princess

"J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
wrote:
> The notions that Jinnicky eventually provided better compensation for his
miners and disenchanted the sixty soldiers whom Planetty petrified are
comforting, but SILVER PRINCESS explicitly says the miners accepted their
old terms [and stood the petrified soldiers along the highway] <

Actually, the narrative doesn't *explicitly* say the miners accepted their
old terms. It says that they were glad to have Jinnicky back, because with
the return of Jinnicky to power, they got better terms than under Gludwig.
That could certainly imply that the terms they got under the restored
Jinnicky were the same terms they'd had before, but it might mean rather
that they got better terms than they'd had under Gludwig, without
necessarily meaning that those were the same terms Jinnicky had given
before. (Of course, that raises the question of why they'd gone with Gludwig
in the first place, but a possible answer to that might be that Gludwig had
promised better terms to come after a period of
while-they-made-the-transition.)

The petrified soldiers were stood along the highway, but -- going outside
the narrative -- that leaves open the possibility of jogging Jinnicky's
conscience later on. (The situation is rather like the "Lost Princess" one,
where Baum's narrative cheerfully leaves the giants enslaved. Going outside
the narrative, that leaves open the possibility that someone later asked
Ozma to do something in the Abolitionist line.)

Not that these comforting notions are what the authors intended -- but
arguing with authors is part of the fun of reading. (And, as noted above, I
think RPT's description of getting back high/short wages/hours under
Jinnicky is primarily intended as a contrast to the wages/hours under
Gludwig, and might have included some level of intention -- however vague an
intention -- that the improvement in wages/hours was an improvement over the
ancien regime as well as an improvement over Gludwig.)

Ruth Berman

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Fri Nov 8, 2002  1:31 pm
Subject:  bowing & multiple authorship in oz and Silver Princess

Mark Haas on the IWOC message board happened to leave a comment about
Neill's art in "Silver Princess." He feels that Neill was slacking off on
this book, especially in the end-papers. I think that comment is generally
correct (the end-papers, plain portraits of Randy and Planetty, compare
poorly to the more elaborate end-papers Neill had usually produced). All the
same, there are some spectactular illos in the book, especially the
double-page spread of Planetty riding through the sky. The star with one of
Neill's tall, thin, 18th-century gentlemen playing a violin is a nice comic
touch -- reminds me a little of some of St. Exupery's illos to his "Le Petit
Prince," although I don't think either can of influenced the other (LPP came
out a couple of years after SP, I think). The double-spread of the attempt
to bury Kabumpo and Randy is also impressive, in its nightmarish way. But
many of the vignettes are simple portraits, and somewhat repetitious. The
vignette of Jinnicky dancing with Nina is quite charming, although it
somehow got misplaced, appearing early in the book instead of near the end,
after Nina is actually introduced.

Ruth Berman

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Sat Nov 9, 2002  6:23 am
Subject:  The first leg of the journey in SILVER PRINCESS

I've gotten through the first five chapters of the BCF, and I have a few
comments to make.

On p. 22, Thompson states that the Grand Duke Hoochafoo "had once been
married." If so, what happened to his wife? Did they get divorced
(something we haven't seen in Oz before, although it's possible that's what
happened to Jinjur and her husband), or is he a widower? For that matter,
what happened to Randy's mother? I had entertained the notion that her
death might have been what led Randy's father to retire and become a hermit,
but that would have meant she had died shortly before the events of PURPLE
PRINCE, long after the "no death in Oz" rule had been established.

I believe Chapter 2 contains the only two references to underwear in the FF.
One appears on p. 35, and the other on p. 40.

Speaking of death and things that aren't mentioned much in Oz books,
Kabumpo's initial thought upon entering Gaper's Gulch is that the place is a
cemetery. He immediately discards the notion, however, saying that "no one
in Oz ever dies." People must have died and some point in Oz, though, so,
even though the gulch turns out not to be a cemetery, why couldn't it have
just been an old one, from before the enchantment and/or Ozma's reign
(depending on when you think death was abolished there)? And if Oz never
had cemeteries, how would Kabumpo know what one is? I suppose he has
travelled outside Oz, and might know of death and cemeteries that way. It's
interesting, however, that he considers "you should have been underground
months ago" (p. 45) to be a "mortal insult," suggesting that the burial of
the dead is not unknown in Oz.

On p. 50, Thompson mentions the "plump chest[s]" of the Wakes, yet Neill's
illustration makes them very skinny, and gives them Scoodler-like grotesque
features.

Snorpy explains (on p. 60) that the Wakes are "trained to sleep in summer
and fall and to eat in winter and spring." He also mentions that "the Winks
are not so clever at staying awake as we are, but they'll learn." Does this
mean that the Winks are Wakes in training, or do they try to sleep even when
it isn't their season for hibernating? Incidentally, all of the Gapers
specifically mentioned in the text are men; maybe there are no women and
children among them, although there's no real proof of this. The number
forty seems to be significant to them, with forty Winks (an obvious pun) and
forty Wakes. Would it be safe to imply that there are also forty normal
Gapers, bringing the population of the gulch to 120? I think we might also
be able to hazard a guess as to the population of Headland, also based on
the number forty. Kabumpo says that the darts Randy uses to put the Headmen
to sleep are "the same arrows the Winks shot at me" (p. 74).  Since each
Wink shot one arrow at him, I don't think it would be too far-fetched to
assume there were forty arrows in Kabumpo's pocket, which, since the darts
brought down "[m]ore than half of the ear-men" (p. 73), would mean there
were fewer than eighty Headmen.

In WHO'S WHO, Jack Snow gives "Mugly" as the name of the ugliest Headman,
but I think Thompson just intended "ugly Mugly" to be a description. She
used the same term to refer to the illusionary creatures in the chamber of
the Forbidden Flagon in JACK PUMPKINHEAD. Speaking of WHO'S WHO, I believe
that book also identifies Torpy as the Chief Wake, but p. 50 makes it clear
that they are two different characters.

This book marks the second time Randy and Kabumpo are caught in a storm at
the edge of the Deadly Desert. Doesn't it seem like storms would be LESS
common at the edge of the desert than most places? Maybe the Rain King is
secretly looking out for Kabumpo and/or Randy. Overall, though, I'd say the
flight across the desert is a rather weak idea, and is probably an
indication that Thompson was growing tired of figuring out ways for
characters to cross it.

More to come in future posts.

Nathan

From:  "jno23x" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sat Nov 9, 2002  10:13 pm
Subject:  Re: The first leg of the journey in SILVER PRINCESS

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
> Kabumpo's initial thought upon entering Gaper's Gulch is that the place is a
> cemetery. He immediately discards the notion, however, saying that "no one
> in Oz ever dies." People must have died and some point in Oz, though, so,
> even though the gulch turns out not to be a cemetery, why couldn't it have
> just been an old one, from before the enchantment and/or Ozma's reign
> (depending on when you think death was abolished there)? And if Oz never
> had cemeteries, how would Kabumpo know what one is? I suppose he has
> travelled outside Oz, and might know of death and cemeteries that way. It's
> interesting, however, that he considers "you should have been underground
> months ago" (p. 45) to be a "mortal insult," suggesting that the burial of
> the dead is not unknown in Oz.

Kabumpo is such a well read elephant, and elephants never forget what
they read, so he could have known about a cemetery that way. He may
also see signs that the burials there are relatively recent, long
after the immmortality spell came into effect (again?). As for the
"mortal [!] insult" of being presumed dead, I suspect in some moods
Kabumpo would act like "Hello" is a mortal insult.

> On p. 50, Thompson mentions the "plump chest[s]" of the Wakes, yet Neill's
> illustration makes them very skinny, and gives them Scoodler-like grotesque
> features.

Yes, the different noses Neill gave to the Wakes reminded me of the
full-page illustration of Scoodlers surrounding the travelers in ROAD,
too.

One interesting aspect of this encounter is how the Winks and Wakes
are entirely well meaning, polite, and even cooperative with the
travelers. Yes, they fit the Thompsonian mold of trying to turn
Kabumpo and Randy into odd people like themselves. But they do so out
of concern, not hostility, and they stop once Kabumpo convinces them
he'd rather not go underground. They escort him to the edge of their
domain, acting more politely along the way than he does. [I'm going by
memory here, being far from my book and notes.]

The same pattern holds in the Boxwood: Chillywalla greets the
travelers cheerily, only becoming hostile when he discovers they're as
bad as we'd think cannibals are. The Headmen act more heartlessly, for
obvious reasons. But overall SILVER PRINCESS's little isolates aren't
as hostile as in some of Thompson's other books. Rather, Kabumpo, whom
we first see breaking down a gate, causes trouble for himself by
pushing into one place after another.

> This book marks the second time Randy and Kabumpo are caught in a storm at
> the edge of the Deadly Desert. Doesn't it seem like storms would be LESS
> common at the edge of the desert than most places? Maybe the Rain King is
> secretly looking out for Kabumpo and/or Randy. Overall, though, I'd say the
> flight across the desert is a rather weak idea, and is probably an
> indication that Thompson was growing tired of figuring out ways for
> characters to cross it.

Yes, the storm so conveniently and ably carrying Randy and Kabumpo
across the Deadly Desert is the weakest link in the book for me. It's
a contrivance, but thankfully doesn't depend on the characters
behaving illogically (though we could ask why Kabumpo had given so
little thought to crossing the desert in the absence of such a storm).

The storm itself is described in an exciting fashion with a downpour
of similes: like a balloon, like a Zeppelin, like the clapper of a
bell,...

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Mon Nov 11, 2002  12:19 am
Subject:  Anuther Planet

While Thompson does an interesting job at creating an alien culture in
SILVER PRINCESS, she apparently does not have much knowledge of astronomy,
or else feels that such things aren't important in a children's book. It's
possible that Anuther Planet is located in the sky far above Oz, as Kabumpo
seems to think, and as some of the stars (like the one into which the
Flyaboutabus crashes in COWARDLY LION) are, but that would make the "planet"
designation a misnomer. This would make it another "skyland," along the
lines of Sky Island, Un, and Stratovania. It certainly wouldn't be possible
for a thunderbolt to travel from another planet to Oz (whether or not Oz is
on our Earth, which is a much debated topic in and of itself). Even a comet
wouldn't enter another planet's gravitational field and then return to
space. If Anuther Planet really IS a planet, then the thunderbolt must have
had some magical powers that aren't indicated in the text.

An odd feature of Anuther Planet is that its week has seven days, which, in
our world, is a unique feature of Judeo-Christian culture (as far as I know;
anyone else with information on this can feel free to share). On their
planet, it has more significance, though, because it indicates how often the
inhabitants must take vanadium baths. Of course, we have no idea how long
the days are on Anuther Planet, and Kabumpo's assumption that they are the
same length as ours might have been way off. On the other hand, Planetty
and Thun both adjust quite easily to the days in Ix, which might be a hint
that their days are about the same length. Incidentally, Planetty says
"good net" before sleeping. Wouldn't "good dark" make more sense,
considering that this is defined as her word for "night" fairly
early on?

Nathan

From:  David Hulan <dhulan at w...>
Date:  Mon Nov 11, 2002  12:48 pm
Subject:  The seven-day week

J.L.:
> An odd feature of Anuther Planet is that its week has seven days,
> which, in
> our world, is a unique feature of Judeo-Christian culture (as far as I
> know;
> anyone else with information on this can feel free to share).

I'm pretty sure the seven-day week traces to Mesopotamia, whether the
Sumerians or the later Babylonians. It was based on dedicating one day
to each of the visible "planets," including the sun and moon. It also
fit about as well as any reasonable small number of days can into the
29+-day lunar cycle. I know the Romans used a seven-day week, and I'm
pretty sure they did before Christianity became important. The days were
dedicated to the sun, moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn in
order; we continue that in our day names, although with the exception of
Saturday we use forms of the Teutonic equivalents of the Roman gods the
planets were named for. (The Romans identified Wotan with Mercury and
Thor with Jupiter; they apparently felt that Wotan's role as
"psychopompos," the one who led the souls of the dead to their final
destination, and Thor's as the caster of thunderbolts, were more
significant than Wotan's status as chief of the gods. I believe it's
Tacitus who's best-known for addressing this question, in his
_Germania_, though he probably wasn't the first or last.)

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Nov 11, 2002  3:45 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS Anuther Planet

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<While Thompson does an interesting job at creating an alien culture in
SILVER PRINCESS, she apparently does not have much knowledge of astronomy,
or else feels that such things aren't important in a children's
book.>>

The Oz Club edition of SILVER PRINCESS and some other readings remark on
Thompson using science fiction elements in this book, but the only such
element I see is the concept of visitors from another planet. It's a
generic another planet at that, as shown by the name "Anuther." As you
note, the book's description of such a planet and of interplanetary travel
are so unscientific that I don't think it can qualify as science fiction.

The "thunderbolt" that brings Planetty and Thun to Ix appears to be as much
meteorological as astronomical. Kabumpo tells the princess, "the same storm
that overtook you and Thun overtook us and hurled us across the Deadly
Desert" [116]. Indeed, a storm strong enough to carry a girl and horse
across space could certainly carry a boy and elephant across a mere desert.


That does bring up the issue of how far from Earth Anuther Planet really
is. Is it a skyland? Planetty's description of traveling down to Earth
implies she's already in her new planet's gravitational field:
"...a dreadful storm overtook us. A bright flash
of lightning frightened Thun, and though I
signalled for him to stop, he sprang right up
on a huge glowing thunderbolt that had fallen
across the netway, and it fell and fell and
fell, bringing us to where we are now." [107]

On the other hand, the atmosphere Planetty and Thompson describe is unlike
Earth's: "skies were grey and leaden, and the various states of slate and
silver strata arranged in stiff and net-like patterns" [113]. That implies
Anuther Planet is not within the airy atmosphere of Atmos Fere, Sky Island,
and the like. If Planetty's atmosphere is isolated over her own realm, like
the suns above the Mangaboo land, then she could come from almost anywhere,
including subterranean Earth, and only BELIEVE that she fell through space.  

Yet again, we have to consider that some astronomical disturbance of an
unknown sort has transported Planetty and Thun to Earth, as well as
disturbing Earth's atmosphere near part of the Deadly Desert. Though
Planetty in her language and understanding presents that event as a
"thunderbolt," that might not correspond to the atmospheric thunderbolts we
experience on Earth.

In one sense, Planetty resembles Dorothy in WIZARD: both have animal
companions who impetuously dash the wrong way at the wrong time, causing
their mistresses to take a long journey to a magical realm.

But Planetty is also a princess. Kabumpo, with his nose turned up for
royalty, recognizes that immediately [101], even though it's not clear how
one gets to be a princess of Anuther Planet. Planetty's not born to a ruler
[152], and she doesn't speak of responsibilities or benefits she's missing
back home.

We can assume that all of Anuther Planet is one society since Planetty
makes that assumption about Earth ["planet of Oz"--104] and doesn't mention
political or geographic sections of her home planet. But maybe everyone
there is a princess.

<<An odd feature of Anuther Planet is that its week has seven days, which,
in our world, is a unique feature of Judeo-Christian culture (as far as I
know; anyone else with information on this can feel free to share).>>

I believe the every-seventh-day Sabbath is Judeo-Christian, but the
seven-day week was determined earlier by the Chaldeans to fit the phases of
the lunar cycle. I don't know if other cradles of civilization developed
the same week independently.

<<On their planet, it has more significance, though, because it indicates
how often the inhabitants must take vanadium baths. Of course, we have no
idea how long the days are on Anuther Planet, and Kabumpo's assumption that
they are the same length as ours might have been way off. On the other
hand, Planetty and Thun both adjust quite easily to the days in Ix, which
might be a hint that their days are about the same length.>>

Planetty determines her own sleep-wake schedule ["now it is time to
ret"--145], and she does indeed turn to metal within seven Earth days
[106], implying some similarity between time units on the two planets. But
Thompson, while creating that ticking clock to give her narrative more
urgency, never ties herself down to exactly how long it's been since
Planetty and Thun's last vanadium bath. Even though Kabumpo worries about
this [120], he never asks Planetty about it--perhaps because it's improper
to ask a princess when she last bathed.

<<Incidentally, Planetty says "good net" before sleeping.  Wouldn't "good
dark" make more sense, considering that this is defined as her word for
"night" fairly early on?>>

Probably so, but we can explain this phrase by noting how Planetty sleeps
in a net: "a cloak of larger meshed metal thread almost like a fisherman's
net" [103], hung up as a hammock. So "good net" might be the equivalent not
of "good night" but of "don't let the bedbugs bite."

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Mon Nov 11, 2002  7:51 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS Anuther Planet

J. L. Bell:
>On the other hand, the atmosphere Planetty and Thompson describe is unlike
>Earth's: "skies were grey and leaden, and the various states of slate and
>silver strata arranged in stiff and net-like patterns" [113]. That implies
>Anuther Planet is not within the airy atmosphere of Atmos Fere, Sky Island,
>and the like.

In WONDER CITY, some of the characters visit a chocolate star, where the air
is "brown and thick, with a slightly sweet smell" (p. 169), and the other
visible stars "were all chocolate stars and gave no light" (p.  213).
Perhaps this is evidence that the star is another semi-celestial body with
its own atmosphere, sort of like Anuther Planet.

>We can assume that all of Anuther Planet is one society since Planetty
>makes that assumption about Earth ["planet of Oz"--104] and doesn't mention
>political or geographic sections of her home planet.

She does say, "All our countries are greyling and sad," but this does not
necessarily refer to countries as political units.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Tue Nov 12, 2002  9:12 am
Subject:  The seven-day week

David Hulan wrote:
<<J.L.:
> An odd feature of Anuther Planet is that its week has seven days,
> which, in
> our world, is a unique feature of Judeo-Christian culture (as far as I
> know;
> anyone else with information on this can feel free to share).>>

The remark above was from Nathan DeHoff, but I'm pleased with the
additional information about our week's roots in Mesopotamia.

Do we have any Sinophiles out there who could speak to the length of the
week in ancient east Asia? How about in the pre-Columbian Americas?

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Tue Nov 12, 2002  10:26 am
Subject:  GWN names, Silver Princess, Baum-Neill meeting

Nathan DeHoff & J.L. Bell: Thanks for the interesting comments on "Silver
Princess." On the astronomical vagaries -- I don't think we get enough
information about astronomy-over-Oz to decide if Planetty's planet is really
some kind of sky-island, a planet in Oz's solar system, or a planet of
Anuther Star, or to figure out what kinds of forces and distances need to be
involved for her to make the journey as she describes it. If there's loose
magic floating about along the way, as there could easily enough be, that
throws off the estimates considerably. (This is, after all, the sky where an
artisan from Baum's Ev could build a ladder to the Moon.) On days of the
week -- as David Hulan pointed out, the 7-day system probably comes out of
Babylonia. The idea that a society outside that cultural range would hit on
it is somewhat unlikely (I recall hearing of cultures that had 5-day, 6-day,
or 10-day "weeks"), but not wildly unlikely.

Ruth Berman

From:  Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan at p...>
Date:  Tue Nov 12, 2002  5:49 pm
Subject:  The week

Hi All--
[The original sending of this got dumped on the floor after the plug got
pulled; now that we have a short reprieve, I'm reposting.]

"J. L. Bell" wrote:
>
> David Hulan wrote:
> <<J.L.:
> > An odd feature of Anuther Planet is that its week has seven days,
> > which, in
> > our world, is a unique feature of Judeo-Christian culture (as far as I
> > know;
> > anyone else with information on this can feel free to share).>>
>
> The remark above was from Nathan DeHoff, but I'm pleased with the
> additional information about our week's roots in Mesopotamia.
>
> Do we have any Sinophiles out there who could speak to the length of the
> week in ancient east Asia? How about in the pre-Columbian Americas?
>

Asian "week" lengths vary; in Indonesia, for example, there are multiple
re-entrant cycles of 3, 5, 7, 9 and IIRC 13 days. I'm not an expert on
those calendar systems.

But I am an expert on pre-Columbian calendars, particularly the Mayan.
The Mayan calendar doesn't have anything that I would really call a
"week," as such. There are multiple re-entrant cycles of 7, 9, 13 and
20 days, and there non-re-entrant cycles (i.e., 365 day "year") of
varying sizes, and all these cycles of different types interlock in
particular ways. A good introduction, if you can do a little
programming, is my own paper at

If you want a less technical introduction to the Mayan calendar, Michael
Coe's book, _The Maya_, gives a decent overview.

In brief: the shorter cycles that we might call "weeks" are either 13
or 20 days in length. The 13-day cycle (usually called by the Spanish
term "trecena") is a cycle of numbers from 1 to 13. The 20-day cycle,
or "veintena," is a cycle of day _names_. In this system the first day
might be "1 Imix," but the second day is "2 Ik." That is, the day
numbers and day names are both incremented for each day that passes.
The final day of the sequence is 13 Ahaw, and if you run through the
entire sequence 1 Imix to 13 Ahaw, you discover that you've occupied 260
positions, which called either the "tzolk'in" or "sacred almanac." The
tzolk'in interlocks with a rigid 365-day year called the "haab." The
end result of the haab and tzolk'in cycle is something called the
Calendar Round, a period of 18,980 days--about 52 years. There are
larger, and smaller, cycles.

I could go on--at length--but in the interests of keeping Oz mostly on
topic I'll refrain.

Metta,
Ivan

From:  "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenned at o...>
Date:  Tue Nov 26, 2002  6:22 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS Anuther Planet

It seems to me that "Silver Princess" only carries through the
"close sky" cosmos that is used throughout Oz. It is certainly
not unique to Oz; perhaps the classic visual statement is the
old Disney "Wynkin, Blynkin and Nod" short. But it is to be
found just as much in Tolkien. (And, on the other hand, its
falsity has been known to scientists since classical times.)

For a comparison with the then state of popular SF, look at
the Buster Crabbe "Flash Gordon" serials.

--
John W. Kennedy
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly;
the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
-- G. K. Chesterton, "The Man Who Was Thursday"

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Wed Nov 27, 2002  1:33 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS timing

Ken Shepherd's chronology for SILVER PRINCESS is available in the Nonestica
file section, along with similar timelines for all the other Reilly &
Lee titles. As Ken notes, SILVER PRINCESS gives an unusual number of clues
about how much time has elapsed since earlier books. It's been six years
since PURPLE PRINCE [18, 31] and three since WISHING HORSE [121]. Not
coincidentally, SILVER PRINCESS is the sixth Oz book since PURPLE PRINCE,
the third since WISHING HORSE. Thompson thus equates the passage of time
between her books with the passage of time between the events they relate.

Ken posits that the story takes place in spring. In fact, we can be certain
of its dates because Jinnicky reflects that he's in Bloff's cottage on "the
ninth of May" [213]. We can thus calculate the date of the first scene in
Randy's castle (7 May) and the date of Jinnicky's restoration (10 May), as
well as the approximate date of Gludwig's rebellion (9 October). That also
fits with the almost exactly six years since PURPLE PRINCE, which also took
place in May.

The May timeframe is especially interesting since it comes up when Jinnicky
is on Nonagon Island checking off 9's--Thompson must have had a good reason
not to set her story in September. She liked springtime for her Oz
adventures. That may reflect how most of those books were published early
in the year. (Reilly & Lee started putting out the books for Christmas only
when Neill took over.)

In sum, Thompson seem to have conceived of the books taking place around
the month they were published, in the year in which they were published or
one year before.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Wed Nov 27, 2002  1:33 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS Regalia

PURPLE PRINCE showed us rather little of Randy's kingdom of Regalia, but
there's enough to match the picture in SILVER PRINCESS, even though our
perspective continues to be almost entirely confined to one room.

PURPLE PRINCE said Regalians were "much given to feasting, celebrations and
gay processions." SILVER PRINCESS elaborates: the small kingdom has daily
judicial courts, a "weekly court reception" [18], and "seventy-seven
national holidays" [17]. Some of these holidays might be the "numerous
celebrations for national heroes" [19], and it would be nice to know who
those folks are. There seem to be a separate "Purple Guard" and "Highland
Guards" [30-1] marching for review; since the latter muster in the evening,
they might be a militia.

The Regalian economy appears to be traditionally agricultural, based on
raising goats [as on Mount Mern?--17, 19, 31] and growing grapes [31]. In
PURPLE PRINCE we first saw Randy amid the grape groves of Pumperdink. Since
Regalia has the "largest and most luscious grapes in Oz," it's no wonder
that the young wanderer wanted some--and found them more "sour" than he was
used to.

From our first look at them, Thompson has said Regalia was "a proud,
pompous, and regal little kingdom." Here she makes a big deal of this:
Regalians are "proud and independent," "superior," "top-lofty," and "stiff
and unbending" [18]--which makes one wonder why Kabumpo didn't fit right
in. Even Uncle Hoochafoo, who spent PURPLE PRINCE worrying about his
nephew, is here portrayed as snobbish and "tempery" [31]--again, rather
like a certain elegant elephant. Everyone seems to want to serve Randy,
however; unlike other young Thompson royals, he suffers from smothering
care rather than treachery or want.

The only Regalians we met in PURPLE PRINCE were Randy; his uncle
"Hoochafoo, the Foolish"; and Chalulu the Wise Man. The latter two figures
seem to be combined in the Hoochafoo of SILVER PRINCESS. He's still equally
devoted to his nephew and Regalian custom, but he's also become the king's
main advisor, without the dithering.

One of the unaddressed questions in PURPLE PRINCE was Randy's feelings
about suddenly being forced into succeeding to the throne, and thus
succeeding at those seven challenges. In this book he finally admits to
some resentment of his father for "getting me into this" [21].  It's not
clear whether the young king ever sees his eremitic sire anymore, and the
books never mention his mother at all. Uncle Hoochafoo seems to remain a
loving, if stiff, presence in the boy's life, and I rather hope Jinnicky
transported the old man to Ev for the royal wedding.

On a couple of details, SILVER PRINCESS seems to contradict PURPLE PRINCE.
In the first book, Hoochafoo addresses his nephew formally as "Randywell,
Handywell, Brandenburg Bompadoo." Six years later Kabumpo confidently
renders that as "Randywell Handywell of Brandenburg and Bompadoo" [34],
which Randy doesn't correct.

At the end of PURPLE PRINCE, Jinnicky promises Kabumpo that he'll be back
to Pumperdink in "a month and a day" so they can go on to Regalia. In
SILVER PRINCESS, Randy says to Kabumpo, "You promised to visit me six
months after I was crowned" [33]. Is it possible that the first visit took
place, but Kabumpo never returned five months later? After all, the
Regalians would surely have wanted a holiday for their new king's
coronation. On the other hand, SILVER PRINCESS gives us no sign of Johnwan,
whom Jinnicky was supposed to bring back on that occasion, or the
back-engineered wooden soldiers the Jinn had been hoping to make. Perhaps
Jinnicky ran into more difficulty with that job than he expected, and in
embarrassment put off his and Kabumpo's visit to Regalia, first for a few
months and then indefinitely.

We see practically nothing of Regalia at the end of SILVER PRINCESS. It's
not even clear how the travelers cross back over the Deadly Desert [254],
though presumably red magic is involved. Thompson says Randy's kingdom
becomes "very gay, very different, and very cozy," but the royal couple
actually seems to be there for only part of the year. If Kabumpo "spends
almost as much time with Randy and Planetty as he does with the Royal
Family of Pumperdink, and most of it in travel" [255], that implies the
couple is gone for three months, more or less. As in CAPTAIN SALT, Thompson
seems to say that holding a throne is more important than actually
governing.

Thompson appears to give Kayub the Regalian gatekeeper a lower-class
British dialect: "'Tis nothing of the sort. . . . I looked through me
little grill but a moment ago, and it's no Prince at all, but a parade! A
parade of one elephant, if you please, and when I orders him to the rear
entrance, he ups with his trunk and flings rocks over our wall!" [25] She
did the same with Puffup, Ozma's footman, in HANDY MANDY: "I hopes this
will be a lesson to you, Miss." Thompson seems to present this speech
pattern as if it were proper for pompous, low-level royal servitors.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Wed Nov 27, 2002  3:09 pm
Subject:  silver princess

Silver on the whole seems to get more of a play in Oz than gold does.
Silver: Princess, Islands (Royal Book), Mountain (Handy Mandy), Pig of
Dagupan (John Dough). Golden Islands get only a mention in Royal Book. Of
course, there are plenty of golden props around, such as the key to wind our
copper friend Tik-Tok, or the circlets quested for in Merry-Go-Round.

Ruth Berman

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Thu Nov 28, 2002  10:23 am
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS love affair

This is a long message about the romance in SILVER PRINCESS, which I and
some other members have said is our favorite part of the book's plot. For
folks who haven't read the book, therefore, there are ***SPOILERS***
throughout this message.

It's clear that Thompson plotted SILVER PRINCESS around the relationship
between Randy and Planetty. According to her niece's afterword in the Oz
Club edition, the book's first working title was PLANETTY IN OZ, and "the
plot was complete" before she began writing. (This implies that however
aimless Thompson's journeys may seem in the middle, the beginnings and ends
were clear in her mind.) Randy is the first character we see, and the
possibility of him marrying comes up as early as page 22.

SILVER PRINCESS is thus one of five Thompson Oz novels in which the young
hero falls in love with an unusual girl he meets during his adventure. In
that group it stands alone, however. The other four fall into two clear pairings:
1) KABUMPO and GRAMPA: Young prince sets out to locate a royal mate
and save his kingdom, only to find himself growing fond of a
strange-looking, recently brought-to-life girl he meets on his travels.
Just as he decides he prefers that girl, she turns out to be an enchanted
princess, so the prince gets the best of both worlds.
2) YELLOW KNIGHT and SPEEDY: Manly little American Speedy finds his
stereotypes, interests, and self-image challenged by his attraction to a
girl; in the first book he loses her to an older man, but the second
implies that the young couple will reunite for life after another few
years.

At first SILVER PRINCESS seems to follow the same path as the earlier pair
of predecessors. Uncle Hoochafoo even refers to a "proper Princess" for
Randy [23], echoing a crucial phrase in KABUMPO. Thompson shows her young
hero saying he won't marry, and Kabumpo echoes that idea. But she also
makes sure to establish that Randy is of marrying age, or close to it.
(Actually, he's a developmental age of 16 at most, even if he's lived at
least 20 years [32]. But, having introducing Randy as a young boy six years
before, Thompson can't make him 18 like Pompa in KABUMPO.)

When Planetty shows up, she also seems to fit the mold of predecessors Peg
Amy and Urtha, and Marygolden as well. They all have bodies of unusual
makeup: wood, flowers, gold, and silver mesh [103]. They're all naive
characters, new to life on Earth and therefore bringing out others'
protective instincts. But two differences keep SILVER PRINCESS from
following the same road that Thompson has taken us down before.

First, while Planetty is ignorant of basic Earth customs like eating [122],
and vulnerable to turning lifeless without her vanadium springs [106],
she's formidable in most other respects. She's self-sufficient, needing no
shelter to sleep [145] or instruction in making a fire [147]. She and Thun
actually travel in front of Kabumpo, for safety's sake [112]. She's strong
enough to lift Randy and throw him across her saddle [160]. Her voral staff
is the group's most deadly weapon [177, 180]. Neill, perhaps inadvertently,
captures this potentially intimidating element of her character on the
SILVER PRINCESS cover, where he draws Planetty as taller than Randy.

The other deviation from Thompson's earlier books is that Randy is very
quickly attracted to Planetty. I say that not just because in the
double-page spread on 98-99 the king's sword hilt appears to signal just
how glad he is to see her. (Besides, her staff is bigger.) Rather, within
fifteen pages of meeting Planetty, Randy is jealous of her admiring looks
at Kabumpo [118].

On pages 120, Randy wonders if this silver princess might stay on Earth,
and his old friend senses the young king's infatuation. (Kabumpo reacts as
many old male friends would, teasing the boy about a putative princely
rival back on Anuther Planet [121]. Later we learn that there are no
families in Planetty's society, and thus presumably no need for mates
[152].) Despite the silver princess's strength, Randy wants to save her
from "rough work" [147], and "could not bear to think of Planetty in
danger" [149].

Unlike KABUMPO and GRAMPA, therefore, the psychological side of this
romance is not a boy realizing where his affections lie, but a boy gaining
the courage to express his affections. Kabumpo jokes about Planetty as a
"splendid little castlekeeper" and "a born housewife" [Thompson's
traditional idea of gender roles], but Randy can only blush and keep quiet
[148]. He asks Kabumpo, "Isn't she pretty?" [150], and feels "extreme joy
and excitement" on hearing that she doesn't want to go home [154, 156]. But
Randy doesn't show his special feelings to Planetty herself. He talks about
the possibility that she might "come back to Oz with Kabumpo and me" [154],
keeping the pachyderm's name between them like a giant chaperon.

Because the future of this romance depends on Planetty being able to
survive on Earth, the story comes to depend on Jinnicky's magical
powers--which require restoring him to political power. Flattering Planetty
with the gift of the handbag can almost make Randy forget how difficult
this challenge will be [195-7], but the elephant cannot forget. A few pages
later, the silver princess succumbs to the shortage of vanadium and turns
into a statue [204].

Losing Planetty finally brings Randy's emotions fully into the open. When
Jinnicky suggests keeping her as an "idol" in his castle, the king's "voice
broke and he could not utter another word" [219; cf. 239]. Kabumpo speaks
almost seriously about Randy's affection: "he intends to spend the rest of
his life worshiping her" [220]. After that, the only question is how far
Randy will go for Planetty: he arranges pillows around her hard metallic
body [239], promises to follow her to Anuther Planet, and even comes to
blows with Kabumpo over this plan [243].

Fortunately, the Red Jinn's reanimating rays work. Immediately, Thompson
writes, "Randy seized Planetty's hands and looked and looked at her as if
he were never going to stop" [245]--the repetition of "looked" a simple way
to communicate his unwavering gaze. Despite what he told Kabumpo, however,
Randy still doesn't confide to Planetty that he wants to be with her
always. He may yet be embarrassed or fearful.

As with Peg Amy and Urtha, however, the silver princess has been
transformed into an ordinary human--or close to it [248-9]. Now she has to
stay on Earth. Hearing this news may make the young king feel less
intimidated, more like a rescuer. In any event, it lets Randy finally do
what Kabumpo and Jinnicky are already certain he will do [250]: he asks
Planetty, "How would you like to be Queen of Regalia?" Randy even asks
before sharing the news that Planetty can't return to her planet, so she's
not forced into assent. And she says yes, "that would be netiful"
[252].

I believe this is the first actual successful marriage proposal in all of
Thompson's Ozian romances. In KABUMPO Pompa fails with Ozma, then tells Peg
that he WON'T marry the proper princess if it means losing her, but he
doesn't actually propose to the wooden doll. (The "Then you will marry me?"
many pages later doesn't carry the same weight.) In GRAMPA Tatters is
tricked into marrying Pretty Good, and in YELLOW KNIGHT there's an
elaborate courtly ceremony for Marygolden's hand. Randy's the only groom
who has to work up the courage to propose to his beloved. (Thompson, of
course, doesn't support a woman making the first move; only unsympathetic
females like the marsh queen in YELLOW KNIGHT act that way.)

Randy's also the only young groom in Thompson's books who worries about
rejection, blushing at his unspoken feelings and fretting over whether
Planetty will leave. In KABUMPO and GRAMPA, the princes show little doubt
about being able to keep the odd girls they're fond of, as long as they
don't marry anyone else. (Both princes are dismissed by princesses they
don't want, but they don't really mind.)

The story of those two early books is thus a crush from the girl's side, in
Thompson's traditional approach: Will the boy I love come to love me? In
SILVER PRINCESS, in contrast, that question is clear from the start: of
course Randy already loves Planetty! Instead, the book shows a crush from
the boy's side: Can I win the girl I love? Planetty's strength and
self-sufficiency make the prospect of romance all the more intimidating for
Randy.

The emphasis on the boy's point of view may be reflected in how little
attention Thompson gives to Planetty's inner thoughts. For significant
stretches, KABUMPO shifts into Peg's head as she wonders about her place in
the world and her relation to Pompa. (I don't remember if GRAMPA does the
same for Urtha.) In SILVER PRINCESS there's only one short passage about
Planetty's thoughts [113], and that's all about scenery. This is really
Randy's story.

It's also the story of Randy growing up. At first, as noted above, he
disdains the thought of marriage. His idea of excitement is getting punched
in the nose [21]. Thompson refers to Randy as a "little boy" [64] and a
"helpless boy" [160]. But on page 232, after Randy's love for Planetty has
become evident to all, Thompson describes him as carrying what "a man
usually stores in his pockets." By implication, he's become a
"man," too.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Fri Nov 29, 2002  3:24 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS art

In contrast to many preceding books, Neill's chapter openers for SILVER
PRINCESS are very simple: no more decoration than three horizontal lines.
In other respects, however, his artwork seems to have been more elaborate
than in recent books. There's more variation in his lines and more detail
in his figures, especially in pictures of Jinnicky [217, 228, 236-7, 241,
253].

There are also many more double-page and full-page illustrations than in
recent books, and more detail within them. As we've noted before in this
conversation, group pictures of the Gapers [48-9] and Headmen [67] resemble
Neill's picture of the Scoodlers in the variety of fantastic features he
put on those faces. And the double-page spreads of Planetty in action
[98-9, 108-9, 186-7] show why Randy was so attracted to her.

Also notable, Neill's drawings within the chapters take up different
numbers of lines on different pages. This is a significant change: for far
back in the series, all those illustrations have had the same dimensions so
that Reilly & Lee's typesetters could just plop them into place.

The more elaborate and varied illustrations make me wonder if Reilly & Lee
and Neill had more time to complete SILVER PRINCESS than in previous years.
Dorothy Curtiss Maryott reports that her aunts sent a typed manuscript to
the publisher on 9 October 1937. According to the Oz Club calendar, the
book was published five and a half months later on 22 March 1938. That was
earlier in the calendar year than any other Thompson title. (Second
earliest was HANDY MANDY, published on 17 Apr 1937, and fourth earliest was
CAPTAIN SALT, on 24 Apr 1936.) Unfortunately, I don't know the delivery
date of any other Thompson manuscript (except OZOPLANING, which was delayed
in the writing by Thompson's creative block and accelerated in production
because of the movie). So it remains a mystery to me whether Neill had more
time to draw the SILVER PRINCESS art.

There are some other mysteries and oddities in how that art came out--

On the "This Book Belongs to" page [7], a little man in a bathing suit is
pounding spikes into a book or pile or papers with a mallet. How does this
relate to action inside the book? Is he supposed to be a Gaper gravedigger,
for instance?

Although Kabumpo ends up not caring for the Box Wood, on page 10 Neill
draws him as a boxer.

Thun's hoofs appear above Thompson's note to readers [11]. This art seems
more appropriate for the bottom of a page, with Thun's head or ears or
smoke signals poking over a line at the top. Does anyone else find this
strange?

Neill draws Uncle Hoochafoo quite differently from how he appeared in
PURPLE PRINCE [22], and also less sympathetically--almost as if he were
expecting this uncle to be a villain rather than merely a voice of
tradition. While Thompson first mentions Hoochafoo's "spectacles" [21],
Neill draws him with a monocle--which the text eventually gives him, too
[29]. Both text and art of PURPLE PRINCE show a monocle.

Somehow Neill manages to make a masked elephant look cute [28].

The direction sign on page 39 has not only a pointing hand, but a pointing
revolver!

Neill draws the Winks' pillows as Thompson describes them [44, 58], but not
the "illuminated buttons" on their jackets [44].

What are the cylindrical things Neill draws outside the Ixian farmhouse on
page 85? I'm guessing fruit baskets of some kind that would be recognizable
in the late 1930s.

The image of Gludwig's staff passing through the perfectly round hole in
Randy's chest [231] is truly spooky, and hasn't lost any of its eeriness in
the years since I first saw it. (Bob Zemeckis's film DEATH BECOMES HER
presented a very similar image, back when digital film effects were new and
special. Seems like a long way back, doesn't it?)

Jinnicky's garden contains not only an ugly bronze statue, and not only a
pitcher plant, but also teacup and bottle plants, and even an orrery bush
[236]. Thompson says his realm contains orange, lemon, palm, and "cocoanut"
trees [169]. These plants imply Jinnicky's castle is in tropical area, but
Thompson tells us it's "warmed in winter by a magic process of Jinnicky's
own invention" [194].

The face Neill drew into the candle in the rear of the picture on 228 keeps
making me try to spot facial features in the front candle as well.

To restore Planetty, Jinnicky mentions using his red incense, "red
reanimating rays" [246?], and an "old incantation" [247]--so where does
blowing bubbles while holding a hoop come in [241]?

Neill's portrait of Kabumpo on page 247 implies that even though Randy's
getting married, his big friend will remain a trunk-swinging bachelor.

Jinnicky's castle in Ev appears to have a window with the Oz logo in it
[249].

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Fri Nov 29, 2002  10:02 pm
Subject:  Neill's Ginger

I've uploaded into the Nonestica files (in the folder "Neill art") the
image of Ginger from SILVER PRINCESS, page 199, and an adaptation of it. I
think they show in more detail how Neill chose to portray this black
character.

I modified Neill's picture as my first effort to illustrate a story about
Ginger which appeared in OZIANA 2001. I'd hoped to use the same techniques
I used in illustrating another story in OZIANA 2002, adapting and combining
Neill drawings to create new but ineffably Ozzy images. Instead, I simply
came up against my limitations as a graphic artist, and the lengths Neill
had gone to in creating a clownish face for Ginger.

The image on the left of the uploaded file is Neill's picture. The image on
the right has been modified in these ways:
1) Right arm bent back at a less drastic angle.
2) Puffy white lips cut down. (The color of those lips show Neill
wasn't trying to draw someone of African ancestry; no such person has white
lips. Instead, in this image and others [172, 177, 202, 221] he took
features from blackface performers like Al Jolson, who did have a circle of
white around their mouths.)
3) Bulbous nose cut down.
4) Long eyebrows or eyelashes snipped.
5) Round, bugged-out eye replaced with Randy's eye on page 255 (the
last page) of SILVER PRINCESS.

The result is, to my eyes, an adult face, not that of an adolescent boy
like Ginger. It's still exaggerated in expression and gesture, I think, and
not yet particularly Negroid in features. But at least it looks more like a
true human being's.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  Scott Andrew Hutchins <scottandrewh at c...>
Date:  Sat Nov 30, 2002  6:15 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS

I'm up to the point where Gludwig has just been introduced.  After a sleepy
start, it starts to get going, but the book is sexist and racist. 
Planetty is a "born housewife" according to Kabumpo, and I suspect
Thompson expects us to think of her that way, despite the fact that Anuther
people are completely autonomous.  Such an origin would suggest she is
anything but a born housewife, and a creature of complete independence and
self-sufficience, save for her weekly Vanadium bath.  Vanadium has a
melting point of 3434 °F, which means that not only must Anuther be
extremely hot, it would seem Planetty would have to be so as well in order to
move and be soft to the touch. The IEs aren't so egregious, even if they're
not very interesting, since they keep the adventurers well-supplied. 
Thompson's treatment of Planetty's reaction to the black men sounds just wrong
when she herself is silver... as though an alien life form would instantly
recognize someone black as inferior, and this is before an attack, which,
Brahm, Thompson describes as a war.  This book in particular shows just
how odd a choice Thompson was to succeed Baum, as she seems so contrary to
him.  At least it's a fast read.  I read about 140 pages this afternoon,
but now I have to leave.

I'll have more as I continue.

BTW, does anyone know the deadline for the next Oziana (2004 I presume)?  I
have a new story idea that addresses IEs in a novel way.  

More about Vanadium:

Scott Andrew Hutchins
scottandrewh at comcast.net

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sat Nov 30, 2002  10:32 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS speech patterns

Thompson always comes up with novel words in her novels, mostly creatures,
oaths, and insults. In SILVER PRINCESS she actually makes those neologisms
significant to a character; through Planetty's Nuther words we sense her
unfamiliarity with Earth [103] and Randy's solicitude for her [125].

Nonetheless, there's a lot of overlap between Ozish (English) and the
language of Anuther Planet, with Thun's words showing that this similarity
extends to written language as well [97]. This convenience wouldn't be so
remarkable if CAPTAIN SALT hadn't showed us a couple of islands (Lavaland,
Patripanny) where people spoke different languages. English seems to have
made it to Anuther Planet (or back from it), but not to the leopard-men.

What do people think about Thompson providing Thun with the powers of
speech and hearing at the end of the book [245]? I'm pleased that these
changes don't come at the expense of Thun's ability to blow smoke, breathe
(cold) fire, and gallop noiselessly--the behaviors that define the colt as
a special character.

In fact, I prefer to imagine Thun doing most of his communicating in the
old way. As with the Cowardly Lion losing his courage after WIZARD and the
Glass Cat regaining her pink brains after PATCHWORK GIRL, some characters
lose most of their appeal if their "problems" are fixed too
thoroughly.

When the horrible storm blows up, Kabumpo swears, "For the love of
blue--mountains!" [79] This may be an old Munchkin oath that the elephant
recalls in a time of stress from his period with the Blue Emperor [35].

Finally, some lines that struck me as quotable--
* "Once you are married, you will feel less like a King every day." [22]
* "Never cross a Deadly Desert on an empty stomach." [77]
* "Sticking to mottoes won't get us anywhere." [77]
* "He did not wish to hurt Thun's feelings, neither did he wish to catch
fire again." [113]
* "This is the finest place to leave I've ever left." [225]

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sat Nov 30, 2002  10:32 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS art

Dave Hardenbrook wrote:
<<> Jinnicky's castle in Ev appears to have a window with the Oz logo in it
> [249].

This does seem a bit odd, doesn't it? Though I have been to the homes of
patriotic Americans which proudly displayed the Union Jack.>>

If we accept the detail from Neill's art, we might imagine Jinnicky having
a room in his castle decorated on an Oz theme as a tribute to his friends
in Oz, as a sign of his sophistication and travels, and/or as a place to
house his Ozian friends. By SILVER PRINCESS, he had visited Oz at least
twice and befriended its ruling elite.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sun Dec 1, 2002  2:50 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS death

When Kabumpo sees Gaper's Gulch, he wonders, "What is this, a cemetery? But
that could not be, for no one in Oz ever dies" [47]. Immediately after
that, the elephant leans on "a dead pine" [one of several--53], so death
does permeate the place, even if it is in Oz.

As a well-read elephant, Kabumpo would presumably know about death in
historical Oz and outside it. But since the "graves" in Gaper's Gulch had
been dug within the past year, with little vegetation growing atop them,
the land would have looked like a freshly used graveyard. That would seem
to be the logic behind Kabumpo thinking of death and then ruling that out.

Yet later, in the midst of the tickling feathers, Randy chokes out,
"They're tickling us to death. . . . I shall die laughing!" [159] Planetty
doesn't know what "death" means [163] once she sees that her Ozian friends
won't stiffen up like "Nuthers deprived of their springs" [162].  But Randy
obviously does know about death.

At this point Kabumpo once again insists that Ozians never die, but then
presents a caveat: "after all, we are not in Oz and anything might have
happened" [163]. TIK-TOK states, however. that Ozians in Ev wouldn't die,
even when attacked by a Rak.

Why would Randy think of death, then? There are some missing faces in
Regalia. Hoochafoo "had once been married" [22], which implies he's now
either widowed or divorced. Randy's father is off in "a distant cave" [21],
but his mother is nowhere to be seen at all. PURPLE PRINCE says the
Regalian dynasty has "come down in straight succession for more than a
thousand years" [129], which wouldn't mean so much if many of those rulers
had been long-lived or immortal.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sun Dec 1, 2002  2:50 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS unusual communities

Thompson seems to have believed that no journey through Oz--even just from
Regalia to the edge of the Deadly Desert--could occur without adventures. I
suspect her inspiration for the two types of people Kabumpo and Randy meet
in SILVER PRINCESS was geographical punning. They're just the sort of
creatures we'd expect to meet in an Ozian "yawning chasm" [57] and a
"Headland" [66]. Similarly, who else would live in a "Box Wood" but boxers
[129]? (Thompson also calls the Gapers a "Hiber-nation," which recalls the
Hibernians [54].)

As I noted earlier, while the Gapers, Headmen, and Boxers all try to make
Kabumpo and Randy into creatures like themselves, two of the three nations
do so out of concern for their guests, not pure hostility to people who are
different. When the Wakes discover the elephant and boy don't want to sleep
underground, they gladly escort the pair to the edge of their country
[56-8]. The Boxers similarly react out of worry [129] and distrust, but
their chief is willing to let these curious newcomers go boxless
[132]--until he discovers their barbarous customs [140]. Only the Headmen
are an unremittingly hostile people.

Furthermore, Kabumpo bears a lot of responsibility for how these encounters
start out. He keeps pushing into places despite signs and statements
warning him what's ahead [24, 43, 66, 86, 166]. Thun actually burns his way
into the Box Wood [127]. Kabumpo shows no interest in respecting the
customs of the people he visits. Even the ordinary people of Ix are ready
to attack the big intruder [89]. (It may be notable that none of the people
he meets but Planetty [101] is identified as royalty, so none has his
snobbish respect.)

In fact, the character who voices the most tolerance in all these
encounters is Snorpy the Gaper: "Oh, I say now, we cannot all be alike"
[59]. In contrast, Randy is "relieved to note...usual-looking beings like
himself" when he arrives in Ix [86]. Planetty later sighs that "people are
all the same" on Anuther Planet [139], thus expressing a problem with
sameness. In falling in love with her, Randy may grow out of his anxiety
about people aren't "usual-looking beings like himself."

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sun Dec 1, 2002  2:51 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS Neill's Ginger

Mike Harper's right that the Ginger art I uploaded appears under the
"Photos" link on the Nonestica home page, not under "Files." Its URL is
long and complex, so I didn't post it. I got into the habit of thinking of
all those stored items as "the files section" back before Yahoo merged its
groups and clubs, thus producing the separate "Photos" link. Sorry for the
confusion.

Thompson is inconsistent in her physical descriptions of Ginger, Gludwig,
and other characters she's based on Negro types, though no more
inconsistent than typical American usage. She has Randy say of the miner
army, "They're all as black as the ace of spades" [173], but this seems to
be a racial identifier, not an actual skin color, just as she calls Randy
"a white boy" [216]. Ginger, for instance, is a "small black boy" [200]
with an "ebony forehead" [218], but he actually has a "brown
face" [201].

Racial markers are most significant when Thompson describes the villain
Gludwig. She makes a big deal of how he wears a red wig [185, 231, etc.],
though she also says he has "red lashes," and those would have been hard to
fake as easily [185]. She also has Randy say that Gludwig looks like "a big
brass monkey" [230-1], even before he's actually turned to metal by
Planetty's staff. Those remaks may indicate she was thinking of Gludwig as
mulatto, with bronze skin and perhaps even reddish hair instead of black.
Or she may have been depicting Gludwig as trying to adopt the markers of a
white man/Jinnicky, not the "black man" that she says he is [185, 227,
etc.]. In drawing Gludwig, Neill seems to have set aside most of his normal
markers for a black man.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Sun Dec 1, 2002  3:57 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS art

J. L. Bell:
>Dave Hardenbrook wrote:
><<> Jinnicky's castle in Ev appears to have a window with the Oz logo in it
> > [249].
>
>This does seem a bit odd, doesn't it? Though I have been to the homes of
>patriotic Americans which proudly displayed the Union Jack.>>
>
>If we accept the detail from Neill's art, we might imagine Jinnicky having
>a room in his castle decorated on an Oz theme as a tribute to his friends
>in Oz, as a sign of his sophistication and travels, and/or as a place to
>house his Ozian friends. By SILVER PRINCESS, he had visited Oz at least
>twice and befriended its ruling elite.

Doesn't EMERALD CITY show an Oz symbol on top of Roquat's gong stand? It
wouldn't make much sense to be there, considering how much the Nome King
hates Oz. It would certainly be more appropriate for Jinnicky to use the
symbol, but this could also be another erroneous usage.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Dec 2, 2002  8:39 am
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS silver princess

Scott Hutchins wrote:
<<she is anything but a born housewife, and a creature of complete
independence and self-sufficience, save for her weekly Vanadium bath.
Vanadium has a melting point of 3434 A F, which means that not only must
Anuther be extremely hot, it would seem Planetty would have to be so as
well in order to move and be soft to the touch. >>

The Nuthers' temperature is rather a mystery. No passage says that they're
the temperature of molten vanadium, only that they enjoy baths in that
substance. Thun breathes hot flames and has a fiery mane, but Randy
actually touches him without injury [145-6]. A hundred pages later,
however, Jinnicky has turned Thun's breath into harmless "cold fire."
Between the Jinn's magic, the strange atmosphere of Anuther Planet, and
Planetty's dialect, we can't know whether the vanadium she describes works
the same way as the element on Earth.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Mon Dec 2, 2002  3:16 pm
Subject:  Silver Princess, Union Jack, and Centennial & CTC Wizards

J.L.  Bell: Enjoyred your extended comments on Regalia and Randy's romance.
Regarding Planetty and Thun's English -- I wonder if they could be speaking
a language other than English and using some kind of a translation spell
(useful sort of thing to have if interplanetary travel is at all common for
Anutherians) that doesn't work perfectly in translating their remarks.
Regarding wanting to keep Thun's smoke signals -- perhaps after gaining the
power of vocal speech he would go on using his smoke signals because he's
used to them?

Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at m...> wrote (of Jinnicky's Oz emblem): >
I have been to the homes of patriotic Americans which proudly displayed the
Union Jack. <

Especially among your Sherlockian acquaintance, I should think.

Ruth Berman

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Dec 2, 2002  4:28 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS Oz Club edition

Joe Bongiorno wrote:
<<I've found that the International Wizard of Oz Club's edition of it is
beautiful. It's what I think most would call a facsimile edition,
reproducing the hardcover book nearly identically to how it first appeared
(although modern paper quality makes the book seem thinner).>>

Technically the Oz Club and Books of Wonder reissues aren't facsimiles
since they don't EXACTLY reproduce the originals in page trim and covers,
and they have additional material inside. But especially with SILVER
PRINCESS, which never had color plates, reading either of these modern
reissues is basically the same experience as reading a Reilly & Lee copy.

Scott Hutchins wrote:
<<It is available in paperback from the International Wizard of Oz Club,
with an afterword by Dorothy Curtiss Maryott, which gives some of the
background for the book, but doesn't try to analyze it as we are.>>

I think it does try, but the analytical parts of the essay don't hold
together. It's most valuable as an insider's account of how Thompson wrote
SILVER PRINCESS.

Here's a query based on that afterword. Maryott refers to the manuscript
having been typed by Thompson's "troubled sister Janet." Does anyone know
what troubles this phrase refers to?

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Dec 2, 2002  4:28 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS celebrating differences

Scott Hutchins wrote:
<<The language of Anuther Planet I found rather disappointing, it's more
like bay talk than anyhting else.>>

I'm unfamiliar with the term "bay talk." What does it mean, and how do
Planetty's words resemble it?

<<He [Thun] was deaf? I didn't catch that.>>

Randy figures out Thun can't hear in chapter 7. That's why Planetty
communicates with her steed by taps of her staff.

<<I thought Planetty turning human was an example of xenophobia, very
different from turning an animated object like Planetty into a human, but
to turn an alien being into a Terran strikes me as more offensive than
simply not freeing slaves.>>

Within the fiction of the book, the only way Jinnicky can figure out how to
bring Planetty back to life is to turn her into a creature more like Randy.
He doesn't set out to remake her body; in fact, he's worried about having
rendered her unfit to return to Anuther Planet [248-9].

From Thompson's point of view, she could have had Jinnicky invent some sort
of earthbound vanadium spring so Planetty could continue to live on Earth
exactly as she'd done at home. Since she didn't do that, one could say the
outcome reflects some interplanetary xenophobia.

On the other hand, Thompson preserves a number of Planetty's unusual
traits. In Jinnicky's words, "The girl's hair is no longer of fine spun
metal strands, but it is...still silvery in color as her skin retains its
iridescent sheen" [248]. Thun still appears to breathe fire [246].  Thus,
the Nuthers still LOOK like unusual and scary aliens even if they aren't,
which means they might still have to deal with any bigotry in Oz. Planetty
isn't turned into just another Caucasian female like Peg Amy, Pretty Good,
and Marygolden.

<<The Boxers are a nice people, but it's unfortunate they take so poorly to
learning of others' customs.>>

Thompson makes a distinction between the Boxers and their leader Chillywalla, who's more welcoming:
the other Boxers...had never seen anything like Kabumpo in their lives and distrusted him highly.
But Chillywalla himself was quite interested in his singular visitors and inclined to be more
than friendly. [132] The Boxers warm up a little later ["cheerfully"--135], but not
for long.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Dec 2, 2002  4:28 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS Kabumpo

When Randy sees Kabumpo again, he remarks on how the elephant has grown a
foot [29]. It would make much more sense for Kabumpo to say that about the
young king, who seems to have aged from ten to as old as sixteen. But it
wouldn't be in Randy's character to make the curmudgeonly cheap pun that
Kabumpo responds with, and I guess in this case Thompson preferred humor
over sense.

Later, Randy refers to Kabumpo five times as "old Push-the-Foot" [e.g.,
83]. This seems to be another of Thompson's jokes or allusions, but does
anyone know what it means?

When Thun sets Kabumpo's robe on fire and Randy tries to beat it out [96],
that's the third time the elephant has encountered just that problem. His
robe was also set afire in Illumi Nation in KABUMPO and Torpedo Town in
PURPLE PRINCE. He really should travel with a more fire-resistant wardrobe.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Dec 2, 2002  11:55 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS Nutherspeak

Ruth Berman wrote:
<<Regarding Planetty and Thun's English -- I wonder if they could be
speaking a language other than English and using some kind of a translation
spell (useful sort of thing to have if interplanetary travel is at all
common for Anutherians) that doesn't work perfectly in translating their
remarks.>>

I don't think this would be a logical solution. Such a spell would have to
work with both Planetty's speech and Thun's written words, and have to be
available to them on immediate notice (their trip to Earth came as a
surprise, and they don't mention other such journeys). Furthermore,
Planetty would have to not mention the spell even when she and her new
Earth friends discuss translation problems and even when Randy talks to her
about "magic."

Fortunately, I don't think the Nuthers' dialect is really a problem in need
of a solution. It's just another sign that for Thompson some peoples were
far more foreign than others, even if they were nearer in geography and
biology.

<<Regarding wanting to keep Thun's smoke signals -- perhaps after gaining
the power of vocal speech he would go on using his smoke signals because
he's used to them?>>

Yes, that's what I like to think. But being able to hear would greatly
speed up Thun's communication and reduce his dependency on Planetty, so
while he could still speak in smoke his character gains a little more
potential.

Incidentally, although the name of Anuther Planet is clearly derived from
"another," we can also see a resemblance of the Nuther world to "nether"
regions. That would tie to the small possibility that the odd sky Planetty
describes is actually within a larger body, like the Mangaboos' suns.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Tue Dec 3, 2002  12:08 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS emptying pockets

Here are some last, miscellaneous thoughts about SILVER PRINCESS.

The book gives us a couple of glimpses of the minutiae of daily life in
(Thompson's) Oz. What Randy packs for his journey tells us that at least
some Ozians have underwear and toothbrushes [40]. In his pockets he also
carries "knives, rubber bands, [and] coins" [232].

SILVER PRINCESS reflects its time in its casual mentions of cigarettes in a
children's book. Thun pokes through the wall around the Box Wood "as a
cigarette burns in paper" [127]. Among the presents Randy collects in Ix
are "boxes of cigarettes" [174]. The latter makes me wonder who in Oz, Ix,
or Ev smokes--besides Thun, of course.

In the spring of 1937, while Thompson was writing SILVER PRINCESS, the
HINDENBURG blew up over New Jersey. I was therefore surprised to see her
using "like a Zeppelin" as a metaphor for Kabumpo's flight across the
Deadly Desert [79]. Another sign of loose Reilly & Lee editing?

Finally, I believe Nathan DeHoff commented on the oddity of life on the
nine-sided Nonagon Island. Bloff has "never...seen anyone in his life
but...Nonagon Islanders" [211], which makes one wonder at what age he came
to be on that island, and how.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Tue Dec 3, 2002  1:26 pm
Subject:  randy-lang, nome-names, janet thompson, and borderlands-in-oz-books

J.L.  Bell: I have a vague feeling that "push-the-foot" is slang (military
slang?) for someone on the march?

J.L. Bell & David Larson: Janet Thompson had some kind of mental illness
that prevented her from getting a job to support herself. Whatever it was,
it wasn't totally disabling. She wrote a few stories that Ruth included in
the children's page she wrote each week (1914-1921) for the Philadelphia
"Public Ledger." Janet's stories aren't as good as her sister's, but are
good enough to suggest that she had a gift for writing, too.

Nathan DeHoff: You mentioned the references to events in the lives of Trot
and Button Bright from "Sea Fairies" and "Sky Island" and Oz-book visits to
Zixi's Ix in addition to the appearance of Santa Claus (and ryls and knooks
and characters from "Zixi," "John Dough," and "Dot and Tot") in "Road"
previously discussed as examples of the continuity between Baum's Oz books
and his Borderlands books. I'd add to that the visit to Mo in "Scarecrow"
and the presence of the Wise Donkey, originally from Mo, in "Patchwork
Girl." Also the brief references to Hiland/Lowland, Ix, Noland, and
Merryland in "Magic." And, of course, Baum literally put the Borderlands
countries on the map in the back endpaper of "Tik-Tok." (He probably didn't
draw the version printed, as he wasn't a professional artist, but it's
obvious from the references to places not yet in his books that the map was
published was put together under Baum's direction.) Post-Baum, there are
also the brief references to these places in "Wishing Horse" and "Captain
Salt," and the off-stage visit of Ozma and Glinda to Burzee in "Magical
Mimics."

Ruth Berman

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Wed Dec 4, 2002  1:05 pm
Subject:  vanadium in oz

Checking a dictionary, I see that "vanadium" comes from the Old Norse
Vanadis, which is another name for the goddess Freya, one of the Vanir (the
elder gods who allied themselves with the Aesir). Seems an appropriate
element to choose for a celestial princess. The silent Thun would seem to be
named ironically for what his hooves don't do over the pavement early in the
morning.

Ruth Berman

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Wed Dec 4, 2002  7:06 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS smoking

J. L. Bell:
>SILVER PRINCESS reflects its time in its casual mentions of cigarettes in a
>children's book. Thun pokes through the wall around the Box Wood "as a
>cigarette burns in paper" [127]. Among the presents Randy collects in Ix
>are "boxes of cigarettes" [174]. The latter makes me wonder who in Oz, Ix,
>or Ev smokes--besides Thun, of course.

Cap'n Bill, Grampa, Kuma Party, and Captain Salt all smoke, and there are
probably some smokers I'm forgetting. I believe SILVER PRINCESS might be
the first book to introduce cigars and cigarettes into the Nonestic region,
though. All of the characters I just mentioned smoke pipes.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Thu Dec 5, 2002  12:46 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS vanadium

Ruth Berman wrote:
<<Checking a dictionary, I see that "vanadium" comes from the Old Norse
Vanadis, which is another name for the goddess Freya, one of the Vanir (the
elder gods who allied themselves with the Aesir). Seems an appropriate
element to choose for a celestial princess.>>

I guess on Anuther Planet, all is vanadis.

<<The silent Thun would seem to be named ironically for what his hooves
don't do over the pavement early in the morning.>>

An interesting point. Except for riding a thunderbolt (actually a form of
lightning) to Earth, Thun is actually completely un-thunderous. He'd
probably make quite a military steed, being able to carry Planetty and her
voral staff within throwing distance of an enemy without being heard.

At the end of SILVER PRINCESS, Thompson writes:

as Randy had predicted, things were very gay,
very different, and very cozy in that regal and
mountainous little Kingdom. Planetty's staff,
powerful as ever, was a great help and
protection to the young rulers, and the small
red handbag that packed itself went on many
journeys with the little Queen of the country.

The first implication of that mention of the staff implies it was useful in
Regalia, which sounds very odd indeed. Regalians are stiff enough without
being turned into metal statues! But Thompson probably meant the staff
provided useful protection while the couple traveled around Oz, as the next
paragraph describes. Does that mean Oz is, like Jinnicky's part of Ev,
peppered with petrified people and creatures who got in Planetty's way?

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Thu Dec 5, 2002  4:05 pm
Subject:  Slver Princess and Chinese Baum

"J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
> [SILVER PRINCESS] gives us a couple of glimpses of the minutiae of daily
life in (Thompson's) Oz. What Randy packs for his journey tells us that at
least some Ozians have underwear and toothbrushes [40]. In his pockets he
also carries "knives, rubber bands, [and] coins" [232]. >

Some of RPT's books show various outlying areas of Oz (not Emerald City or
central areas, I think?) as using coins, so perhaps Regalia is one that
does, too. Then again, even if Randy doesn't consider coins as useful as the
knives and rubber bands would be, perhaps he carries them as interesting
collector items, as he might shells or minerals.

> SILVER PRINCESS reflects its time in its casual mentions of cigarettes in
a children's book. Thun pokes through the wall around the Box Wood "as a
cigarette burns in paper" [127]. Among the presents Randy collects in Ix are
"boxes of cigarettes" [174]. The latter makes me wonder who in Oz, Ix, or Ev
smokes--besides Thun, of course. >

Nathan DeHoff mentioned assorted pipe smokers. It looks as if Cap'n Bill,
who is from U.S. rather than from Oz, is the only one as early as Baum, but
it occurs to me that maybe Zixi seems like the sort of person who would
think it was glamorous to smoke and might do it. By Baum's standards, that
would be a very daring thing for a woman to do, but then Zixi is a very
daring woman. (By the time RPT was writing her Oz books, it would be less
daring -- although probably at least somewhat so.) I suppose we get to
assume that smokers in Oz don't get cancer. That good fortune might or might
not apply to the Borderlands, but Zixi's magic would probably be able to
cope with the danger, if needed?
 
Ruth Berman

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Thu Dec 5, 2002  7:25 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] Ozian smokers

Ruth:
>Nathan DeHoff mentioned assorted pipe smokers. It looks as if Cap'n Bill,
>who is from U.S. rather than from Oz, is the only one as early as Baum, but
>it occurs to me that maybe Zixi seems like the sort of person who would
>think it was glamorous to smoke and might do it.

Several Nomes, including Ruggedo, Kaliko, and Guph, also smoke pipes. I had
forgotten about them.

>I suppose we get to
>assume that smokers in Oz don't get cancer. That good fortune might or
>might
>not apply to the Borderlands, but Zixi's magic would probably be able to
>cope with the danger, if needed?

Maybe smoking, and not simple old age, is the REAL reason why Zixi looks so
haggard in her reflection.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Thu Dec 5, 2002  10:11 pm
Subject:  tobacco in Oz

Ruth Berman wrote:
<<I suppose we get to assume that smokers in Oz don't get cancer.  That good
fortune might or might not apply to the Borderlands, but Zixi's magic would
probably be able to cope with the danger, if needed?>>

Cancer presents an interesting gedanken case study for immortality in Oz.
Doctors now say that the problem with cancerous cells is that they don't
die as normal cells do--they keep growing and multiplying in ways unhealthy
to the organism. In a sense, cancer is a disease of being not mortal
enough, if only in a small part of one's body.

An Ozian smoker might conceivably develop cancer that never becomes fatal,
but is nonetheless debilitating or disfiguring. Or, since Ozians never age,
such cancerous cells might arise but never spread.

Ozians' immortality doesn't necessarily extend to immigrants from America,
Baum's later books remind us. Cap'n Bill's smoking may therefore be
inflicting injuries on his body, just as serious accidents would do. But
he's not growing older, either.

As for Zixi possibly being one of the few female smokers in the Nonestic
region, ZIXI makes clear that her form of immortality is merely cosmetic,
so she could presumably become ill. She can fool people with her magic, but
not a mirror--so could she fake a chest X-ray?

Among Ozians, Reera seems like the most likely female smoker, especially in
one of her temporary shapes. At the very least, she'd do exactly what she
wants to do.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Fri Dec 6, 2002  11:06 am
Subject:  petrification in oz

"J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...> wrote:
> The first implication of that mention of the staff implies it was useful
in Regalia, which sounds very odd indeed. Regalians are stiff enough without
being turned into metal statues! But Thompson probably meant the staff
provided useful protection while the couple traveled around Oz, as the next
paragraph describes. Does that mean Oz is, like Jinnicky's part of Ev,
peppered with petrified people and creatures who got in Planetty's way?>

It does sound as if that's the result. You'd think at some point Ozma would
call them in on an unauthorized-magic charge -- and maybe at that point make
it her business to do some depetrification? Probably not involving the left
wing of a yellow butterfly (although I still think that ingredient could be
managed by sculpting a fly's left wing out of butter). Query: would the
Powder of Life, if duly concocted over the seven years enusing actually
restore the petrified to themselves -- to their human selves -- or would it
result in the presence of many Benny-like live statues stomping in their
granitically weighty way about the land? But the Wizard's depetrification
spell restores fleshliness as well as being faster acting (starts to sound
like a bromo seltzer commercial).

Ruth Berman

From:  Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at m...>
Date:  Mon Dec 9, 2002  7:49 pm
Subject:  Fwd: SILVER PRINCESS petrification (Petrifaction?)

This is a forwarded message
From: "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
To: "INTERNET:Nonestica-owner at yahoogroups.com"
<Nonestica-owner at yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 9, 2002, 9:44:08 AM
Subject: SILVER PRINCESS petrification (Petrifaction?)

===8<==============Original message text===============
Ruth Berman wrote:
<<You'd think at some point Ozma would call them in on an
unauthorized-magic charge -- and maybe at that point make it her business
to do some depetrification? Probably not involving the left wing of a
yellow butterfly>>

Planetty's staff turns people into metal statues, Thompson says, while Dr.
Pipt's Liquid of Petrifaction turns them into marble. So I agree that it's
unlikely the same antidote would work against both forms of petrification.
The Wizard and Jinnicky also have different means of restoring petrified
people, and the stories of Benny, Marygolden, and others may imply even
more methods for animating statues.

Just after trading with Crooked Magician in LAND, Mombi starts work on a
liquid that turns someone into a marble statue. She implies it must be
drunk, while in PATCHWORK GIRL Dr. Pipt's works on contact. Mombi seems
quite certain her formula will work, implying she didn't just trade for it,
and also hints she didn't share this powerful secret with the magician.
Nonetheless, it seems significant that both Mombi and Dr. Pipt have such a
liquid in their homes--at the very least, both magic-workers want to turn
things into marble.

<<would the Powder of Life, if duly concocted over the seven years enusing
actually restore the petrified to themselves -- to their human selves -- or
would it result in the presence of many Benny-like live statues stomping in
their granitically weighty way about the land? But the Wizard's
depetrification spell restores fleshliness as well as being faster acting
(starts to sound like a bromo seltzer commercial).>>

I always pictured the Powder of Life turning Unc Nunkie and Margolotte into
live marble statues, and felt that would be a poor second choice for the
people who love them. The antidote involving the left wing of a butterfly,
however, I imagined restoring them to flesh as before.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Thu Dec 12, 2002  2:26 pm
Subject:  A few SILVER PRINCESS oddities

Here are just a few random comments I have about the BCF:

On p. 41, Kabumpo says that he "was sure this road ran straight to the
Deadly Desert." Why would anyone make a road to there? (Then again, I
think the road in ROAD did pretty much the same thing, although it was on
the non-Ozian side of the desert.)

On p. 83, Kabumpo and Randy are unsure as to whether they landed in Ix or
Noland. After Thompson confirms that it is Ix (on p. 86), the characters
somehow also know that it is, even though they apparently have no proof of
this.

Thun pulls Kabumpo out of the field of feathers "as easily as if he had been
a sack of potatoes instead of a two-ton elephant" (p. 161). Don't elephants
usually weigh considerably more than two tons? I remember Melody Grandy (I
think) pointing out that Kabumpo also should have been bigger in comparison
to Nandywog. Thompson, for all her fondness for elephants, didn't seem to
know just how big they were (or she intended Kabumpo to be a small elephant,
but I doubt that's the case).

After seeing Gludwig's sign, Randy and Kabumpo guess that Gludwig "was the
fellow who planted those feathers" (p. 168). Later on, however, we learn
that "in [Gludwig's] whole seven months in the castle he had not discovered
a way to use any of the Red Jinn's magic, nor been able to cast a single
spell or transformation" (pp. 226-227). This implies that Gludwig didn't
plant the feathers, and leaves open the question as to who DID plant them.

Nathan

From:  "Opal Sound" <opalsound at m...>
Date:  Thu Dec 12, 2002  11:10 pm
Subject:  Silver Princess Oddities & Art

I finally received my very own copy of Silver
Princess from Books of Wonder today and breezed right through it, then checked
out a bunch of the posts regarding it.  I am amazed at Thompson's ability
to write smoothly and grippingly, though I must admit I was totally stalled and
shocked by the depiction of black slaves, assuming that era was no longer
romanticized.

One thing I noticed was several oddities. 
Nathan nailed some I didn't catch, but these included, it makes me think
Thompson was tip-toeing in scifi without jumping it.  Maybe this is
because scifi was hardly more than other-planet and/or super-science fantasy in
her era.  I'm not sure how close in time she lived to Edgar Rice Burroughs
or H.G. Wells, but back then, scifi was probably not distinguished from
science.

She has vanadium springs as the source of
creation for all the Nuthers, but Anuther Planet is described so boringly, I
don't see how princesses could arise, maybe some tribes killing beasts, but
nothing more.  Another thing that is not clear is how many Nuthers are
made from each spring.  Is Planetty from a large or royal spring?  Do
the beasts feed of the vanadian Nuthers?  Is Thun from his own
spring?  The whole description of the planet left me totally
bewildered.  As to the super-hot vanadium springs, my guess is that they
contained a vanadium-base, much as we contain a carbon-base, but that it may
have been mixed in with water or some other combination of elements which would
not requires such great heat, but then again, I don't think Thompson was
writing top-notch scifi for adult believability.  Nonetheless, it is
strange, and my not-just-vanadium springs seems to work best so Planetty is not
TOO HOT.

Neill definitely made Planetty hotter than
Thompson described her, and I ain't talking vanadium either.  She was
depicted as a hot blonde (excuse the personal bias), not a gal made of
chain-mail as Thompson described.  On the cover, you'll also notice
neither Planetty nor Thun have the yellow eyes Thompson describes.  It
makes you wonder how Thompson and Baum imagined their characters before they
were drawn.  Neill shattered the cute image I had of Jinnicky.  Of
course, so did Thompson when I began reading about his little slave empire,
which contradicted the description she gave of his good nature.  I also
felt sorry for the Blacks who had been metalized into statues, which Jinnicky
decided to keep that way as a warning.

>>On p. 41, Kabumpo says that he "was sure this road ran straight to the
Deadly Desert."  Why would anyone make a road to there?  (Then again, I
think the road in ROAD did pretty much the same thing, although it was on
the non-Ozian side of the desert.)

She probably didn't think this out.  In a
children's story, not having a road could complicate the plot above what a
child would care to read.  

>>On p. 83, Kabumpo and Randy are unsure as to whether they landed in Ix or
Noland.  After Thompson confirms that it is Ix (on p. 86), the characters
somehow also know that it is, even though they apparently have no proof of
this.

I thought this was strange, too.  My guess is some manner of dress, or perhaps mannerisms or architecture.

>>Thun pulls Kabumpo out of the field of feathers "as easily as if he had been
a sack of potatoes instead of a two-ton elephant" (p. 161).  Don't elephants
usually weigh considerably more than two tons?  I remember Melody Grandy (I
think) pointing out that Kabumpo also should have been bigger in comparison
to Nandywog.  Thompson, for all her fondness for elephants, didn't seem to 
know just how big they were (or she intended Kabumpo to be a small elephant,
but I doubt that's the case).  

I'd agree she just didn't know his weight.  I don't think most people know how much elephants weigh.

>>After seeing Gludwig's sign, Randy and Kabumpo guess that Gludwig "was the
fellow who planted those feathers" (p. 168).  Later on, however, we learn
that "in [Gludwig's] whole seven months in the castle he had not discovered
a way to use any of the Red Jinn's magic, nor been able to cast a single
spell or transformation" (pp. 226-227).  This implies that Gludwig didn't
plant the feathers, and leaves open the question as to who DID plant them.

My guess is that Gludwig did indeed plant the
feathers, as the sign Randy and Kabumpo soon read indicates.  My guess is
that the feathers were already magically activated when brought there, and all
Gludwig had to do was let them out of the bag, so to speak, but he was
incapable of making such feathers himself.  I think this is a good example
of something what I can only call "contradictory acceptance". 
Authors often make minor contradictions, and I think the best resolution is the
aforementioned.

Great insights Nathan in your recent post, and thank you J.L. and Ruth for the
plentiful discussion of Silver Princess, which I am still pouring over.  I
loved the vanadium discussion.

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Fri Dec 13, 2002  10:08 am
Subject:  silver princess riddle guesses

"Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...> wrote:
> On p. 41, Kabumpo says that he "was sure this road ran straight to the
Deadly Desert." Why would anyone make a road to there? (Then again, I
think the road in ROAD did pretty much the same thing, although it was on
the non-Ozian side of the desert.)

Tourist attraction with interesting sand-devils forming to photograph?
Leftovers from a time when it wasn't so Deadly and there were a couple of
trade-routes that crossed between Oz and the Borderlands? Part of some early
Oz monarch's bold mass transit plan that included a ring road and
spoke-roads to access it?

> On p. 83, Kabumpo and Randy are unsure as to whether they landed in Ix or
Noland. After Thompson confirms that it is Ix (on p. 86), the characters
somehow also know that it is, even though they apparently have no proof of
this. >

Passed a signpost? Caught sight of a couple of lost coins with Zixi's
portrait on the heads side? Kabumpo asked an alligator?

> After seeing Gludwig's sign, Randy and Kabumpo guess that Gludwig "was the
fellow who planted those feathers" (p. 168). Later on, however, we learn
that "in [Gludwig's] whole seven months in the castle he had not discovered
a way to use any of the Red Jinn's magic, nor been able to cast a single
spell or transformation" (pp. 226-227). This implies that Gludwig didn't
plant the feathers, and leaves open the question as to who DID plant them.
>

Might have been a failed experiment of Jinnicky's that he'd been meaning to
plow over before being interrupted by insurrection? Either Jinnicky or Zixi
(or maybe less well known people, like Kadj the Conjuror or Cinderbutton the
Witch) could have planted them in error in working on something else and not
realized what had grown? Or, depending on how rigidly not discovering a way
to use any of the Red Jinn's magic is interpreted, it might leave room for
Gludwig to find a packet of seeds labeled "quick-growing! protects against
cutworms and other invaders! Caution: dangerous to invaders" and plant them?
Strictly speaking, that would be using the RJ's magic, but if "use" is
interpreted as meaning learn how to replicate or control it, maybe not?

Ruth Berman

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Fri Dec 13, 2002  3:40 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] More on the SILVER PRINCESS oddities

Michael Johnson:
>She has vanadium springs as the source of creation for all the Nuthers, but
>Anuther Planet is described so boringly, I don't see how princesses could
>arise, maybe some tribes killing beasts, but nothing more.

I think Planetty's descriptions of the Nuthers keeping to themselves makes
the concept of princesses (i.e., government) even more unlikely. J. L. Bell
suggested that maybe everyone on the planet is a prince or princess.

>Neill definitely made Planetty hotter than Thompson described her, and I
>ain't talking vanadium either. She was depicted as a hot blonde (excuse
>the personal bias), not a gal made of chain-mail as Thompson described.  On
>the cover, you'll also notice neither Planetty nor Thun have the yellow
>eyes Thompson describes.

Neill didn't always have a say in how the pictures were colored, though.

>It makes you wonder how Thompson and Baum imagined their characters before
>they were drawn.

I seem to recall reading that Baum pretty much never pictured his characters
in the same way Neill did. I think Thompson was more satisfied with Neill's
drawings, but that might have something to do with the fact that she
probably first saw Baum's text accompanied by Neill's illustrations, and
thought of them (as many of the rest of us have, I'm sure) as how they
really looked.

>Neill shattered the cute image I had of Jinnicky.

The color plate of him in JACK PUMPKINHEAD is even worse in this respect,
making him look frightening.

>My guess is that Gludwig did indeed plant the feathers, as the sign Randy
>and Kabumpo soon read indicates. My guess is that the feathers were
>already magically activated when brought there, and all Gludwig had to do
>was let them out of the bag, so to speak, but he was incapable of making
>such feathers himself.

That sounds like a good guess to me.

Ruth:
> > On p. 83, Kabumpo and Randy are unsure as to whether they landed in Ix
>or
>Noland. After Thompson confirms that it is Ix (on p. 86), the characters
>somehow also know that it is, even though they apparently have no proof of
>this. >
>
>Passed a signpost? Caught sight of a couple of lost coins with Zixi's
>portrait on the heads side? Kabumpo asked an alligator?

Would he have been able to communicate with a Nolandish alligator, though?
I think Zixi was only able to do so because of her witchcraft.

Incidentally, one more oddity I found: Randy, on p. 172, says, "It would
have been too bad to have the first person outside of ourselves that
Planetty met turn out a villain." Has he already forgotten about the
Boxers? Or does he not consider them to be people? (And if the latter is
true, what makes him think Gludwig IS a person?)

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sat Dec 14, 2002  1:35 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS oddities

Michael Johnson wrote of Planetty:
<<She has vanadium springs as the source of creation for all the Nuthers,
but Anuther Planet is described so boringly, I don't see how princesses
could arise, maybe some tribes killing beasts, but nothing more.>>

Thun introduces his "Mistress Planetty, Princess of Anuther Planet!", but
we never learn what it means to be a "princess" there. Kabumpo and Randy
interpret that word through their Ozian language and understand her to be
royalty--and thus a suitable wife for Randy. (In Baum, commoners can marry
royalty, but Thompson doesn't let that happen.)

But according to Planetty, "people are all the same" on her planet. We get
no hints of a society that includes rank and government. That might imply
that the Nuther word "princess" is actually the equivalent of "young woman"
or even "human."

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<After seeing Gludwig's sign, Randy and Kabumpo guess that Gludwig "was
the fellow who planted those feathers" (p. 168). Later on, however, we
learn that "in [Gludwig's] whole seven months in the castle he had not
discovered a way to use any of the Red Jinn's magic, nor been able to cast
a single spell or transformation" (pp. 226-227). This implies that Gludwig
didn't plant the feathers, and leaves open the question as to who DID plant
them.>>

The conclusion that Gludwig didn't plant the feathers rests on the
assumption that those feathers are magical. But what if feathers can grow
like plants in the Nonestic region? We know of stranger crops in Ev; more
plants in our part of the globe resemble feathers than they do dinner
pails. Gludwig may have cultivated naturally growing flora into a barrier
against unwelcome visitors. Or the feather field may long have been there,
a natural hazard like the poppy field in WIZARD or the big plants in
PATCHWORK GIRL.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Sun Dec 15, 2002  7:42 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] Boxers and Baum books

Scott:
>Nathan:
>
> > Incidentally, one more oddity I found: Randy, on p. 172, says, "It would
> > have been too bad to have the first person outside of ourselves that
> > Planetty met turn out a villain." Has he already forgotten about the
> > Boxers? Or does he not consider them to be people? (And if the latter
>is
> > true, what makes him think Gludwig IS a person?)
>
>I wouldn't consider the Boxers to be villains, unlike the Headlanders and
>some of Thompson's other unpleasant groups.

I don't consider them villains, either, and neither did Randy, as far as I
could tell. Regardless of this, the quote implies that Planetty has not yet
met anyone other than Kabumpo and Randy, which is totally wrong no matter
how you look at it.

Nathan

From:  "Opal Sound" <opalsound at m...>
Date:  Sun Dec 15, 2002  10:07 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS oddities

Perhaps this is like Ev where Ev-rybody is a
prince and princess.  If it's not Ev, it's one of Oz's outland.  I
remember reading about some land in Oz where everyone is a prince or princess,
and I believe it is Ev, but in any case, maybe this is the case with Planetty
in Thompson's mind.  She's a princess to her horse, like I'm a master to
my dogs.  This would allow people to all be the same.  Perhaps they
all have thunderhorses, but that's it.  I wonder what happens when one
dies.  Does the spring make another Nuther?

In real life, mountain lions will spend the
majority of their time in solitude, but they are definitely the king (or
queen) of their domain, the territory they claim for themselves. 
Like a mountain lion, we know there were wild beasts which had to be killed,
because they were dangerous to the Nuthers.  In other words, one of these
beasts could potentially kill a Nuther (no pun intended).

The odd thing is that there appears to be at
least some level of social interaction.  What ever the zorodell is which
Planetty and Thun were on their way to, we know it is an event she desires to
attend, and where their are events, social interaction is implied. 
Perhaps the social interaction is like a party, but lighter in nature. 
After all, Nuthers don't even seem to reproduce.  The springs make them,
and that's it.

I sure wish Ruth were around to elaborate on the
nature of Anuther Planet.  Does anyone know if any Oz author has
elaborated on this planet?  It would be exciting to read?

----- Original Message -----

From: J. L.  Bell
To: INTERNET:Nonestica at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:35 AM
Subject: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS oddities

Michael Johnson wrote of Planetty:
<<She has vanadium springs as the source of creation for all the Nuthers,
but Anuther Planet is described so boringly, I don't see how princesses
could arise, maybe some tribes killing beasts, but nothing more.>>

Thun introduces his "Mistress Planetty, Princess of Anuther Planet!", but
we never learn what it means to be a "princess" there. Kabumpo and Randy
interpret that word through their Ozian language and understand her to be
royalty--and thus a suitable wife for Randy. (In Baum, commoners can marry
royalty, but Thompson doesn't let that happen.)

But according to Planetty, "people are all the same" on her planet.  We get
no hints of a society that includes rank and government. That might imply
that the Nuther word "princess" is actually the equivalent of "young woman"
or even "human."

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<After seeing Gludwig's sign, Randy and Kabumpo guess that Gludwig "was
the fellow who planted those feathers" (p. 168).  Later on, however, we
learn that "in [Gludwig's] whole seven months in the castle he had not
discovered a way to use any of the Red Jinn's magic, nor been able to cast
a single spell or transformation" (pp. 226-227).  This implies that Gludwig
didn't plant the feathers, and leaves open the question as to who DID plant
them.>>

The conclusion that Gludwig didn't plant the feathers rests on the
assumption that those feathers are magical. But what if feathers can grow
like plants in the Nonestic region? We know of stranger crops in Ev; more
plants in our part of the globe resemble feathers than they do dinner
pails. Gludwig may have cultivated naturally growing flora into a barrier
against unwelcome visitors. Or the feather field may long have been there,
a natural hazard like the poppy field in WIZARD or the big plants in
PATCHWORK GIRL.

J. L.
Bell                 
JnoLBell at compuserve.com

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Mon Dec 16, 2002  12:06 pm
Subject:  silver princess & Oz editions
 
"Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...> wrote:
> Would he [Kabumpo] have been able to communicate with a Nolandish
alligator, though? I think Zixi was only able to do so because of her
witchcraft. <

Randy wouldn't be able to, and Zixi as a human needs her witchcraft to talk
to the animals, but Kabumpo should be able to, judging by the example of the
mutual comprehension between the Mifket Island Owl and Pitty-Pat the Rabbit.
Possibly the fact that Kabumpo is an Oz elephant and able to talk to humans
would have the side-effect of making him unable to talk to animals that
don't have the gift of human-speech, but I don't recall any examples that
would show that such a side-effect was something any of the Oz authors had
in mind.

> Incidentally, one more oddity I found: Randy, on p. 172, says, "It would
have been too bad to have the first person outside of ourselves that
Planetty met turn out a villain." Has he already forgotten about the
Boxers? <

Maybe he doesn't feel he got to know even Chillywalla well enough to have
much sense of what he's like as an individual, having met all the Boxers in
a crowd as they did?

"Opal Sound" <opalsound at m...>
wrote:
> Perhaps this [royalty on Anuther Planet] is like Ev where Ev-rybody is a
prince and princess. If it's not Ev, it's one of Oz's outland. I remember
reading about some land in Oz where everyone is a prince or princess, and I
believe it is Ev, but in any case, maybe this is the case with Planetty in
Thompson's mind. <

Not Ev, but it's a nice pun. I think you're thinking of the Fairyland of
Tititihoochoo, where everyone is a king or queen except Titiihoochoo
himself, who rules as the only Private Citizen.

> Does anyone know if any Oz author has elaborated on this planet? It would
be exciting to read? <

No one -- the descriptions in "Silver Princess" are all. If you wanted to
write a story elaborating on life on Planetty's home-planet, no doubt J.L.
Bell would be interested in seeing it for consideration for
"Oziana."

Ruth Berman

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Mon Dec 16, 2002  12:15 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] SILVER PRINCESS oddities

Michael Johnson:
>Perhaps this is like Ev where Ev-rybody is a prince and princess.

Ev has a large royal family, but there are plenty of commoners, I'm sure.

>If it's not Ev, it's one of Oz's outland. I remember reading about some
>land in Oz where everyone is a prince or princess, and I believe it is Ev,
>but in any case, maybe this is the case with Planetty in Thompson's mind.

I think you're either getting this confused with a statement in WHO'S WHO
(when Snow quotes George MacDonald as saying that every boy or girl is a
prince or princess until he or she does something no prince or princess
would do), or maybe thinking of Tititi-Hoochoo's country, in which almost
everyone is a king or queen. I can't think of any place that fits your
description that accurately.

>I wonder what happens when one dies. Does the spring make another Nuther?

Planetty seems to be unfamiliar with the concept of death, as evidenced from
her conversation with Kabumpo about the feathers. It's possible that a
Nuther will live forever provided they continue to receive their weekly
vanadium showers. As you mention, though, there ARE "bad beasts and
Nuthers," and maybe some of these can kill or destroy the people of
Anuther
Planet. They presumably don't call it death, but whether this is because of
the language barrier or because Anuther Planet is protected by an Oz-like
no-death enchantment is unknown.

>The odd thing is that there appears to be at least some level of social
>interaction. What ever the zorodell is which Planetty and Thun were on
>their way to, we know it is an event she desires to attend, and where their
>are events, social interaction is implied.

Couldn't it just be a place, and not an event?

>I sure wish Ruth were around to elaborate on the nature of Anuther Planet.
>Does anyone know if any Oz author has elaborated on this planet? It would
>be exciting to read?

All I can think of is the brief visit in Atticus Gannaway's SINISTER GASES
IN OZ, but that doesn't tell us much more about the planet, aside from the
fact that the raccoons there apparently CAN talk.

Nathan

From:  "Opal Sound" <opalsound at m...>
Date:  Tue Dec 17, 2002  1:16 am
Subject:  Jinjinland, Jinn, & Nuther Royalty

Jinjinland & Jinn

In response to Nathan's post which was shortly
followed by J.L., Thank you both.  It was the Tititi-Hoochoo story, the
land without a name.  Dave Hardenbrook calls it Antozia, I call it
Jinjinland, but it slipped my mind since the land had no name in the
book, just the place on the other side of the tube.  I can't even remember
the name of the book, even though I loved it.  It's on Dave's CD.  

The land was pretty much princes and princesses
and kings and queens.  I assumed this like a father being the king of his
household, the mother it's queen, and the children royalty by this right, so
the boundaries were very, very small.  It's odd that the Jinjin
(Tititi-Hoochoo) was called a Private Citizen, since he seemed more
like the Supreme Chief Justice.  

A lot of Arab influence seems to be spilling in
the lands outside of Oz.  Tarara comes to mind.  So does the turbaned
Ginger who comes to the bell like a genie from it's lamp, and of course Jinn is
the Arabic plural for genie.  The singular is jinni, but jinn is used as a
generic description, like "man".  Of course the Jinjin himself,
that would mean, roughly, genie of genies, a super-genie, a genie par
excellence, and we should not be surprised that Jinnicky is called the red
jinn, his jar reminiscent of the genie's magic lamp.

Your theory is interesting, rulers of aspects of
the natural world, if I'm interpreting you correctly.  Nature does have
several functions, and this opens the door to an exciting possibility for
Jinjinland, but Anuther Planet is still stuck with the fact that everyone is
basically the same.

Nuther Royalty

There are a lot of possibilities for Nuther
Royalty.  We know the beings are of a hot metallic nature who can
distinguish vanadium from other metals.  We know tree-like metal shafts
grow there.  We know a zorodell is a place or event Nuthers can go
to.  We know there are wild beasts the staff needs to tame, and if death
doesn't happen, assuming they always go back to their springs weekly
(sonestorily), perhaps they fear the beasts because they can damage their
bodies to some level of discomfort, though it is probably reparable. 

Maybe the planet itself is the king, and all the
Thunderhorses and Nuthers are his children.  The children are obviously
intelligent enough to distinguish vanadium from non-vanadium, to recognize day
and night on their planet, and to have designed a seven-day period similar to
ours.  Why is Planetty bored?  Perhaps she is so excited to see such
an abundant variety of color in Oz, that it made reflection on a life which may
not be a whole lot more dull than ours.  Perhaps I'm reading a whole lot
into Silver Princess, but it's fun to make deductions about Oz-related worlds
to allow those worlds to come alive.

----- Original Message -----

From: J. L.  Bell 
To: INTERNET:Nonestica at yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:54 PM 
Subject: [Nonestica] all must have crowns?

Michael Johnson wrote:
<<Perhaps this is like Ev where Ev-rybody is a prince and princess.  If
it's not Ev, it's one of Oz's outland.  I remember reading about some land
in Oz where everyone is a prince or princess, and I believe it is Ev, but
in any case, maybe this is the case with Planetty in Thompson's mind.>>

Baum's Ev has a large royal family but also subjects who aren't said to be
royal, including a maid.

The land of Tititi-Hoochoo has many kings and queens, ruled by the only
Private Citizen. But those kings and queens have servitors and attendants
who aren't royal. They rule realms of the natural world, it appears, rather
than political areas.

At one point, I believe, Baum or Thompson remarks about all little boys and
girls deserving to be princes and princesses, or something like that.
That's the closest I can remember to the situation you describe. But I
think that was a metaphor for how children should be loved and treated, not
a statement about any particular society in the Oz universe. I can't find
that passage now to be sure, however.

J. L.  Bell                 
JnoLBell at compuserve.com

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Tue Dec 17, 2002  3:26 pm
Subject:  SILVER PRINCESS Anuther Planet

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<Planetty seems to be unfamiliar with the concept of death, as evidenced
from her conversation with Kabumpo about the feathers. It's possible that
a Nuther will live forever provided they continue to receive their weekly
vanadium showers. As you mention, though, there ARE "bad beasts and
Nuthers," and maybe some of these can kill or destroy the people of Anuther
Planet. They presumably don't call it death, but whether this is because
of the language barrier or because Anuther Planet is protected by an
Oz-like no-death enchantment is unknown.>>

My impression of the Nuthers is that they're extremely durable--they're
made of metal, after all. The only vulnerability Planetty and Thun show is
becoming petrified when they don't have their vanadium baths, or when
they're hit with a voral staff. So on Anuther Planet, the only form of
"death" might be freezing up. And in that event, a Nuther's friends might
simply shove him or her into a spring for reanimation.

That still leaves the question of what sort of dangers or inconveniences
those bad beasts pose.

Michael Johnson wrote:
<<I sure wish Ruth were around to elaborate on the nature of Anuther
Planet. Does anyone know if any Oz author has elaborated on this planet?
It would be exciting to read?>>

I'm not sure how exciting Anuther Planet itself would be--to me it sounds
as monotonous as the planet of the purple pandas. [That sentence dates me
fairly exactly, doesn't it?] But a conflict between the Nuther way of life
and someone from off the planet--or a Nuther like Planetty who's enjoyed
life elsewhere--could fuel a story.

There's also potential in tales of Randy, Planetty, Thun, and perhaps
Kabumpo traveling through Oz, as the end of SILVER PRINCESS mentions.
Because all those characters are in the public domain (at least insofar as
they appear in KABUMPO, WISHING HORSE, and SILVER PRINCESS), that story
wouldn't have restrictions from existing copyrights. But of course either
of these types of stories could appear in OZIANA 2004 or beyond.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Tue Dec 17, 2002  6:05 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] Jinjinland, Jinn, & Nuther Royalty

Michael Johnson:
>In response to Nathan's post which was shortly followed by J.L., Thank you
>both. It was the Tititi-Hoochoo story, the land without a name. Dave
>Hardenbrook calls it Antozia, I call it Jinjinland, but it slipped my mind
>since the land had no name in the book, just the place on the other side of
>the tube.

I believe the name "Antozia" was actually created by Aaron Adelman, who made
it the name of an entire continent, with Tititi-Hoochoo's domain being only
one country there. I think he also placed Sachorhineolaland, the homeland
of Sacho from THE SEA FAIRIES, on this contienent. This was for his Magic
Machine project, though, and I'm pretty sure he's abandoned that, so I don't
know if he's going to use these ideas anywhere or not.

>I can't even remember the name of the book, even though I loved it.  It's
>on Dave's CD.

The book is TIK-TOK.

>It's odd that the Jinjin (Tititi-Hoochoo) was called a Private Citizen,
>since he seemed more like the Supreme Chief Justice.

I think this is another example of Baumian role reversal. Along the lines
of the Cowardly Lion, the Foolish Owl, and the Wise Donkey, we have the
Private Citizen who rules over royalty.

>A lot of Arab influence seems to be spilling in the lands outside of Oz.
>Tarara comes to mind.

Tarara seems to contain a mixture of different foreign (mostly Asian)
cultures. The Ozamandarins were apparently named after the Chinese
Mandarins, yet Chunum and his tribesmen do seem to be more Middle Eastern.

>Maybe the planet itself is the king, and all the Thunderhorses and Nuthers
>are his children.

That's a clever suggestion, and it would allow for Planetty to be a princess
without having any parents (in Earth terms, anyway).

>Why is Planetty bored? Perhaps she is so excited to see such an abundant
>variety of color in Oz, that it made reflection on a life which may not be
>a whole lot more dull than ours.

Yes, it seems to be an example of someone being unwilling to go back to an
old way of life after experiencing something more exciting, even if this
person was perfectly content before.

Nathan