From: Tigerbooks at aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:23:43 EDT
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-30-99
 
Dave Hulan wrote:
<For all I know the plot line of _Runaway_ is completely Neill's. But I've read
enough Neill (as edited by R&L) to be quite certain in my own mind
that the prose in _Runaway_ is an order of magnitude better done than
Neill showed any evidence of being capable of>
 
Well, I was hired to edit the book to make it "of a magnitude better
done than Neill showed any evidence of being capable of."  So I guess
I succeeded at the job, at least as far as you're concerned. The plot
of the published book is essentially what Neill wrote, though I did a
few nips and tucks (pun intended) in places to make it more unified.
I retained as much of Neill's actual language as I could, although
his prose style is nothing to write home about.  I was far more
concerned with retaining Neill's substance  It was not my intention
to change any of Neill's ideas or characters, but to make the book
more readable.  The one major change I made was to expand Jenny
Jump's part in order to do what I could to restore the character to
Neill's conception of her in his original Wonder City ms from the
lobotomized hash the R&L editors made of her.
 
The Ma of Ozma commented on her comparison of what she believes to be
the original Runaway ms with the published version.  I suspect that
her "original" is the Fred Meyer/Robert Pattrick rewrite that had
very limited distribution (it was later further rewritten by--I
believe--Marcus Mebes and redistributed).  I first read the
Meyer/Pattrick version after I had completed work on Runaway.  My
reaction was mixed.  I thought they solved some of the problems with
the manuscript more cleverly than I had, but I was shocked to find
that they'd cut off the second half of the ms and substituted
something completely of their own devising.  I also couldn't
understand why they'd changed some of the new characters' names and
genders, conflated other characters, and made changes seemingly only
for the point of changing things--such as changing Gillikin to
Quadling at one point.
 
But one of the reasons I wondered what exactly you meant by your
original statement of Runaway being more my book was that, given
that, I wondered who you consider to be responsible for Wonder City.
I did a quick comparison of it once with the WC ms and you have to
get to chapter six or seven (it's been a while since I did the
comparison) before you begin to read words that Neill actually wrote
(concerning Jenny's discovery of the turnstyle--from chapter two, I
think, of the ms), and even after that it's catch as catch can.  The
original ms of Wonder City is no great shakes, and I can see why R&L
thought it needed work, but their editors seem not to have cared one
whit for Neill's intentions (or for Oz as Baum and Thompson had
established it) and the published book is no better than the ms and
arguably a good deal worse.
 
Yes, yes, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  I
was in effect hired to do the same thing to Runaway that R&L did to
Wonder City--and I suppose someone might accuse me of destroying
Runaway as much as they destroyed Wonder City. That's a risk I took
with the job.  But the claim I make for being better than R&L is that
one of my major concerns was to preserve Neill's intentions in
Runaway.  I believe I succeeded, so I don't consider Runaway to be
more my book than Neill's.
 
Eric Shanower

From: Tigerbooks at ...
Date: Fri Jan 9, 2004  5:27 pm
Subject: Re: [Nonestica] Shanower

In a message dated 1/9/2004 12:05:28 PM Pacific Standard
Time, DinnerBell at tmbg.org writes:

Another BCF issue: Should the book after LUCKY BUCKY be RUNAWAY (originally
>drafted to be the next in the series, but not published until many years
>later and then in altered form), or MAGICAL MIMICS (the next "official"
>title)? Or something else entirely?

Dear Nonesticans,

Whether or not people want to consider RUNAWAY for the BCF
at any point, I'd like to make it clear that I have no problems with anyone
posting criticism, positive or negative, on that book (or in fact, on any
project I've been involved with). I don't know whether it would ever be the
case, but if you want to post that something I wrote or drew is
stupid, I won't hold that against you. I want to make this clear so that no
one prevents him- or herself from sharing an opinion with other
Nonesticans for fear of hurting my feelings. If you think my Oz writing
or drawing is trash, it's all right with me if you say so on
Nonestica--this is the proper forum to air your opinions on all things Oz.
(However, if someone posts that I, Eric Shanower, am stupid because
of something I wrote or drew, that's a different matter, and I will
probably take that personally since it would be a personal criticism.) I hope
I've made this all clear.

Best,

Eric Shanower

Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:32:45 -0500
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] Re: Regalia Digest, Vol 11, Issue 10

I finished re-reading Neill's "Runaway in Oz." It's pleasant reading, if
somewhat disorganized. Scraps doesn't really have much motive for running
away, and although it's a touching moment when she realizes that it's time
to carry out her promise to come home again, the effectiveness of the
decision is undercut a bit by the fact that there aren't any consequences
for her to face. Ozma forgives her (and Jellia and the Tin Woodman don't put
in an appearance to need apologizing to), and Scraps decides that she's had
so miuch fun running away that she'll do it again sometime (setting up an
additional book that he didn't get to write, I suppose?), but not without
her new friend Popla the Power Plant, who wants to stick around the Emerald
City, so no more running yet. Seems kind of indecisive for someone as
determined as Scraps -- she could do some more running on her own, looking
forward to seeing Popla when she gets back, or she could enjoy the
friendship (not to mention the older friendships she has in town) as it is
without planning to uproot Popla again.

Fanny the Weather Witch is an interesting character -- sort of a Rosie the
Riveter type, with her wrench and muscles. And the idea of a windmill that
mills grinds out wind instead of being powered by it to mill something else
is ingenious.

And maybe that's enough for openers.

Ruth Berman

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:41:50 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Regalia] General thoughts on RUNAWAY

Ruth:
>I finished re-reading Neill's "Runaway in Oz." It's pleasant reading, if
>somewhat disorganized. Scraps doesn't really have much motive for running
>away, and although it's a touching moment when she realizes that it's time
>to carry out her promise to come home again, the effectiveness of the
>decision is undercut a bit by the fact that there aren't any consequences
>for her to face.

Neill characterizes Scraps as somewhat more childish and annoying than Baum
and Thompson did.  She's always been fairly reckless, but I'm not sure I
could imagine the earlier Oz authors writing her as ruining the palace
carpets the way she does at the beginning of this book, or acting like she
does to her friends.  Maybe her behavior is the result of simple boredom.

I did like Scraps's line, "Just think, if it weren't for me, hundreds would
be out of work" on p. 4.

>Fanny the Weather Witch is an interesting character -- sort of a Rosie the
>Riveter type, with her wrench and muscles. And the idea of a windmill that
>mills grinds out wind instead of being powered by it to mill something else 
>is ingenious.

I like that Fanny uses machinery instead of some kind of weather-summoning
incantations or something.  One thing I enjoy about the Oz series is that
magic-working can encompass technology.  I'm not sure how I feel about Fanny
delivering ALL of the weather in the world.  What about the Rain King, for 
instance?  Perhaps she's expanded her production around the time of
RUNAWAY.

I'd say my favorite part of the book is the time that Scraps and her friends
spend in the sky.  The air castle is a fascinating creation, made out of
"some sort of tough material like hardened rubber" and "molded without a
crack and all held together in a single piece."  The fact that Professor
Wogglebug could dream it into existence, but only for a limited amount of
time, raises questions about the nature of dreams in Oz.  And the
description of the escape from the melting castle makes for some great
reading.  It's kind of odd that the Wogglebug apparently doesn't know it's 
going to melt after a week; Popla has to explain this to him (p. 228).  That
makes me wonder whether, if the Professor's vacation had gone as planned, he
would have had the same kind of trouble escaping the castle as Scraps and
her companions did.

The mechanical star is another clever creation.  I once came up with the
idea that these stars are the product of an ancient advanced civilization
somewhere in the Nonestic world, but this doesn't have any basis in
anything.  I believe Fred Meyer and Robert Pattrick decided the star and its
captain (called Captain Current, rather than Battery Batt, in their version)
were Smith and Tinker creations.  Regardless of who made them, they seem
quite technologically advanced.

I also liked the enchanted orchard, and the revolting quinces.  Sour fruits
that fire smoke bombs is a weird idea, but it works.  They do seem to
continue Neill's trend of making EVERYTHING in Oz sentient, but I prefer to
think of them as a special case.  Jinjur has walking vegetables of her own,
but there's no indication that they have minds of their own, like the
quinces do.
--
I'll still be right where you left me, if you manage to forget me,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:09:54 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Regalia] RUNAWAY geography

As a fan of maps, I kind of wish either Neill or Shanower had drawn one for
RUNAWAY.  It's often difficult to determine where the new settings are
located.

Scraps starts out down a blue Munchkin highway that leads to Jinjur's house.
So far, so good.  She then heads down Lazy Lane, eventually coming to a
road leading to the College of Art and Athletic Perfection, which she says
is "in the southern Munchkin Country, close enough to the way I want to go"
(p. 44).  In Baum's books, the College is actually quite near the Emerald
City, so going there would essentially be backtracking.  Since Scraps
doesn't know which way Lazy Lane actually runs, it's quite possible that
this is what she does, but I think Neill assumed that the College was
located in a more remote area.  In SCALAWAGONS, Ozma suggests that the
College is an out-of-the-way place that it might be difficult for the
Scalawagons to reach.  I believe Thompson also thought of the College as
being somewhat far from the capital, considering how long it takes the
Wogglebug to walk from one to the other in ROYAL BOOK.

Fanny's mountain is "in the southeastern corner of the Munchkin Country." 
If you look at the Haff/Martin map, this corner is occupied by Mudge, which
presumably doesn't contain such a mountain.  The text of COWARDLY LION
actually says that Mudge is in the southWESTERN corner of the Munchkin
Country, but this is around when Thompson's east-west confusion begins, so
it's hard to tell what she actually meant by that.  One possible solution
would be to move Mudge slightly to the west, along the Quadling border.  I 
suppose that could be seen as the "southwestern corner," in a certain 
respect, and it would make room for the mountain.  It's also possible that 
one or both of the "corners" could be an inexact description, and Mudge and
Fanny's mountain are both just NEAR the southeastern corner.

I don't believe there's ever been another mention of a mountain being the
tallest in Oz, so Fanny's presumably holds that distinction.  I believe
Ruggedo leans against the tallest mountain in Ev in KABUMPO, though.

There's no real indication as to where the orchard lands are located, but I
think the context suggests they're somewhere in the southern Munchkin
Country.  I have to wonder who it was who enchanted them when the quinces
went bad.  I would imagine it wasn't one of the usual suspects, although I

suppose the Wizard of Oz, while travelling with Number Nine in "the remotest
corners of Oz," could have come across the orchard lands and decided to help
them out.  It's unlikely, though.

A major location in HIDDEN PRINCE is a glass-manufacturing country in the
southern Munchkin Country.  I have to wonder whether the glass man's home
might be somewhere near there.

On p. 232, Scraps's friends come across a road in the Winkie Country called
Peanut Pike.  This is the same name as the road that the moving forest takes
from the Gillikin Country to the Emerald City in SCALAWAGONS.  Either
there's more than one road with this name, or the pike runs through both
countries.

Pumpkin Park is identified on p. 233 as Jack Pumpkinhead's home.  I believe
the map in SCALAWAGONS showed this park as being in the Gillikin Country,
but RUNAWAY moves it to the Winkie.  I wonder whether this was Shanower's
editing at work (whether his editing was in identifying the park as Jack's
home, or moving it from the Gillikin Country to the Winkie where it
belongs).  I seem to recall the Heeler chapter in WONDER CITY implying that
Jack's home is in the Emerald City itself, but I believe that sequence was
the editor's work, rather than Neill's.  Incidentally, RUNAWAY brings Jack 
back to living in "a huge, hollowed-out pumpkin," rather than the Ozoplane
of WONDER CITY.
--
I'll still be right where you left me, if you manage to forget me,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org

Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:05:34 -0500
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] some runaway details

"Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Neill characterizes Scraps as somewhat more childish and annoying than
> Baum and Thompson did.  She's always been fairly reckless, but I'm not
> sure I could imagine the earlier Oz authors writing her as ruining the
> palace carpets the way she does at the beginning of this book, or acting
> like she does to her friends.  Maybe her behavior is the result of simple
> boredom. >

Yes, it seemed a bit much, but an unusually bad fit of boredom might be the
answer.

> I like that Fanny uses machinery instead of some kind of weather-summoning 
> incantations or something.  One thing I enjoy about the Oz series is that
> magic-working can encompass technology.  I'm not sure how I feel about
> Fanny delivering ALL of the weather in the world.  What about the Rain
> King, for instance?  Perhaps she's expanded her production around the time
> of RUNAWAY. >

Maybe some kind of cooperative arrangement? Fanny's mill produces wind, and
she's described as having valves for snow and hail, but it doesn't actually
say she produces rain. (She mentions being able to get help from
cloud-pushers and sky-sweepers if needed to correct storms or lightning, but
she doesn't actually claim that storms or lightning are her work.)

> I'd say my favorite part of the book is the time that Scraps and her
> friends spend in the sky.  The air castle is a fascinating creation, made
> out of "some sort of tough material like hardened rubber" and "molded
> without a crack and all held together in a single piece."  The fact that
> Professor Wogglebug could dream it into existence, but only for a limited
> amount of time, raises questions about the nature of dreams in Oz.  And
> the description of the escape from the melting castle makes for some great 
> reading.  It's kind of odd that the Wogglebug apparently doesn't know it's
> going to melt after a week <

Perhaps it was an experiment in dream-casting that hadn't been tried before?
I wonder if we could assume that he got help in the building from the
Kingdom of Dreams on the Oz map that never wound up getting used in an Oz
book. (Unless you count the mention in "Ozma" one time of Dorothy as being
asleep and in the kingdom of dreams).

> The mechanical star is another clever creation.  I once came up with the
> idea that these stars are the product of an ancient advanced civilization
> somewhere in the Nonestic world, but this doesn't have any basis in
> anything.  I believe Fred Meyer and Robert Pattrick decided the star and
> its captain (called Captain Current, rather than Battery Batt, in their
> version) were Smith and Tinker creations.  Regardless of who made them,
> they seem quite technologically advanced. >

Perhas Anuther Planet and such like skyey locales might be larger versions
of such "stars" and that would explain the geography that puts so many
"stars" as close as satellites (apparently) to Oz's planet?

> As a fan of maps, I kind of wish either Neill or Shanower had drawn one
> for RUNAWAY.  It's often difficult to determine where the new settings are
> located. Scraps starts out down a blue Munchkin highway that leads to
> Jinjur's house.   So far, so good.  She then heads down Lazy Lane,
> eventually coming to a road leading to the College of Art and Athletic
> Perfection, which she says is "in the southern Munchkin Country, close
> enough to the way I want to go" (p. 44).  In Baum's books, the College is
> actually quite near the Emerald City, so going there would essentially be
> backtracking.  Since Scraps
doesn't know which way Lazy Lane actually runs, it's quite possible that
this is what she does, but I think Neill assumed that the College was
located in a more remote area.  In SCALAWAGONS, Ozma suggests that the
College is an out-of-the-way place that it might be difficult for the
Scalawagons to reach.  I believe Thompson also thought of the College as
being somewhat far from the capital, considering how long it takes the
Wogglebug to walk from one to the other in ROYAL BOOK. <

These differences might just reflect different ideas of how far is "far"?

> Fanny's mountain is "in the southeastern corner of the Munchkin Country."
> If you look at the Haff/Martin map, this corner is occupied by Mudge,
> which presumably doesn't contain such a mountain.  ... It's also possible
> that one or both of the "corners" could be an inexact description, and
> Mudge and Fanny's mountain are both just NEAR the southeastern corner.
<

It wouldn't be all that inexact in ordinary description -- near the angle,
even though not directly at the vertex, would count as "in the corner," 
don't you think?

> I have to wonder who it was who enchanted them when the quinces went bad.
> I would imagine it wasn't one of the usual suspects, although I suppose
> the Wizard of Oz, while travelling with Number Nine in "the remotest
> corners of Oz," could have come across the orchard lands and decided to
> help them out.  It's unlikely, though.<

Maybe the Mermerizer was traveling outside the Quadling lands? -- sort of
sounds like his level of competence?

> A major location in HIDDEN PRINCE is a glass-manufacturing country in the
> southern Munchkin Country.  I have to wonder whether the glass man's home
> might be somewhere near there. <

Nice thought.

> On p. 232, Scraps's friends come across a road in the Winkie Country
> called Peanut Pike.  This is the same name as the road that the moving
> forest takes from the Gillikin Country to the Emerald City in SCALAWAGONS.  
> Either there's more than one road with this name, or the pike runs through 
> both countries. <

It could meander some -- or might be two branches of a roadway?

Ruth Berman

Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:59:09 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Regalia] some runaway details

Ruth:
>Fanny's mill produces wind, and she's described as having valves for snow
>and hail, but it doesn't actually say she produces rain. (She mentions
>being able to get help from cloud-pushers and sky-sweepers if needed to
>correct storms or lightning, but she doesn't actually claim that storms or
>lightning are her work.)

She also uses lightning to attack Battery Batt's star, so she presumably has
some kind of access to it.

>>The mechanical star is another clever creation.  I once came up with the
>>idea that these stars are the product of an ancient advanced civilization
>>somewhere in the Nonestic world, but this doesn't have any basis in
>>anything.  I believe Fred Meyer and Robert Pattrick decided the star and
>>its captain (called Captain Current, rather than Battery Batt, in their 
>>version) were Smith and Tinker creations.  Regardless of who made them,
>>they seem quite technologically advanced. >
>
>Perhas Anuther Planet and such like skyey locales might be larger versions
>of such "stars" and that would explain the geography that puts so many
>"stars" as close as satellites (apparently) to Oz's planet?

Perhaps, although I don't think all of these "stars" necessarily have the
controls or electric lights that Captain Batt's does.

>>As a fan of maps, I kind of wish either Neill or Shanower had drawn one 
>>for RUNAWAY.  It's often difficult to determine where the new settings are
>>located. Scraps starts out down a blue Munchkin highway that leads to
>>Jinjur's house.   So far, so good.  She then heads down Lazy Lane,
>>eventually coming to a road leading to the College of Art and Athletic
>>Perfection, which she says is "in the southern Munchkin Country, close
>>enough to the way I want to go" (p. 44).  In Baum's books, the College is
>>actually quite near the Emerald City, so going there would essentially be
>>backtracking.  Since Scraps
>doesn't know which way Lazy Lane actually runs, it's quite possible that
>this is what she does, but I think Neill assumed that the College was
>located in a more remote area.  In SCALAWAGONS, Ozma suggests that the 
>College is an out-of-the-way place that it might be difficult for the
>Scalawagons to reach.  I believe Thompson also thought of the College as
>being somewhat far from the capital, considering how long it takes the
>Wogglebug to walk from one to the other in ROYAL BOOK. <
>
>These differences might just reflect different ideas of how far is "far"?

Perhaps, but EMERALD CITY certainly didn't present the college as being in a
location that would have been at all difficult to reach from the Emerald
City on foot, let alone in a Scalawagon.

>>Fanny's mountain is "in the southeastern corner of the Munchkin Country."
>>If you look at the Haff/Martin map, this corner is occupied by Mudge,
>>which presumably doesn't contain such a mountain.  ... It's also possible
>>that one or both of the "corners" could be an inexact description, and
>>Mudge and Fanny's mountain are both just NEAR the southeastern corner.
<
>
>It wouldn't be all that inexact in ordinary description -- near the angle,
>even though not directly at the vertex, would count as "in the corner,"
>don't you think?

Yes, I suppose it would.

>>On p. 232, Scraps's friends come across a road in the Winkie Country
>>called Peanut Pike.  This is the same name as the road that the moving
>>forest takes from the Gillikin Country to the Emerald City in SCALAWAGONS.
>>Either there's more than one road with this name, or the pike runs through
>>both
>countries. <
>
>It could meander some -- or might be two branches of a roadway?

I'd say those are both distinct possibilities.  Most of the roads of Oz,
aside from the yellow brick ones, have never really been mapped out.
--
I'll still be right where you left me, if you manage to forget me,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org

Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:49:53 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Regalia] RUNAWAY characters

I've already mentioned how Scraps's immaturity level is a bit exaggerated in
this book, probably due to boredom.  The story also introduces an
interesting new character trait for Scraps: she hates to listen to other
people's rhymes.  While a quite clever idea on Neill's part, she's met up
with other rhymers (notably Snif and Pigasus) without any obvious signs of
annoyance.  On the other hand, she WAS just meeting these characters, so
perhaps she was just being polite.

We learn on p. 125 that Scraps has no sense of smell.  I suppose this makes
sense, considering that we know she has no sense of taste, but I think this
book is the first time it's actually established.  It does kind of make me 
wonder why button eyes are fine for seeing and gold ears for hearing, but a
cloth nose can't smell anything.

Popla is an interesting new character.  Her name is apparently short for
"power plant," but I also have to wonder if Neill might have been thinking
of the word "poplar" when naming her.  She and Scraps get along quite well
(when they're not rhyming, anyway), and there even seem to be a few hints
that her feelings for the Power Plant go beyond mere friendship.  On p.  240,
the Patchwork Girl tells Popla, "You're the most beautiful girl in Oz and
the most wonderful travelling companion.  We make a great team."  I also
noticed that it's Popla who steers Battery Batt's star out of Fanny's reach.
  Perhaps she has some mechanical knowledge, but that isn't really
developed.

Speaking of characters with mechanical knowledge, p. 8 identifies Jack
Pumpkinhead as the designer of Scraps's Spoolicle.  Incidentally, I think
the vehicle itself is based on a drawing Neill did for the dedication page
of GNOME KING.  I like the idea that Scraps has her own unique mode of
transportation.  Getting back to Jack, though, Neill actually seems to give
him some skills that he never demonstrated in the Baum and Thompson books. 
He was building a pipe organ in WONDER CITY, for instance.  Then again, I
believe EMERALD CITY credited him with designing the Scarecrow's tower, so
maybe Jack has always had skills in this respect, and they're just generally
downplayed by the authors.  Speaking of Jack, he cries a seed tear on p.
228.  We've never received any previous indication that he could cry, and
since his seeds apparently function as his brains (according to both Baum
and Thompson), it's a bit odd.

The Twinkler's character isn't developed all that much, but I still like
him.  He mentions on p. 133 that he's forgotten both his name and "any
former life I may have had."  Some exploration of the Twinkler's past might
make for an interesting story, although it would presumably be
unpublishable.  I like how the man's cooking skills are established in the 
air castle, making his decision to remain in the orchard lands and open a
cafe work well.

I've always liked Jenny Jump, so I'm glad Eric Shanower expanded her role in
this book.  A reference on p. 109 makes it clear that the Wizard has
returned Jenny's temper, essentially reversing one of the most objectionable
editorial additions to WONDER CITY.  Shanower does an excellent job at
drawing Jenny, giving her a different outfit and hairstyle practically every
time we see her.  Her suitcase, a magical accessory that doesn't have all
the bugs worked out, makes for some amusing moments.  Is this the only time
we see a diaper mentioned in an Oz book?  The suitcase also contains an
electric hair dryer, probably the first one in the Oz series.

The dragonette that Scraps encounters toward the beginning of the book is
presumably not Evangeline, since she's mentioned as having a "long, flexible
throat" on p. 11.  Evangeline would, of course, have TWO throats.

I have to wonder who the visiting monarchs are.  Jellia Jamb refers to them
as "the ten most important monarchs of the Gillikin Country," which would
presumably include Joe King, and probably Randy and King Pompus as well. 
Other Gillikin rulers I can think of offhand are King Bal Loon, the Great
Dragon from TIN WOODMAN, King Gugu, the Three Adepts, Aurex, the Ruler of
Rith Metic, King Cheer of the Illumi Nation, the King of the Soup Sea, Kinda
Jolly, Rollo the Worst, the Queen of Catty Corners, Vanetta (Vanette?) of
Blankenburg, Queen Torpedora, King Kumup, Delva, Nandywog, Ozwoz (sort of),
Tip-Topper, Nifflepok, Sleeperoo, and Rupert (who hadn't been introduced at
the time Neill wrote his original manuscript, and would presumably have been
unknown to Ozma at this point).  I couldn't imagine many of those rulers
either being considered important or coming to the Emerald City for a
celebration, though.
--
I'll still be right where you left me, if you manage to forget me,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org

Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:53:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Gardner <hermiemunster at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Regalia] RUNAWAY Fanny

--- Nathan wrote:

> Ruth:
> >Fanny's mill produces wind, and she's described as
> having valves for snow
> >and hail, but it doesn't actually say she produces
> rain. (She mentions
> >being able to get help from cloud-pushers and
> sky-sweepers if needed to
> >correct storms or lightning, but she doesn't
> actually claim that storms or
> >lightning are her work.)
>
> She also uses lightning to attack Battery Batt's
> star, so she presumably has
> some kind of access to it.

For me, the extent of Fanny's powers bothered me. That
there is one person who controls the weather of the
world and that she just happens to be in Oz, but no
one's ever mentioned her before, seems strange. Maybe
if she just controlled the weather in Oz, but
including the world seems to be a bit too much
Oz-Great Outside World crossover for me.

Joe G.

Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:09:00 -0400
From: "Joseph Bongiorno" <thesithempire at msn.com>
Subject: [Regalia] Re: Jenny Jump

Nathan wrote:

<<I've always liked Jenny Jump, so I'm glad Eric Shanower expanded her role in
this book.  A reference on p. 109 makes it clear that the Wizard has
returned Jenny's temper, essentially reversing one of the most objectionable
editorial additions to WONDER CITY. >>

True, although it'll become a bit of a minor continuity issue if the
original WONDER CITY is ever published (in which the Wizard never
removes her temper) and supercedes the former edition.

Joe B.

Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:14:05 -0500
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at UMN.EDU>
Subject: [Regalia] Runaway details

"Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've already mentioned how Scraps's immaturity level is a bit exaggerated
> in this book, probably due to boredom.  The story also introduces an
> interesting new character trait for Scraps: she hates to listen to other
> people's rhymes.  While a quite clever idea on Neill's part, she's met up
> with other rhymers (notably Snif and Pigasus) without any obvious signs of 
> annoyance.  On the other hand, she WAS just meeting these characters, so
> perhaps she was just being polite. >

Or maybe when she isn't feeling quite so bored she's able to take more
interest in other people's rhymes? Or maybe it's a "polite" (although still
pretty rude) way of indicating that she thinks these folks' rhymes are
dreadful (and perhaps their feelings are the same in reverse)?

> We learn on p. 125 that Scraps has no sense of smell.  I suppose this 
> makes sense, considering that we know she has no sense of taste, but I
> think this book is the first time it's actually established.  It does kind
> of make me wonder why button eyes are fine for seeing and gold ears for
> hearing, but a cloth nose can't smell anything.>

Maybe magic has problems similar to those of our sciences when it comes to
devising sensors to register tastes and smells. Cameras and recorders do
just fine at registering sights and sounds, but I don't think we have any
sensors yet that can manage tastes and smells? "Touch" is actually a group
of senses, and I'm not sure how registerable they are. Scraps and the
Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman and the like cannot feel pain, but I suspect
they can all feel pressure? I'm not sure how they are on feeling hot/cold,
and I think there are some other aspects of "touch" that I'm forgetting.
(Come to think of it, I wonder if they have anything equivalent to the inner
ear for registering a sense of balance, or if they have to rely on vision
for that -- although Scraps doesn't seem to have any problem balancing when
she's blindfolded for going through the illusionary wall in -- is it
"Patchwork Girl" or "Lost Princess"?)

>  Perhaps she [Popla] has some mechanical knowledge, but that isn't really
> developed. >

Seems reasonable that a power plant would have some gifts for mechanics and
the like?

> Speaking of characters with mechanical knowledge, p. 8 identifies Jack
> Pumpkinhead as the designer of Scraps's Spoolicle.  Incidentally, I think
> the vehicle itself is based on a drawing Neill did for the dedication page 
> of GNOME KING. <

Seems likely.

> Getting back to Jack, though, Neill actually seems to give him some skills 
> that he never demonstrated in the Baum and Thompson books.  He was
> building a pipe organ in WONDER CITY, for instance.  Then again, I believe
> EMERALD CITY credited him with designing the Scarecrow's tower, so maybe
> Jack has always had skills in this respect, and they're just generally
> downplayed by the authors. <

Baum does say that Jack's heads vary in their degrees of intelligence, and
that might be a factor.

> Speaking of Jack, he cries a seed tear on p. 228.  We've never received
> any previous indication that he could cry, and since his seeds apparently
> function as his brains (according to both Baum and Thompson), it's a bit
> odd. >

Yes.

> The dragonette that Scraps encounters toward the beginning of the book is
> presumably not Evangeline, since she's mentioned as having a "long,
> flexible throat" on p. 11.  Evangeline would, of course, have TWO throats.
>  >

The illo, though, looks as if Eric was thinking of it as being Evangeline.
The "long, flexible throat" that makes a clucking disgusted noise at Scraps
might perhaps be thought of as the one that the Dragonette had just been
speaking out of, without necessarily meaning definitely that the Dragonette
has only one? (Then again, the narrative refers to the Dragonette as "it,"
whereas Evangeline, I think, was always "she" -- but that might be narrative
reflection of inattention on Scraps' part, rather than a definite assertion
that the Dragonette's gender is unknown. In Evangeline's case, of course,
the "ette" ending signaled her femininity -- although Baum in
"Dorothy/Wizard" had used it as a diminutive ending without an implied
gender for the dragon-children.)

> I have to wonder who the visiting monarchs are.  Jellia Jamb refers to
> them as "the ten most important monarchs of the Gillikin Country," <

It does seem more of a rank-oriented approach than we really expect of Oz?
She could at least have made it "ten of the" instead of "the ten"? We don't
seem to get any indication of why there's a group visit being made. They
might be having arguments that Ozma plans to get settled, and making their
visit a holiday is one way to get them in a good mood conducive to
negotiations? Or it might be a rotational celebration, calling in batches of
monarchs for a sort of meet-the-neighbors party (intended to fend off the
kinds of Hopper/Horner misunderstandings that lead to a need for
negotiations)? The McGraws in "Rundelstone" have Ozma taking it in turns to
call in aristocrats for tea, and that might be a similar sort of rotary
arrangement>

Joe Gardner <hermiemunster at yahoo.com> wrote:
> For me, the extent of Fanny's powers bothered me. That there is one person 
> who controls the weather of the world and that she just happens to be in
> Oz, but no one's ever mentioned her before, seems strange. Maybe if she
> just controlled the weather in Oz, but including the world seems to be a
> bit too much Oz-Great Outside World crossover for me. >

It does seem odd. You'd think if she has that much Outside World
responsibility she'd be over in Tititihoochoo's realm, or hanging out with
the immortals who gather in Burzee, or out in the Nonestic somewhere, maybe.
Maybe we could assume that she doesn't really do weather for all the Outside
World all the time, but is one of several weather-workers scattered in
different locations, helping each other out as needed?

Ruth Berman

Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:06:53 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Regalia] Runaway details

Ruth:
>>We learn on p. 125 that Scraps has no sense of smell.  I suppose this
>>makes sense, considering that we know she has no sense of taste, but I
>>think this book is the first time it's actually established.  It does kind
>>of make me wonder why button eyes are fine for seeing and gold ears for 
>>hearing, but a cloth nose can't smell anything.>
>
>Maybe magic has problems similar to those of our sciences when it comes to
>devising sensors to register tastes and smells. Cameras and recorders do
>just fine at registering sights and sounds, but I don't think we have any
>sensors yet that can manage tastes and smells? "Touch" is actually a group
>of senses, and I'm not sure how registerable they are. Scraps and the
>Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman and the like cannot feel pain, but I suspect
>they can all feel pressure? I'm not sure how they are on feeling hot/cold,
>and I think there are some other aspects of "touch" that I'm forgetting.
>(Come to think of it, I wonder if they have anything equivalent to the
>inner ear for registering a sense of balance, or if they have to rely on
>vision for that -- although Scraps doesn't seem to have any problem
>balancing when she's blindfolded for going through the illusionary wall in
>-- is it "Patchwork Girl" or "Lost Princess"?)

The Scarecrow has trouble balancing, but that's generally attributed to his
clumsy composition, rather than his lack of an inner ear.

Magically animated beings seem to have a very limited sense of touch.  Two 
examples I like to give when discussions of this topic come up are: 1) in
GNOME KING, when the invisible Ruggedo pinches the Scarecrow, the straw man
knows he's been pinched, but feels no pain; and 2) Davy Jones, in LUCKY
BUCKY, is described as having very weak nerves in his wooden boards, so
Tickley Bender's tickling doesn't affect him.  I'm pretty sure there are
some instances when these beings are described as having no sense of touch
at all, but I think that's an exaggeration.

As for heat and cold, there's an indication in OZOPLANING that the Tin
Woodman can't tell how cold it is in the upper stratosphere, because he's
made of tin.
--
I'll still be right where you left me, if you manage to forget me,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org

Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:36:04 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Regalia] RUNAWAY miscellaneous comments

On p. 101, Professor Wogglebug mentions that his vacation in the dream
castle would have been his first in "nearly two score years." Since RUNAWAY
was written in the forties, this presumably means his last vacation wasn't
that long after the founding of his college.

Alexample observes on p. 157 that the air castle's library "makes any pill 
obsolete."  This is pretty much the exact opposite sentiment from that
expressed by the Professor himself in Chapter 9 of EMERALD CITY: "It is
easier to swallow knowledge than to acquire it laboriously from books. Is it
not so, my friends?"

This book contains one of at least three puns on the word "bandbox" to
appear in the Oz series.  In SILVER PRINCESS, the characters pick a
tune-playing bandbox from a tree in the Box Wood.  YANKEE gives Jinnicky a 
bandbox that contains a miniature band.  The bandbox in RUNAWAY is more
similar to the former, but it's alive and sentient.

Incidentally, I gather that "The Campbells Are Coming" is an old song, but I
don't believe I've ever heard it.  Does anyone here know anything about it?

On p. 190, Alexample warns, "Any finidlling with Fanny is out." While the
context gives a good idea as to what he means by "finidlling," it's still
one of the oddest words to appear in an Oz book.  How is it pronounced, and
what's the present-tense form?  "Finidlle"?

It makes sense that Scraps remembers that a sheet is "traditional garb for a
prisoner in the Land of Oz" (p. 234), because she was around when Ojo was
arrested in PATCHWORK GIRL.  Oddly enough, though, the Soldier with Green
Whiskers (the one who actually arrested Ojo) thinks she's a ghost, rather
than a prisoner.

Nathan

Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:28:06 -0500
From: David Hulan <dhulan at wideopenwest.com>
Subject: [Regalia] Illusionary walls and pressure senses

> (Come to think of it, I wonder if they have anything equivalent to the
> inner
> ear for registering a sense of balance, or if they have to rely on
> vision
> for that -- although Scraps doesn't seem to have any problem balancing
> when
> she's blindfolded for going through the illusionary wall in -- is it
> "Patchwork Girl" or "Lost Princess"?)

Scraps goes through illusionary walls in both books, which is why you
probably can't remember which, but it was in PATCHWORK GIRL that she
was blindfolded. In LOST PRINCESS she walked through the walls of Thi
with eyes uncovered.

Interesting discussion of senses; the non-meat characters do seem to
have a useful sense of pressure, because they have no difficulty in,
e.g., handling relatively delicate objects like glasses or china
ornaments, which requires a fairly sensitive pressure feedback to be
able to apply enough pressure to support them without crushing them.

David Hulan

Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:34:33 -0500
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] runaway details

"Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com> wrote:
> On p. 101, Professor Wogglebug mentions that his vacation in the dream
> castle would have been his first in "nearly two score years."  Since
> RUNAWAY was written in the forties, this presumably means his last
> vacation wasn't that long after the founding of his college. >

Perhaps it means he was thinking of the time before he started the college
as a time when he was on vacation?

> Alexample observes on p. 157 that the air castle's library "makes any pill
> obsolete."  This is pretty much the exact opposite sentiment from that
> expressed by the Professor himself in Chapter 9 of EMERALD CITY: "It is
> easier to swallow knowledge than to acquire it laboriously from books. Is
> it not so, my friends?" >

The Wogglebug, in spite of his thorough education, doesn't really seem to
expect anyone to enjoy getting educated. I suppose we might ask if the
Wogglebug even enjoys it himself -- although he did seem to be enjoying
doing basic research (in however snobbish a way) to study Ozians' pasts in
"Royal Book." Alexemple is a book-lover and really enjoys reading, so

digesting facts in a more literal way isn't as much fun for him. Baum was
thinking of the College as a place to dump twerps who aren't good for any
real work, but both RPT and Neill seem to have thought of the College as
maybe genuinely a place where people want to find things out. Another change
Neill made was in making the College co-educational.

> This book contains one of at least three puns on the word "bandbox" to
> appear in the Oz series.  In SILVER PRINCESS, the characters pick a
> tune-playing bandbox from a tree in the Box Wood.  YANKEE gives Jinnicky a
> bandbox that contains a miniature band.  The bandbox in RUNAWAY is more
> similar to the former, but it's alive and sentient.>

And Baum has a band found inside the Monarch's Ruby Casket in "Magical
Monarch of Mo" -- although he doesn't make the pun.

> Incidentally, I gather that "The Campbells Are Coming" is an old song, but
> I don't believe I've ever heard it.  Does anyone here know anything about
> it? >

I tried a websearch and found a website of the Clan Campbell Society of
North America --

-- says it's "A
traditional pipe tune which may be centuries old and to which the Clan
marched to many a battle. It was later the March Past of the 1st Battalion
The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (formerly the 91st Highlanders) and has 
also formed the theme of songs. The best known song is "The Campbells are
Coming" and the tune is now called by no other name." Sounds as if no one
knows what particular event gave rise to the song or what particular Duke of
Argyle led the Campbell Clan just when. It gives the words as:

Chorus:
The Campbells are coming Ho-Ro, Ho-Ro!
The Campbells are coming Ho-Ro, Ho-Ro!
The Campbells are coming to bonnie LochLeven
The Campbells are coming Ho-Ro, Ho-Ro!

Verses:
  Upon the Lomonds I lay, I lay,
  Upon the Lomonds I lay, I lay,
  I lookit down to bonnie Lochleven
  And saw three perches play-hay-hay!

  The Great Argyll he goes before,
  He makes the cannons and guns to roar,
  With sound o'trumpet, pipe and drum,
  The Campbells are coming, Ho-Ro, Ho-Ro!

  The Campbells they are a' in arms,
  Their loyal faith and truth to show,
  With banners rattling in the wind,
  The Campbells are coming Ho-Ro, Ho-Ro!

(Anyone want to come up with an explanation of how the Wogglebug and the
bandbox happen to know this old Scottish folksong>)

> On p. 190, Alexample warns, "Any finidlling with Fanny is out."  While the
> context gives a good idea as to what he means by "finidlling," it's still
> one of the oddest words to appear in an Oz book.  How is it pronounced,
> and what's the present-tense form?  "Finidlle"? >

Not in the "Webster's Collegiate." I'll try to remember to check a larger
dictionary, but I wonder if it was Neill inventing a word that sounded
similar to but funnier than, maybe, "fiddling around."

Ruth Berman

Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:13:04 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Regalia] runaway details

Ruth:
>Baum was thinking of the College as a place to dump twerps who aren't good
>for any real work, but both RPT and Neill seem to have thought of the
>College as maybe genuinely a place where people want to find things out.

Alexample says that it's the only place in Oz to get a higher education.  Is
this stated in any of the other books?  I know Halidom has a university, but
I believe it's dedicated entirely to heraldry, and MERRY GO ROUND was
written after RUNAWAY anyway.

>Another change Neill made was in making the College co-educational.

Perhaps he was reflecting changing times in Outside World colleges?

>(Anyone want to come up with an explanation of how the Wogglebug and the
>bandbox happen to know this old Scottish folksong>)

I would imagine that the Wogglebug would know a lot of songs from around the
world.  As for how the bandbox knows it, maybe the farmer who owned it was

somehow of Scottish ancestry.  I don't know.
--
I'll still be right where you left me, if you manage to forget me,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:07:10 -0500
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] u-oz

David Hulan <dhulan at wideopenwest.com> wrote:
> the non-meat characters do seem to have a useful sense of pressure,
> because they have no difficulty in, e.g., handling relatively delicate
> objects like glasses or china ornaments, which requires a fairly sensitive 
> pressure feedback to be able to apply enough pressure to support them
> without crushing them. >

Interesting point.

"Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Alexample says that it's the only place in Oz to get a higher education.
> Is this stated in any of the other books?  I know Halidom has a
> university, but I believe it's dedicated entirely to heraldry, and MERRY
> GO ROUND was written after RUNAWAY anyway. >

The usual rule that's been noted is that anytime an Oz Historian says
something is the "only" it turns out not to be so -- but in this case maybe
it's correct.

>>Another change Neill made was in making the College co-educational.
> Perhaps he was reflecting changing times in Outside World colleges? >

Maybe more reflecting past changes. There were already a lot of co-ed
colleges as of 1900, and the colleges that were then single-sex were
probably all still so in the 1940s. But when Baum was a child the proportion
of single-sex colleges compared to co-ed colleges must have been a lot
higher, and college education for women at all, whether at single-sex
colleges or co-ed was rare. I think the "land-grant" universities for each
state were founded as co-ed, and most of them were founded around the middle
of the 19th century, so that in Baum's youth they were still pretty new and
much less well known than the old "ivy league" colleges of the East.
(U-Illinois 1867, U-South Dakota 1862, U-Kansas 1863, for example -- 
checking the handy list of US colleges in the dictionary.) Also, of course,
university education for either men or women was uncommon during Baum's
lifetime. Neither Baum nor Neill went to college. But in the 1940s
college-going was becoming more common, so maybe Neill was reflecting that
contemporary change in presenting the students there as more ordinary-types
of people. But the change to co-ed, I think, reflects an older change.

Ruth Berman

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:40:28 -0500
From: David Hulan <dhulan at wideopenwest.com>
Subject: [Regalia] Campbells are Coming

> (Anyone want to come up with an explanation of how the Wogglebug and
> the
> bandbox happen to know this old Scottish folksong>)
>
Don't think it's any more difficult to explain than how Victor Columbia
Edison had a rag-time record on hand in PATCHWORK GIRL. "The Campbells
Are Coming" was a well-known song to me when I was in elementary
school, although the lyrics were somewhat different from the ones you
found on that site. The version I knew the chorus went:

The Campbells are coming, Oh-ho, oh-ho,
The Campbells are coming with fife and drum,
The Campbells are coming from bonnie Loch Leven,
The Campbells are fighting to overcome.

I know the tune, too, but that's hard to convey on-line... :-) It's a
nice pentatonic melody that I suspect a lot of you might recognize if
you heard it.

David Hulan

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:48:25 -0600
From: Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan at pauahtun.org>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] Campbells are Coming

Hi All--

David Hulan wrote:
>
> I know the tune, too, but that's hard to convey on-line... :-) It's a
> nice pentatonic melody that I suspect a lot of you might recognize if
> you heard it.
>

Google is your friend:

Not only can you see the score, you can hear the midi.  Beware, though;
it's rather scratchy, and if your volume's turned up too loud you can
scare the cat pretty easily.  It's scratchy because it was prepared by a
piper;-)

Metta,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works

Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:37:20 -0500
From: "J. L. Bell" <jnolbell at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Regalia] Re: RUNAWAY details

Ruth Berman wrote:
> Another change
> Neill made was in making the College co-educational.

Or perhaps Eric Shanower made this change. I don't have a sure sense of
how much leeway he felt he had. If Neill never described the student
body in detail, for instance, Eric might have filled out those
characters with some females as well as males.

> (Anyone want to come up with an explanation of how the Wogglebug and the
> bandbox happen to know this old Scottish folksong>)

Well, we already know that the Wogglebug is mad about a certain type of
plaid.

J. L. Bell                 
JnoLBell at earthlink.net

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:20:26 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Regalia] Re: RUNAWAY details

J. L. Bell:
>Ruth Berman wrote:
>>Another change Neill made was in making the College co-educational.
>
>Or perhaps Eric Shanower made this change. I don't have a sure sense of how 
>much leeway he felt he had. If Neill never described the student body in
>detail, for instance, Eric might have filled out those characters with some
>females as well as males.

Wasn't there a female student named Alma Mater in WONDER CITY?
--
I'll still be right where you left me, if you manage to forget me,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org

Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:20:42 -0500
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] continuities

David Hulan <dhulan at wideopenwest.com> wrote:
> Don't think it [Wogglebug's & bandbox's knowledge of "The Campbells are
> Coming"] 's any more difficult to explain than how Victor Columbia Edison
> had a rag-time record on hand in PATCHWORK GIRL. "The Campbells Are
> Coming" was a well-known song to me when I was in elementary school <
and "J. L. Bell" <jnolbell at earthlink.net> added:
> Well, we already know that the Wogglebug is mad about a certain type of
> plaid. <

Nice suggestions. I suppose with magic in the mix we could assume that
Ozians have the ability to follow what's going on in other countries (with
access to more details than, say, Glinda's Great Book provides), and have
also enough general interest in things like songs and maybe poems
(remembering "The Boy Stood on the Burning Deck" in the Wogglebug's
elocution pills) to follow those at least. Lessee, the books on the Book
Tree in Oogaboo ("Tik-Tok") and in Gureeda's library ("Speedy") and in
Neill's Public Library of Oz might offer something along those lines. There
are probably other possibilities, too. I recall that in connection with "The
Boy Stood..." JLB once suggested that the Wizard might have programmed the 
elocution pills with all the elocution a 19th century Omaha school education
would have taught, and the influence of the Wizard (and other resident or
visiting mortals) might be another "vector" in spreading music, too.

also J.L. Bell:
> Or perhaps Eric Shanower made this change [co-ed Royal College students].
> I don't have a sure sense of how much leeway he felt he had. If Neill
> never described the student body in detail, for instance, Eric might have
> filled out those characters with some females as well as males. >
and "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com> added:
> Wasn't there a female student named Alma Mater in WONDER CITY? >

Yes, there was.

Ruth Berman

Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:05:23 -0500
From: "J. L. Bell" <jnolbell at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Regalia] Re: wondering about WONDER CITY, again

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
>Wasn't there a female student named Alma Mater in WONDER CITY?

Did she appear in the section on the Ozlection? I seem to recall the
Wogglebug having the most to do with that part of the book, though he
shows up at the celebratory dinner as well.

If Alma Mater comes in only during the Ozlection scenes, she was
probably created by the book editor, who I recall was female and perhaps
a female college graduate.

J. L. Bell                 
JnoLBell at earthlink.net

Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:00:03 -0400
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Regalia] Alma Mater and Outside World knowledge

Ruth:
>I suppose with magic in the mix we could assume that Ozians have the
>ability to follow what's going on in other countries (with access to more
>details than, say, Glinda's Great Book provides), and have also enough
>general interest in things like songs and maybe poems (remembering "The Boy
>Stood on the Burning Deck" in the Wogglebug's elocution pills) to follow
>those at least. Lessee, the books on the Book Tree in Oogaboo ("Tik-Tok")
>and in Gureeda's library ("Speedy") and in Neill's Public Library of Oz
>might offer something along those lines.

For what it's worth, the Dictator of Dicksy Land is introduced as reading a
book by Dickens.

J. L. Bell:
>Nathan DeHoff wrote:
>>Wasn't there a female student named Alma Mater in WONDER CITY?
>
>Did she appear in the section on the Ozlection? I seem to recall the
>Wogglebug having the most to do with that part of the book, though he shows

>up at the celebratory dinner as well.

I believe she appears when Jack Pumpkinhead comes to the College to summon
the Wogglebug to a meeting in the Emerald City.  Since this meeting pertains
to the Ozlection, it's quite possible that the editor inserted the
character, although I guess it's possible that scene could have taken place
in a slightly different manner in Neill's original manuscript, with Alma
already there.
--
I'll still be right where you left me, if you manage to forget me,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org

Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:11:34 -0500
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] alma mater

"J. L. Bell" <jnolbell at earthlink.net> wrote:
> If Alma Mater comes in only during the Ozlection scenes, she was probably
> created by the book editor, who I recall was female and perhaps a female
> college graduate. >
and "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com> commented:
> I believe she appears when Jack Pumpkinhead comes to the College to summon

> the Wogglebug to a meeting in the Emerald City.  Since this meeting
> pertains to the Ozlection, it's quite possible that the editor inserted
> the character, although I guess it's possible that scene could have taken
> place in a slightly different manner in Neill's original manuscript, with
> Alma already there. <

Interesting question. I think David Maxine and Eric Shanower have read the
ms., and maybe one of them will be commenting on this point. I've also sent
off an e-note to Stephen Teller, to ask if he remembers if Alma is in the
ms. or was an addition from R&L. I'd make a guess that Neill's interest in
Latin and Greek (mis-remembering "Nonestic" as the more Latinate "Nonentic,"
naming Jenny's leprechaun Psycho Pompus -- or Siko Pompus as it wound up
getting spelled in "Wonder City") makes it likely that joke of naming a girl
Alma Mater was likely to his. Only a likely, though.

Ruth Berman

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:58:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Wise <alanmacwise at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] u-oz
 
Ruth Berman <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote: Maybe more reflecting past changes.
There were already a lot of co-ed
colleges as of 1900, and the colleges that were then single-sex were
probably all still so in the 1940s.

William and Mary, my alma mater, was the first college in Virginia to go co-ed,
and that happened in the late teens, just before women got the vote.  The
rest of the schools in the state followed either rapidly or as slowly as
possible.  (Virginia Military Institute didn't go co-ed until the last
decades of the 20th Century.)  I think, as Ruth pointed out, that the idea
of co-ed colleges probably was more prevalent in popular culture at the time of
Neill's writing.  Plus, I wonder if Baum in satirizing the importance of
athletics over education was taking on a more male target.  In his mind, I
imagine that women's colleges were more engaged in learning because they had to
fight for the right to attend, whereas male colleges already had a reputation
for caring more about the extracurricular activities than about books. 

Alan Wise

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:16:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Wise <alanmacwise at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] Campbells are Coming

David Hulan <dhulan at wideopenwest.com> wrote: The Campbells are coming,
Oh-ho, oh-ho,
The Campbells are coming with fife and drum,
The Campbells are coming from bonnie Loch Leven,
The Campbells are fighting to overcome.

I know the tune, too, but that's hard to convey on-line... :-) It's a
nice pentatonic melody that I suspect a lot of you might recognize if
you heard it.


If memory serves, I think there's a Bugs Bunny cartoon that uses the tune
(perhaps more than one), so it must have been a widely known melody.  And
still is to some extent if I can rmember it from all my old Saturday morning TV
viewing. 

Alan Wise

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:28:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Cope <residualecho at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] Campbells are Coming

The rabbits are coming
Hurray hurray
The rabbits are coming
Hurray hurray

Look at me! I'm multiplyin'!

(Elmer tries to rip up his Warner Bros. contract and leave the studio; Bugs invades
his nightmare after giving him sleeping pills-- "Take dese, and doze!" in the last
cartoon Bob Clampett directed before leaving the studio: _The Big Snooze_.

It's every bit as much of an earworm as "I'm the Easter RABbit, hurRAY..."

Alan Wise <alanmacwise at yahoo.com> wrote:
David Hulan wrote: The Campbells are coming, Oh-ho, oh-ho,
The Campbells are coming with fife and drum,
The Campbells are coming from bonnie Loch Leven,
The Campbells are fighting to overcome.

I know the tune, too, but that's hard to convey on-line... :-) It's a
nice pentatonic melody that I suspect a lot of you might recognize if
you heard it.


If memory serves, I think there's a Bugs Bunny cartoon that uses the tune
(perhaps more than one), so it must have been a widely known melody. And still
is to some extent if I can rmember it from all my old Saturday morning TV
viewing.

Alan Wise