Day 1 - Tip begins work on Jack Pumpkinhead
Day 2 - Tip completes Jack - Mombi returns, brings Jack to life - in evening,s
  Tip frees Jack & runs away; walks all night ("moon and stars shone
  brightly"; last quarter?)
Day 3 - Tip enchants Sawhorse - party is separated - Jack & Sawhorse arrive
  in the Emerald City, where they meet the Scarecrow - Tip meets Gen. Jinjur,
  enters EC with Army of Revolt - Scarecrow, Tip, Jack & Sawhorse escape
  from palace, head to Tin Woodman's Castle - night along road
Day 4 - Tip's party arrives at the Tin Woodman's Castle
Day 5 - The Tin Woodman joins Tip's party - they leave for the EC - Mombi
  interferes with their progress - they meet the Wogglebug - they reach the EC
  and expell Jinjur from the palace - they build the Gump and escape, flying
  all night ("a cloudy sky, through which the rays of the moon could not
  penetrate")
Day 6 - The Gump smashes at the Jackdaws' nest - they fight the Jackdaws &
  the Gump is repaired - night in nest
Day 7 - The party leaves in the morning - the Scarecrow appeals to Glinda -
  Glinda tells the stories of Ozma and the Wizard - night in palace
Day 8 - Glinda summons council and decides to march against the EC
Day 9 - Glinda's army marches against the EC - arrives after nightfall ("by
  the dim light of the new moon")
Day 10 - Glinda's army besieges the EC - Glinda demands the surrender of Mombi
  - Jinjur invites her to search the city - Tin Woodman picks a rose
Day 11 - Glinda discovers Mombi and defeats her in a sorcerer's battle -
  disenchantment of Ozma
Day 12 - Glinda's army takes the EC - capture of Jinjur

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:55:12 -0500 (EST)
From: OzBucket at aol.com
Subject: Oz
 
Yeah, the Digests are shrinking these days. Maybe we need to go on to Land?
If so, I want to say that I thought the Scarecrow seemed uncharacteristically
MEAN when he first met Jack, who he then is supposed to consider "his new
friend." Excuse me, but I don't think anyone would say such cruel things to
anyone he thought of as a ":friend:". Of course, I admit that the Scarecrow's
character was not so well established yet, but GEEZ, this guy is downright
hateful! It still surprises me that such a great series evolved from these
first two books.

Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 10:09:50 -0800
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04-97
 
If discussion of THE [MARVELOUS] LAND OF OZ is beginning, an opening shot:
 
Baum only decided to write a second Oz book after the success of the
musical WIZARD OF OZ, his greatest financial success.  He planned the
second book to be stage adapted (the result, THE WOGGLE-BUG, was a
flop).  This esplains the army of Girls and the many excurciating puns.
Stage audiences adored them.  Do other traces of staginess show up in
this book?  Neill's illustrations for LAND are much stiffer than in
later books.  The Griffin Monbi is magnificent, however.
 
Steve T.

Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 14:40:15 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
Steve Teller: You mentioned the army of girls and excessive punning in "Land" as showing
Baum's intention of making a stage play out of it.  There's been a good deal of scattered
comment on that topic.  Fred Meyer, in "Dramatic Influence on Oz" (Best of the Baum Bugle 61-
62), included those two points, also the fact that the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman (who, as
impersonated by Montgomery and Stone, had been the most popular characters in the stage
"Wizard") were major characters.  Dan Mannix, in "Off to See the Wizard" (Best 67-69) added the
dedication of "Land" to Montgomery and Stone, the girl-faced sunflowers (for equivalent staging
of the "Wizard" poppies), the fact that Tip turns into a girl (a plot development that was pretty
standard in plays where the main character was a boy who was going to be expected to be
played by a young woman), and the inclusion of satire on the suffragette movement (more likely
to interest grownups, who would be present in a theater audience in large numbers, than the
children would be the majority of readers).  And Peter Glassman, in his afterword to the Books
of Wonder edition, commented that the scene between the Scarecrow and Jack Pumpkinhead,
with the rapid-patter cross-purposes conversation and the knockabout physical humor of pushing
Jack to sit down sounded like something meant to be staged.
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:13:23 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04 & 05-97
 
3/5:
Steve:
Discussion of THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ? Sure; I think the discussion of
WIZARD has pretty well petered out by now.
 
I think it's obvious that Baum had a stage play in mind when he was writing
LAND - there are not one but two armies of girls, plus the sunflowers with
the faces of beautiful girls - all good excuses for showing off legs. The
Woggle-bug and Jack Pumpkinhead were set up as a sort of Abbott and Costello
pair (before the days of A&C, to be sure, but the latter are just one of the
better-known examples of an old vaudeville tradition), probably hoping to
duplicate the popularity of Montgomery and Stone's Tin Woodman and Scarecrow.
 
As for Neill's illustrations, it looks to me as if he was trying to stick
closer to Denslow's style in this book than he was later, and it didn't suit
his talents. Denslow was a cartoonist; Neill was an illustrator. Both styles
are valid ways to illustrate a children's book (Dick Martin, George O'Connor,
and "Dirk" are cartoonists; Frank Kramer, Eric Shanower, and Melody Grandy
are illustrators), but it works better when an artist uses his or her natural
style.
 
And since we've been mentioning this kind of thing off and on lately, it
might be worthy of mention that LAND is the only Neill-illustrated Oz book I
know of where a female character (Glinda) shows unmistakeable cleavage. :-)
 
David Hulan

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 97 10:54:37 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
FROM _WIZARD_ TO _LAND_ (WITH QUICK DETOURS TO _WICKED_???):
>Discussion of THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ? Sure; I think the discussion of
>WIZARD has pretty well petered out by now.
 
Any other votes for our moving on the _Land_?  If so, then I have a
"transitional" question...Does anyone see any evidence (from _Land_
and from the musical) that from the _Wizard_ musical up until DOTWIZ
Baum's intent was for the Wizard to be evil (not unlike _Wicked_!)?
 
 
                              -- Dave

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 15:34:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
Dave Hardenbrook: Your suggestion that Baum might have been thinking of the Wizard as he
appears in the stageplay in having the Wizard be the one who turns the infant Ozma over to
Mombi sounds plausible.  "Villain" is maybe too strong a term.  He might actually have had in
mind the kind of scenario that Hugh Pendexter used in his "Oz and the 3 Witches" story, where
the Wizard thinks he is getting the kid into protection against the two Wickeds.  I forget to what
extent he is antagonistic in the stageplay. 
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 00:54:28 -0500 (EST)
From: RMorris306 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97
 
 
Ruth Berman wrote:
 
<<Dan Mannix, in "Off to See the Wizard" (Best 67-69) added the dedication of
"Land" to Montgomery and Stone, the girl-faced sunflowers (for equivalent
staging of the "Wizard" poppies), the fact that Tip turns into a girl (a plot
development that was pretty standard in plays where the main character was a
boy who was going to be expected to be played by a young woman)...>>
 
    That tradition seems to be on the way out (reportedly a new PETER PAN
movie is in the works that will have an actual boy as Peter), just as the
reverse tradition faded out (i.e., adult women played by boys, customary in
the 16th and 17th centuries...which is why Shakespeare's heroines are always
dressing as boys). But to some extent I've wondered to what extent Baum had
it in mind even in later years...a lot of his boys (not just the
deliberately-androgynous Chick, who *was* played by a female on stage) seem
to have androgynous, if not downright feminine, names (e.g., Inga, Kiki)...
 
Dave Hardenbrook wrote:
 
    <<Any other votes for our moving on the _Land_?  If so, then I have a
"transitional" question...Does anyone see any evidence (from _Land_ and from
the musical) that from the _Wizard_ musical up until DOTWIZ Baum's intent was
for the Wizard to be evil (not unlike _Wicked_!)?>>
 
    I think Baum wasn't really sure what the Wizard was actually like at the
time...in retrospect, I'm inclined to think Mombi tried to put all the blame
on him (rather than herself) since he wasn't there to defend himself.
 
Rich Morrissey

Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 18:50:31 -0800
From: serenadb at sos.net (Serena  DuBois)
Subject: Ozzy Digest 3/7/97
 
Re the Oz color coding question. I just finished rereading "Land" for the
week's discussion, and Baum made a BIG point of the color coding. Purple
grass, mud etc in the Gilliken Country changing to Green when they got near
the Emerald City. And Jinjur's army's costumes as well. THEY would have made
a great chorus line in a theatrical version particularly if balanced by
Glinda's army. 
 
And evidently cash or trade wasn't non-existent either since that ferryman
refused to take them across the river without payment, and they had to float
over on the Sawhorse, not to mention all the "stuff" surrounding the
Scarecrow being stuffed with the money from the Jackdaw's nest. Though of
course it was agreed in the end that the "Riches of Content" were the most
important. 
 
     Serena

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:36:19 -0500 (EST)
From: CrNoble at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97
 
Book of the Moment:
 
Have we started discussed _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ yet?  Here are a few
observations to get things rolling:
 
1.  The plot seems much more haphazard than I had remembered.  For example:
 Tip, the Scarecrow & co. escape the Emerald City to seek help from the Tin
Woodman, but then they go back to the City with no real plan.  All they
really accomplish is getting trapped again, this time with more friends to
share in the misery.  Also, the Woggle Bug wasn't so smart to wish the Gump
repaired following the crash in the Jackdaws nest.  Nor would it have been
terribly efficient to use a pill to wish the Gump to fly in the right
direction to Glinda's palace.  The silver wishing pills *could* have been
used to restore the Scarecrow to the throne.  Of course the story would have
ended right there, and Tip might never have been transformed back to Ozma.
 It's been discussed many times before how powerful magic gets conveniently
forgotten by Oz characters so as to keep the stories moving.
 
2. I had forgotten that Ozma was originally a blonde!  I think it's been said
in this forum that Neill needed to change her hair color so as to
differentiate her from Dorothy when they're drawn together.  This wouldn't
have been a problem, though, if Dorothy had stayed a brunette as in _Wizard_.
 I happen to like Ozma as a brunette and Dorothy as a blonde, but that's
probably because I'm used to them.
 
3. Notice the illustration of Glinda with cleavage.
 
4. Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't spoil?  I
don't remember.  Maybe his fears were simply unfounded.  Perhaps the Powder
of Life rendered his head unspoilable.
 
5. As in _Wizard_, bread and cheese seem to be popular foods for travelers.
 I suppose they're nourishing and have a relatively long shelf life (even if
they do get a little stale and moldy!).
 
Sorry so long,
Craig Noble

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:09:36 -0800
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97
 
> 4. Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't spoil?  I
> don't remember.  Maybe his fears were simply unfounded.  Perhaps the Powder
> of Life rendered his head unspoilable.
 
Actually Jack's head did spoil.  In (IBIW) ROAD TO OZ there is found a
graveyard of Jack's former heads.  However, everytime he but on a new
head it seemed to retain all his old memories.  That's why he lives in
the midst of a pumpkin patch.
 
Steve T.

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:42:46 -0800
From: Bob Spark <bspark at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97

Craig,
     "Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't
spoil? I don't remember.  Maybe his fears were simply unfounded. 
Perhaps the Powder of Life rendered his head unspoilable."

     In one of the later books someone is visiting Jack and remarks are
made about him raising a crop of pumpkins in order to replace the
current one when it gets old.  I can't recall which book it was.

Bob Spark

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:37:03 -0500 (EST)
From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97
 
Craig--Dorothy was a brunette in Wizard?  Not in Denslow's illustration.
I found it strange Neill drew Ozma blond when Tip had brown hair.  I could
never figured out why he did that.  I would assume that Tip and Ozma would
look fairly similar, at least in things as general as hair color, being
twins and all.
Scott

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:04:10 -0800
From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Craig:
The Wishing Pills might not have been powerful enough to restore the 
Scarecrow to the throne.  All magic has its limits.  Of course, we never 
found out, because, as you mentioned, the characters never thought of 
this idea.
 
In _Road_, it was revealed that Jack changes his head every month or so. 
He grows replacement heads in his pumpkin patch.
-- 
Nathan Mulac DeHoff
lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:14:20 -0800
From: ozbot <ozbot at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97

LAND--
This is one of my top three favorite Oz books, although I have to agree
with Baum's wierd plotting, and the irony of the wishing pills being able
to be their solution all along.

It's also ironic that Jinjur's great feministic stance (that men have been
ruling Oz for too long) is nonetheless riddled with stereotypes, as she
sits on a couch to eat bonbons and gets frightened by a mouse!

Also, I never really liked the Wogglebug character (sorry, David!) and his
presence seemed superfluous.  I would have preferred the group meeting up
with their friend the Lion, who would be able to add great force to their
group (although he'd probably be too afraid of hurting someone if he would
be pressured into fighting) and would most likely still be able to fulfill
Wogglebug's only significant action-- having a strong stomach to swalllow
the wishing pill.

More later. . . ?

Danny

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:27:32 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz

Jack's Head:
While his heads can and do spoil (see _The Road to Oz_), his first one did
seem to have staying power beyond that of most pumpkins, perhaps as you said
because that head got an actual dose of the powder of life. He makes an
extremely brief appearance at the end of _Ozma_ and is described as being
"a little overripe but still active".

As far as I can tell, he does not appear at all in _DotWiz_.

--Tyler Jones

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:06:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: Religion in Oz

5) Chris, concerning _Land_, perhaps Nick Chopper, being the national hero
of Winkieland for his destruction of Bastinda's bees and wolves, was
somewhat overconfident of his military progress.  As for the wishing
pills, I suspect that all forms of magic are limited, and this may be
something which is well-known in Oz.  As such, Tip and co. may have been
reluctant to wish for too much, lest the wish not be fulfiled--or worse.

Also:  Jack's head did spoil, but he lived on.  See _The Road to Oz_ to
find out how.

Random thought:  Tip may have gotten a stomach ache because Dr. Nikidik
made the wishing pills assuming that they would be swallowed by mortals
and not fairies.  In the computer world, the analogous situation is when a
program acts strangely when it is run under conditions that violate
assumptions that the programmer made.  I'd hate to see what the magical
equivalent of a computer crashing is.

Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman
adelman at ymail.yu.edu         North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:33:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu>
Subject: Ozzy Digest

Some observations on _The Marvelous Land of Oz_:

1) The Golden Cap:  during the trip to the Tin Woodman's castle, the 
Scarecrow tells Jack that "the Winged Monkeys are now the slaves of 
Glinda the Good, who owns the Golden Cap that commands their services." 
At the end of WWoO, however, Glinda states that she is using her three 
wishes to transport the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Lion to their 
respective realms, after which she will turn the Cap over to the head 
monkey and deliver all of the monkeys from slavery.  I assume this is 
another of Baum's little slips, but it would be interesting to know if 
anyone has come up with an adroit explanation for the discrepancy.

2)  Speaking of the Lion:  where is he??  I know that Baum wrote _Land_ 
with an eye to transforming it with as little effort as possible into a 
stage play, and for whatever reasons he evidently didn't want to include 
the Cowardly Lion as a character, but I find it truly odd that the Lion 
doesn't even rate a mention in Tip's account of Dorothy's adventures (p. 
36).  As far as I can see, the only reference to the Lion in the entire 
book is in the description of the Tin Woodman's ornamental silver oil 
can, which has engraved scenes of the Fab Four in their various 
adventures.  It's hard to account for this near-total erasure of the Lion 
from public memory--even if he's not an active character in the book, 
you'd expect at least some mention of how he is living happily in the 
forest as King of the Beasts.

3)  Mortality:  as people have mentioned, this is an exceedingly jokey 
book (again with an eye to stage dialogue), but it also has a distinctly 
dark side to it.  I don't know of any other Oz book that has so many 
references to death. Poor Jack Pumpkinhead is obsessed with the thought 
of his ongoing decay, and the Gump positively has a death wish:  "My only 
satisfaction is that I do not seem to have a very strong constitution, 
and am not likely to live long in a state of slavery."  I wonder if Baum 
had second thoughts about all this talk of mortality and for that reason 
arranged for Ozma to abolish death from the Land of Oz.

Craig:  at the end of _Land_ Baum says that Jack Pumpkinhead remained 
with Ozma to the end of his days and did not spoil as soon as he had 
feared, but in _Road_ Dorothy encounters Jack in the best of health and 
currently on his fourth head (the previous three have been ceremonially 
buried with gravestones), managing a big pumpkin patch for the 
cultivation of new heads which Ozma herself continues to carve for him--a 
really nice touch, I think.

4)  Who's Alice? In the illustration of Professor Nowitall's classroom 
(p. 147), if you look very closely at the front desk you will see the 
name Alice B. carved into the wood, with what looks like the initial D. 
beneath it and an arrow-pierced heart below that.  Does anyone know if
Neill had a real Alice in mind in this detail?  Could Alice B. be a Baum
relative?

5)  Arithmetic:  I don't know about the rest of you, but I always have
had the feeling that the Sawhorse's solution to the problem of counting
to seventeen by two's involves an illegal maneuver.  Doubling one-half to
make one doesn't really constitute counting by two's, does it?

6)  The Grassy Knoll:  shortly before that quotation about the Golden 
Cap, the Scarecrow remarks, "It was upon this grassy knoll that I once 
saved Dorothy from the Stinging Bees of the Wicked Witch of the West."  
Funny how that quirky little phrase shows up in a children's story 59 
years before it became an indelible part of the vocabulary of national 
trauma and conspiracy theory.

7)  The plot:  I agree with Craig that the return to the Emerald City 
with nothing more than a few field mice to scare Jinjur and her army 
doesn't make a lot of sense.  Why not go directly to Glinda for help?  On 
the other hand, that shortcut would have deprived us of the grumpy Gump, 
one of the most interesting characters in the book.  Also:  counting this 
trip to the Emerald City there are a total of three major encounters with 
Jinjur (her initial seizure of the EC, the recapture of the throne room, 
and the final battle with Glinda), and clearly Baum favored three-fold 
repetitions of plot elements, a structural device that is central to folk 
fairy tales and shows up very strongly in WWoZ as well.

Speaking of the Gump, not to mention a much more recent Gump:  I see that 
the OED defines a gump as "a foolish person, a dolt" and gives citations 
back to 1825.  

I had some further comments about eating beans with a knife and General 
Jinjur's brand of feminism, but--enough is enough!

--Gordon Birrell

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:02:46 -0800
From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest

Scott:
I believe that, in _Land_, Baum described Ozma as having "golden 
tresses," or something like that.  As for Ozma looking like Tip, Mombi 
would probably have wanted Tip to look almost nothing like Ozma, so that 
no one would recognize him/her as a member of the Royal Family.  Melody's 
_Disenchanted Princess_ explains where Tip's form originated.

Danny:
I like the Wogglebug's character, but I agree that he added little to the 
plot of _Land_.  Apparently Baum thought that the Wogglebug would make a 
good stage character.  I remember reading somewhere that the Highly 
Magnified one's style of puns was popular in theaters of the time.  BTW, 
one reason I like the Wogglebug's character is because I can identify 
with him.  I know what it's like to make a pun that no one but myself 
appreciates.

Aaron:
In _Wooglet in Oz_, Chris states his belief that-Wait!  Better use one of 
these:

************************SPOILERS FOR _WOOGLET IN OZ_********************
Now, where was I?  Oh, yes.  Chris states his belief that it was the 
sloppy algebra that gave Tip pains.  The Sawhorse really didn't solve the 
problem of how to count to seventeen by twos, since the first step was a 
MULTIPLICATION by two!
**********************END SPOILERS**************************************

That's all for today.
-- 
Nathan Mulac DeHoff
lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:04:56 -0500
From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 3-28-97

Between "Wizard" and "Land," there's quite a character change in the Tin
Woodman. After the Winkie tinsmiths repair him--"to be sure, there were
several patches on him, but the tinsmiths did a good job, and as the
Woodman was not a vain main he did not mind the patches at all. In "Land,"
though, being ruler of the Winkies must have affected him--when Tip tells
theScarecrow that Nick's not really an emperor--his kingdom's too
small--the Scarecrow warns him not to say that to Nick because he is
"proud."

One person opined that the stage portrayal of the Tin Woodman may have
influenced Baum to turn Nick from "not vain" to "vain." 

Of course, perhaps Baum felt it was realistic to have Nick's newfound power
affect him that way.

As a child, I also enjoyed "The Wizard's" descriptions of the immense weath
of Oz. Jewels! Gold! But only because I thought it would be nice if
everyone could be rich. And good. (I still do! :-) :-)  ) Of all fantasies
ever read, Oz fulfils that fantasy best. :-) :-)

Melody Grandy

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:35:48 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97

I just got back from visiting my mother in Tennessee and it's late, so I
won't comment extensively, but I did want to mention to Craig that Jack's
heads _do_ spoil; the tombstones of three of them turn up in ROAD. Apparently
adding a regular carved pumpkin to his body brings it magically to life.

David Hulan

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 97 00:48:44 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things

Gordon wrote:
>5)  Arithmetic:  I don't know about the rest of you, but I always have
>had the feeling that the Sawhorse's solution to the problem of counting 
>to seventeen by two's involves an illegal maneuver.  Doubling one-half to 
>make one doesn't really constitute counting by two's, does it?

I would say that the definition of "counting by twos" is starting with
two and incrementing by two...In C++ it would be:

void Wishing_Pill::Count_to_seventeen()
{
     for(i = 2; i < 17; i += 2)  // Start with 2 and increment by 2 each time
     {
          cout << i << endl;  // Print the number we're currently counting

          if(i == 17) Grant_Wish();  // This will *never* be executed
                                     // because i will *never* be 17! :(
     }
}

The output of this will be the even numbers: 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16.  The next
iteration will increment i from 16 to 18 bypassing 17.  Now that I've shown
off my programming knowledge, I come to the conclusion that counting to
17 by twos is utterly impossible!  The only two avenues of escape is if (A) Oz
uses an alternate number/numeral system in which the symbol '17' represents
an even number; or, more likely, (B) In Oz, "counting by twos" has a broader
definition, and can also mean starting with one and counting odd numbers...
*This* will work:

void Wishing_Pill::Count_to_seventeen()
{
     for(i = 1; i < 17; i += 2)  // Start with 1 and increment by 2 each time
     {
          cout << i << endl;  // Print the number we're currently counting

          if(i == 17) Grant_Wish();  // Grant the wish when i equals 17! :)
     }
}

Output: 1,3,5,7,11,13,15,17
                         ^^
We hit 17, and our wish is granted!!! :) :)

(The preceeding code was reprinted with the kind permission of 
 The Magic of Everything Faerie Programmers of Nonestica, Inc.) :) :) :)

                             -- Dave

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 06:21:28 -0800
From: Bob Spark <bspark at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97

Gordon,
     Re: "Speaking of the Gump, not to mention a much more recent Gump: 
I see that the OED defines a gump as "a foolish person, a dolt" and
gives citations back to 1825."

     There once was a comic strip character named Andy Gump who was
quite a foolish person.  I don't know if he was in existence in 1825
(rather doubt it) but if there are any OZ connections I can't make
them.  Baum's Gump is definitely not "a foolish person, a dolt". 

Bob Spark

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:52:26 +0500
From: rri0189 at ibm.net
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97

2) I have always assumed, even from childhood, that the Sawhorse's logic
in counting seventeen by two's fossilizes an old school rote formula
that runs:  "Counting by twos:  two, twice two is four, six, eight,
ten....".  It is not unheard of for paedegogical paradigms (Hey!  I used
the word correctly!) to fall out of fashion.  Perhaps some people on the
Digest are old enough to remember:

   a, e, i, o, u, and sometimes y & w

(It's true; there are a very, very few rare English words of Welsh origin,
such as "cwm" [an English borrowing with the same Celtic root as "coomb",
which is itself one of the dozen or so British {i.e., proto-Welsh}  words
to survive from pre-Anglo-Saxon, pre-Roman times into modern English],
in which "w" is used as a vowel.)

or
 
   ST. WAPNIACL.
 
(If no-one can remember, or guess, who the old saint is, I'll update on a
later posting.)

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:41:19 -0800
From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Gordon:
The Scarecrow was probably incorrect when he stated that Glinda had the 
Golden Cap.  After all, if Glinda fulfilled her plans at the end of 
_Wizard_, the Scarecrow would have been in the Emerald City by the time 
that Glinda gave the cap to the Monkey King.
 
Death might be mentioned more in _Wizard_ than it is in _Land_, but it is 
mentioned many times in both.  Someone once mentioned that, when death is 
mentioned in _Land_, it is in a more humorous way than in _Wizard_, with 
Jinjur's threat to turn the Wogglebug into goulash cited as an example.
-- 
Nathan Mulac DeHoff
lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:27:15 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-24 thru 27-97
 
3/27:
Craig:
March 26 was supposed to be the kickoff date for discussing LAND, so you're
not premature.
 
I agree that the plot of the book is haphazard - pretty much the classic
"idiot plot", meaning that if the lead characters would stop acting like
idiots for five minutes, the story would end right there.
 
I noted that in the first chapter, Tip refers to his having had the ague
"last year". This appears to be pretty conclusive evidence that human illness
had not been abolished in Oz prior to Ozma's accession, and if illness hadn't
been abolished, then aging and death probably hadn't either, though that's
inference and not conclusive.
 
Also, something that bothered me even when I first read the book at age 8 or
so - starting at one-half is no help in counting to seventeen by twos. It's
true that one is twice one-half, but counting by twos is an arithmetic
progression, not a geometric one. If you want to count to seventeen by twos
you have to start at minus one. (Or just start with one in the first place.)
 
David Hulan

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:48:23 -0800
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97
 
> From: Gordon Birrell
 
> Some observations on _The Marvelous Land of Oz_:
> 
> 1) The Golden Cap:  during the trip to the Tin Woodman's castle, the
> Scarecrow tells Jack that "the Winged Monkeys are now the slaves of
> Glinda the Good, who owns the Golden Cap that commands their services."
> At the end of WWoO, however, Glinda states that she is using her three
> wishes to transport the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Lion to their
> respective realms, after which she will turn the Cap over to the head
> monkey and deliver all of the monkeys from slavery.  I assume this is
> another of Baum's little slips, but it would be interesting to know if
> anyone has come up with an adroit explanation for the discrepancy.
> 
The Scarecrow has a leaky memory?
 
> Craig:  at the end of _Land_ Baum says that Jack Pumpkinhead remained
> with Ozma to the end of his days and did not spoil as soon as he had
> feared, but in _Road_ Dorothy encounters Jack in the best of health.
 
Baum intended MARVELOUS LAND to be his last Oz book.  Later he intended
EMERALD CITY to be the last Oz book.  He just couldn't kill his best
cash cow.
 
 
> I had some further comments about eating beans with a knife and General
> Jinjur's brand of feminism, but--enough is enough!
> 
"I Eat my peas with honey.
I've Done it all my life.
They do taste kinda funny,
But it keeps them on my knife."
 
Steve T.

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:30:16 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Gordon:
The boring explanation, of course, is that the brainy Scarecrow simply forgot
about Glinda's promise to the King, and did not know of the three-service
limit. Of course, Glinda could have altered the cap so that the owner
(herself) could use it indefinitely, but that seems out of character for
Glinda, especially since she said that she wanted to grant the monkeys
their freedom. Perhaps the Monkeys were so impressed with Glinda (she is,
after all, something special) that they volunteered to serve her without the
cap.
 
I forgot if _The Marvelous Monkeys of Oz_ or _The Winged Monkeys of Oz_
mentioned the cap. Can anybody help out?
 
In the non-HACCurate _A Barnstormer in Oz_, after Glinda gives the cap to
King Izarndanduz (The iron-handed one), who hides it, but somebody finds it
again...
 
The lion's absence is unusual. If the lion had been there, we would have had
a very interesting parallel with the first book.
 
However, it is perhaps better in the long run that it did not happen this
way. IMHO, it would have set a bad precedent and it's possible that almost
all Oz books would be about somebody who journeys around Oz with those same
three characters.
 
Death in _Land_:
Also, Jinjur deliberately gives full details on how each of Tip's companions
will come to their grisly end.
 
counting to 17 by 2's:
It's an interesting parallel to the Scarecrow's mangling of the pythagorean
theorem in the MGM movie. It would have been easier to simply start at one,
which after all IS a natural starting point for any counting sequence. I
suspect that the spell simply ignored the one-half part.
 
Gordon, I must confess: I was the second Scarecrow behind the grassy knoll.
 
Dave:
Cool program, but you forgot to pass in a pointer to the wish itself! :-)
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:03:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: Arithmetic in Oz
 
1) Gordon, yes, the Sawhorse cheated on his math.
 
2) Nathan, what does _Wooglet_ say about why the Wogglebug didn't get
stomach pains?  He started from 0.5 as well.
 
Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman
adelman at ymail.yu.edu         North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire

Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 21:18:56 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
MANY "GUMPS":
No one has mentioned Forrest Gump yet! :)
 
Gump: Actually, Forest Gump is the wood where my species lives... :)
 
 
FROM _WIZARD_ TO _LAND_:
Our BCF discussion has kind of made a nice smooth transition on its
own from _Wizard_ to _Land_ without official announcement from me...
I hope it is always like this... :)
 
I now have a very important _Land_-related question...What ***DID*** the 
Wogglebug say???? :)
 
                               -- Dave

Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:34:14 -0600
From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Dave:
I am mightily impressed with your use of programming language to set up the
complicated maneuver of counting by two's from one to seventeen.  Still, the
question remains of establishing 1 as the initial integer in a progression
that proceeds by two's.  Doubling 1/2 actually sets up a different series
than the one the Sawhorse comes up with, if you follow the old rule that
Rich (?? you didn't sign your name) cited:
 
>I have always assumed, even from childhood, that the Sawhorse's logic
>in counting seventeen by two's fossilizes an old school rote formula
>that runs:  "Counting by twos:  two, twice two is four, six, eight,
>ten....".  
 
According to this formula, you could indeed reach 17 as follows:  "Counting
by twos:  one-half, twice one-half is one, two, three, four, five, six, . .
. seventeen."
 
Also Dave:
I was referring to Forrest Gump when I wrote "a much more recent Gump";
guess I shouldn't have been so oblique.
 
Danny:
I agree with you about Jinjur's brand of feminism.  Any true feminist would
cringe at these totally unreconstructed women with their love of chocolates
and caramels, their fear of mice, their knitting needles, their laziness,
their uncontrolled greed for jewelery.  Jinjur's plans for doing away with
the Woggle-Bug (death by cooking--turning him into a spicy goulash) is
further evidence of her inability to get beyond conventional feminine
thinking.  All this is a far cry from the women who struggled with great
courage and dignity, and often at considerable personal risk, to secure
women's right to vote.  Since Baum had close associations with the
suffragette movement, he must have created Jinjur as an awful example of how
*not* to go about securing women's rights.  Still, it's unfortunate that his
characterization of Jinjur played (plays) right into the hands of those who
would dismiss the feminist movement as a peevish and petty revolt against
the natural order of things.
 
Incidentally, here is how Baum describes Jinjur's uniform:  ". . . her
silken waist being of emerald green and her skirt of four distinct
colors--blue in front, yellow at the left side, red at the back and purple
at the right side."  We later hear that the green waist represents the
Emerald City and the other sections refer to the colors of the four
quadrants of Oz.  Yes, but!  If blue, representing the Eastern quadrant of
the Munchkins, is in front, then yellow, representing the Western Winkies,
should be in back, not on the left; purple, representing the northern
Gillikins, should be on the left side, not the right; and red, representing
the southern Quadlings, should be on the right side, not in back.  Perhaps
Baum was suggesting that Jinjur is as wrongheaded about Oz geography as she
is about everything else.
 
On the Wizard's "suspicious" action of eating beans with a knife:  I'm
curious to know whether the younger members of the Digest have heard about
that rule of etiquette that warns you against using a knife to eat beans or
peas.  I remember being very puzzled about that rule when I was growing up.
It apparently means that you shouldn't use the knife to shovel the beans or
peas onto your fork instead of daintily lifting them up with the fork alone.
It's amusing that the Wizard's disregard for this rule marks him as a person
of potentially questionable character--but does anyone take the rule
seriously these days?  Or even know about it?
 
--Gordon Birrell

Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:34:40 -0800
From: ozbot <ozbot at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97
 
WHEN I WAS SEVENTEEN
Hm.  I had the same experience with feeling uncomfortable with the
Sawhorse's counting stradegy.  As a kid, I was excited beacuse I thought I
figured out the "secret" behind the wishing pills-- "just start counting at
ONE" my mind was shouting happily.  Then they started counting at one-half,
and I was a little disappointed.  Kind of like picking the wrong suspect in
an Agatha Christie novel, which I also seem to do more often than not. 
 
Danny

Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:25:39 -0500
From: Richard Bauman <RBauman at compuserve.com>
Subject: Today's Oz Growls
 
Bob - I thought Gump came from gumption in Sidney Smiths strip, "The
Gumps."  Your dictionary is much bigger than mine.  In any event, I think
"The Gumps" started in February 1916, long after our BCF was written.  
 
The Land of Oz
 
p.16 "Mombi met a crooked wizard who resided in a lonely cave in the
mountains."  Now there's a story line for someone. 
p. 35 The color thing - everything is purple - grass, trees, houses, fences
- Yuk!  I have a hard time with purple asparagus.   
p. 79 Here is the answer to one question.  There is only one language in Oz.  
p. 154 Now why would Baum give tailors nine lives?  Curious?
p. 262 Apparently the "Deadly Desert" wasn't at this time, because they all
walked around in it. 
p. 276 Another question answered: "All down her back (Ozma's) floated
tresses of ruddy gold." 
 
The "author's note" is interesting.  The book was launched by 1000 little
letters from 1000 little girls.  
 
It is interesting that Baum changed a fairy girl into a boy in "The
Enchanted Island of Yew" which came out in 1903.  He must have liked the
idea as he changed Ozma into a boy in 1904 in our BCF.  
 
Now it will be three more years before "Ozma of Oz" comes out in 1907.
 
Regards, Bear  (:<)

Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:31:44 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Explanations:
While it is fun to figure out clever explanations for things which seem odd,
such as the Scarecrow mentioning that Glinda still controlls the Winged
Monkeys via the Golden Cap, (and I do this more than anybody), most of the
time, it can probbaly be safely assumed that someone (be it the character,
the informer, the narrator or the publisher) simply made a mistake. Nobody
gets every detail right every time, after all. Not even me :-) (I now wait
patiently for the lightning to strike).
 
more counting triviata:
Well, there is usually a zero at the beginning of sequences when computers
are concerned, but Tip may not have known this.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 23:14:26 -0800
From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Aaron:
_Wooglet_ suggests that it was the Wogglebug's strong stomach that 
allowed him to swallow the pill without a pain.
-- 
Nathan Mulac DeHoff
lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/

Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 11:11:28 -0800
From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
On the Jackdaws' Nest:
All right.  Here's something that actually pertains to our BCF.  Where do
people think the jackdaws' nest is located?  Haff and Martin place it in
Aurissau, while Pendexter (in _Wooglet_) suggests that it is in New
Mexico.  The Scarecrow thinks that the Gump has flown into the Great
Outside World, but there is a possibility that it flew to another part of 
Nonestica, with which the Scarecrow was unfamiliar.  It is true that the 
nest contains dollar bills, but, according to "The Queen of Quok," Quok, 
which is placed not far from the jackdaws' nest by Haff and Martin, uses 
dollars and cents as currency.  The many treasures in the nest would be 
more likely to exist in Nonestica than in the Outside World.  Anyway, 
what do you think?  Also, why did the Ozites seem to recognize the dollar 
bills as money, when there is no indication that Oz ever used paper 
money?
-- 
Nathan Mulac DeHoff
lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/

Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 14:54:25 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digests, 03-28 thru 03-31-97
 
 
 
3/28:
Scott H.:
In the color plates of my BoW edition of WIZARD, Dorothy appears to be more
of a redhead than anything else. Not flaming red, but sort of chestnut.
Definitely not what I think of as brunette (which would be like Ozma in the
later books).
 
Danny:
The Woggle-bug character isn't supposed to be liked. That's not his function
in any of the books where he appears. (Including the one I've written.) But I
enjoy writing about what a friend on GEnie (back in the good old days of
GEnie) referred to as "pain-in-the-ass characters". That's why my first three
Oz novels have centered on Bungle, Eureka, and the Professor. Some others
that fall into that category include Button-Bright, Queen Ann, Quox, Bilbil
(but unfortunately he had a personality change when he was disenchanted), the
Frogman, Red Reera, and Kabumpo. None of them are at all evil, even in the
mild Ozzy sense, but they all have personality flaws that make them
frequently annoying.
 
It's true that the Woggle-bug is largely superfluous to the story of LAND (as
you point out, the only significant act he does is to swallow the wishing
pill, and it would have had no effect on the story if Tip hadn't gotten
cramps from it); he was clearly added with the projected stage production in
mind.
 
3/30:
Gordon:
I agree with the person who said that the Scarecrow simply forgot that Glinda
had said she'd give the King of the Winged Monkeys the Golden Cap after he'd
granted her wishes. Though I suppose it's possible that the King thought it
would be safer with Glinda than anywhere else he could store it; presumably
destroying it isn't feasible.
 
The absence of the Lion is probably due to the fact that the Scarecrow and
Tin Woodman dominated the stage play (in the persons of Stone and
Montgomery), so they were the only major characters from the first book to
reappear in the second - which, as several people have remarked, was clearly
written as the basis for another play. Note that the only "normal" animals
that appear in LAND are the field mice; animals are harder to use on stage.
(Or, from the Oz-as-history point of view, the Lion didn't appear in LAND
because that was the way it happened!)
 
Nathan:
The phrase Baum used about Ozma's hair was "tresses of ruddy gold." Oddly, he
said her lips were "tinted like a tourmaline," which is pretty ambiguous.
bluish-green. If he wanted to avoid the cliched "ruby" I'd have thought he'd
have chosen "garnet" or some other gem that's characteristically red or pink.
 
3/31:
Bob:
The Gumps of the comics certainly don't date back to 1825. It's a fairly
early comic strip, but it started, as nearly as I can figure from my source,
in 1911 or 1912. (So if there's any connection, it's Baum's Gump that
inspired the comic Gumps and not vice versa. It's not impossible; "The Gumps"
got its start in the Chicago Tribune.) Actually, though, Andy Gump wasn't
particularly foolish, and his Uncle Bim Gump was a billionaire.
 
Tyler:
I don't remember if THE WINGED MONKEYS mentioned the Golden Cap, but it
certainly isn't used to command them in that book.
 
Dave:
The Woggle-bug said a great many things, but the question was asked in
connection with QUEER VISITORS, not LAND.
 
David Hulan

Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:57:09 -0500 (EST)
From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97
 
I think it is interesting to think about jinjur in modern terms.  she is a
sort of "feminazi," a radical feminist insistent upon getting even with
men.  This is the reason, I believe, Baum portrays her this way,
suggesting that a 180- is as wrongheaded as anything else.  There are some
feminists like that today, and some of them are the loudest.  I think he
showed quite a bit of foresight in his parody.
Scott

Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:06:52 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Gordon:
Your analysis of Jinjur's skirt is an interesting parallel to Edmund and
Eustace commenting that girls lack an understanding of geography.
 
I can dimly remember my grandmother admonishing me not to use my knife to
scoop up food onto my fork, but I haven't thought of it in about 20 years.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:16:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: The Table Manners of the Wizard (Ozzy Digest)
 
1) Gordon, there's a rule against using the knife to put peas and beans
onto the fork?
 
3) Bear, concerning your notes on _Land_,
        1) Dr. Pipt in _Patchwork Girl_ says he is the Crooked Magician
who gave Mombi the Powder of Life.  I presume that either he was living in
the Gillikin Country at the time or Mombi lied about her destination and
walked (or self-transformed into a bird and flew) to the Gillikin-Munchkin
border.
        2) Purple food may be unpalatable, but blue food is really
unnatural.  Considering that the national coloration isn't always present
on things like trees, grass, and mud, maybe it varies with the magic flux.
        4) Why shouldn't tailors have nine lives?
        6) An solution to the problem of Ozma's changing hair coloring
will appear in _Woozy_.
 
Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman
adelman at ymail.yu.edu         North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire

Date: Thu, 03 Apr 97 00:01:16 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
Nathan wrote:
>All right.  Here's something that actually pertains to our BCF.  Where do
>people think the jackdaws' nest is located?    Haff and Martin place it in
>Aurissau, while Pendexter (in _Wooglet_) suggests that it is in New
>Mexico...
 
If the IWOC map says Aurissau, I go along...I don't think any of the party,
being all magical beings except Tip, could have survived beyond Nonestica...
 
Now that our BCF is _Land_, I want to ask one of the "biggies" of Ozzy
problems...Are Nikidik and Dr.Pipt the same bloke or not????? :)
 
 
                             -- Dave

Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:37:34 -0800
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97
 
> Bob:
> The Gumps of the comics certainly don't date back to 1825. It's a fairly
> early comic strip, but it started, as nearly as I can figure from my source,
> in 1911 or 1912. (So if there's any connection, it's Baum's Gump that
> inspired the comic Gumps and not vice versa. It's not impossible; "The Gumps"
> got its start in the Chicago Tribune.) Actually, though, Andy Gump wasn't
> particularly foolish, and his Uncle Bim Gump was a billionaire.
> 
All right:
 
From the Oxford Enlgihs Dictionary (original edition):
 
"Gump  . . . dial and U.S.  A foolish person, a dolt.  [Earliest
citation] 1825 JAMIESON, Suupl., Gump, a numskull; a term most generally
applied to a female, conveying the idea a great stupidity."
 
Steve T.

Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:59:19 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Aaron and Dave:
Somebody wrote an article in the _Bugle_ concerning the identity of Dr. Pipt
and Dr. Nikidik. Some think that they are the same person, and that Dr.
Nikidik, for some unknown reason, had to flee the Gillikin country and
change his name. Others suggest that Pipt merely got the box from another
wizard, never noticed the false bottom, and traded it away to Mombi. I
favor the latter theory.
 
Jackdaw's Nest:
For pretty much the same reasons as Dave, it is highly likely that the nest
was in Nonestica just the other side of the desert.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:11:12 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97
 
LAND: Baum's chauvinistic description of Jinjur was apparently meant as 
an affectionate dig at his mother-in-law, a major in the suffragette 
movement. 

Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:33:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97
 
David: Tourmaline comes in a red variety (Rubellite). Perhaps that's what 
Baum was thinking.
--Robin

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 97 23:10:21 
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
Could Nikidik and Pipt be related, like father-son or something?
 
                             -- Dave

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:40:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97
 
Nikidik/Pipt: There are several references in the FF indicating that they
are one and the same person. All I remember now is that they deal with
who Mombi got the Powder of Life from.
 
--Robin

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:47:27 +0500
From: rri0189 at ibm.net
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97
Content-id: <23_78_1_860161647>
 
1) Since no one seems to remember old St. Wapniacl any more....
 
State
Treasury
 
War
Attorney General
Postmaster General
Navy
Interior
Agriculture
Commerce
Labor
 
...the names (for most of the first half of this century) of the cabinet
departments in order of their creation, and therefore the order of
succession after the Vice-President.  (The provision inserting the
Speaker of the House and the President Pro-tem of the Senate before
the cabinet is also recent.)
 
2) I always supposed the mishmash of "Land" and "Ozma" that is "Return"
was a (more or less) honorable attempt by Disney to get past the -- errr
-- unsuitable character of Jinjur while still leaving the state of affairs
at the end suitable for further films along canonical lines.
 
// John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit"

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:36:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
David Hulan: As you say, Denslow didn't draw Dorothy as either blonde or 
brunette.  (Dictionary definition of brunette is not brown-haired but 
dark-brown-haired.)  I suppose "chestnut" is a reasonable description, 
although I think of chestnut as more of a distinctly "red" (which in hair 
terms is more like orange) shade.  Denslow's Dorothy looks to me more like 
a "Jeanie with the light brown hair" shade.  On tourmaline -- it looks as 
if Baum must have been familiar mainly with the pink kind.  There's a 
Tourmaline among the Pinks in "Sky Island," I think.
 
Scott Hutchins: Before comparing Jinjur to "feminazis," you need to find 
some to compare her to.  The term was invented as a pejorative, and as it 
is actually used, it means any "feminist" and expresses the user's 
discomfort with the theory that women should be paid comparably to men for 
comparable work and that society should try to get set up to make it 
possible for both women and men to participate in both raising families and 
in earning livings.Most feminists do want to "get even" with men in that 
sense, but you presumably mean "get even" in the sense of "pay back 
oppression with equal oppression."  Who are these "loud" examples you have 
in mind, and have you read what they wrote, or are you going on summaries 
by biased observers?  As Gordon Birrell said, it is unfortunate that Baum's 
characterization of Jinjur played and plays "into the hands of those who 
would dismiss the feminist movement as a peevish and petty revolt against 
the natural order of things."  (By the way, you asked for suggestions on 
what happened to Jinjur's husband, as he isn't seen in later books.  
There's no reason why anything should have happened to him.  He doesn't 
even need to be off on a journey or divorced, the suggestions Tyler Jones 
mentioned.  He is, obviously, a quiet fellow, and is probably still there 
and still inclined to avoid getting involved in active sorts of activities.)
 
Gordon Birrell on why Jinjur's uniform does not arrange the Oz colors 
geographically: Possibly she was thinking aesthetically (she is 
characterized in later books as something of an artist), and thought blue 
and purple looked better separated by red and yellow, rather than having 
two cool colors together and two warms.
 
Dave Hardenbrook on whether Dr. Pipt and Dr. Nikidik are the same person: 
Sure, why not?  Going on foot from mid-north-Gillikin country to a 
Munchkinland destination may seem to call for a longer time en route than 
it took Mombi, but, as Aaron pointed out, the magician might have been 
living in the Gillikin country at the time, or Mombi might have gone part 
of the way by magic.  It's been suggested that he changed his name from 
Nikidik to Pipt (possibly in staging a supposed death, as he was reported 
dead in "Road").  But I'm inclined to think that his full name was Nikidik 
Pipt, and that he didn't stage his death, but just moved (out of the 
Gillikin country?) on short notice and was supposed dead.  He might have 
moved, as has been suggested, in hopes of avoiding Ozma's ban on 
unauthorized magic, but it might have been something unrelated.  (Possibly 
he worried that dealing with Mombi was a dangerous sort of occupation, and 
he headed out of Gillikin territory about the same time Tip did, and for a 
similar reason?)
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:43:46 -0600
From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
More on eating beans with a knife:
Margaret Visser takes up this problem in _The Rituals of Dinner_ (Harper
Collins, 1991).  Turns out that the fork as we know it today was relatively
late to evolve; the earlier version, still in widespread use in the
nineteenth century, resembled the carving fork of today, with just two
widely spaced tines. The late-nineteenth-century table knife, on the other
hand, generally had a wide blade, rounded at the end and shaped like a
spatula--unlike the tapered knives of today (you can still see this shape in
old flatware sets).  Visser refers to the "fork revolution" that occurred
when the modern model with four tines was introduced in the nineteenth
century:  at that point it became possible to pick up the food and
gracefully bring it to one's mouth without the danger of grievous bodily
injury (as would be the case with the old fork) or the appearance of
shovelling the food into one's mouth (as would be the case if you piled up
the beans--not green beans, but baked beans--on the flat knife).  As a
result of the ongoing etiquette war between the fork and the knife, the
knife was eventually demoted to a cutting function only, and people like
Emily Post were quite firm in stating that the knife should never be used
for any other function, such as piling food onto the fork, and should never
under *any* circumstances be actually brought to the mouth.
 
So the Wizard, by eating beans with his knife, would be revealing his
ignorance of the new polite and sophisticated table manners.  My hunch is
that rural America held on to the old ways much longer than the city folk,
and that's why it's amusing that the Scarecrow, in all innocence, attempts
to defend the Wizard's eating habits by saying "Maybe that's the polite way
to eat in Omaha."
 
--Gordon Birrell  

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:12:04 -0500 (EST)
From: CrNoble at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
David:
 
I agree that Dorothy appears to have chestnut colored hair in the BoW
_Wizard_ color plates.  My dictionary describes chestnut as a "reddish
brown."  However, I've always divided the world into blondes, brunettes and
redheads, and I have (perhaps mistakenly) classified all brown-haired people
as brunettes.  Since chestnut is a reddish brown and not a brownish red, I
consider Denslow's Dorothy to be a brunette.  In any event, she's certainly
not a blonde.
 
I raised this issue in the first place because I was wondering why Neill
changed Ozma's hair color between _Land_ and _Ozma_.  The only explanation
I've ever heard was that he did it in order to prevent confusion when drawing
Ozma next to Dorothy.  I simply pointed out that if Neill had kept Dorothy's
dark hair, he wouldn't have had to change Ozma's light hair.  The most
plausible explanation to me is that Neill originally drew Ozma in _Land_ as a
blonde because blondes were considered more beautiful.  Then when it was time
to draw Dorothy in _Ozma_, he made her a blonde for the same reason.  Later
when he had to picture them together, he must have decided to switch Ozma's
hair color -- perhaps because the red poppies in her hair would contrast more
attractively if she were a brunette.
 
_Land of Oz_:
 
I'll add my voice to the chorus confused about counting to 17 by 2's.  I must
have thought I would look stupid if I admitted to not understanding what must
be simple to a child.  So I said nothing.  Instead, I showed my spoiled
pumpkinhead by asking the obvious question about Jack's head!
 
Craig Noble

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:43:21 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digests
 
4/2:
Gordon:
I don't know about a "rule" about using a knife to shovel one's peas or beans
onto the fork - to be honest, the idea never occurred to me. Or maybe I tried
it once when I was too young to remember and was told so firmly not to that
it's become a repressed memory. Do people use knives to push beans onto a
fork? Seems awkward to me - either I have to eat left-handed or the knife and
fork are in the wrong hands.
 
Bear:
Most asparagus has a purplish cast at the tips.
 
I suspect that Baum's giving tailors nine lives may be an allusion to the
saying, "Nine tailors make a man." My memory on the subject is rather vague
at this point, but I believe that in English villages it was customary to
ring the largest church bell nine times to mark the death of an adult male
(there were different numbers of rings for females and children), and that
the largest bell (if there was more than one) was called the "tailor". (That
was the origin of the title of Dorothy Sayers' classic mystery centered
around bell-ringing, THE NINE TAILORS.) That, at least, would be where I'd
start researching if I wanted to determine why Baum associated nine lives
with tailors as opposed to some other occupation.
 
It's possible that the Great Sandy Waste along the southern border of Oz
wasn't as deadly as the Deadly Desert along the western border; that's the
only one that's definitely recorded as destroying all living flesh to touch
it. I don't think there's even evidence that the GSW gives off toxic fumes,
as we know the Shifting Sands to the east and the Impassable Desert to the
north do (from MAGIC and SILVER PRINCESS respectively).
 
4/3:
Nathan:
I agree with Haff and Martin (and Dave); the jackdaws' nest is almost
certainly on the continent of Nonestica. First, as Dave says, it's unlikely
that any of the adventurers but Tip would survive in the Great Outside World.
Second, they simply didn't fly long enough - the Gump isn't that fast (we
know that he flies slower than the Sawhorse runs).
 
Me:
A line got lost in my comment about Baum's description of Ozma's lips. It
should have read:
"Oddly, he said her lips were 'tinted like a tourmaline,' which is pretty
ambiguous. Tourmalines come in a variety of colors, and in fact most I've
seen were bluish-green."
 
David Hulan

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 14:28:17 -0800
From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Tyler:
According to Fred Otto's short story "The Wogglebug's New Clothes," which 
appeared in the 1987 (I think) Oziana, the tailor's name is Stichwell J. 
Threadneedle.
 
Robin:
Apparently Baum had been familiar with a pinkish sort of tourmaline, 
since he made Tourmaline the Queen of the Pinkies in _Sky Island_.
-- 
Nathan Mulac DeHoff
lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:35:33 -0700
From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com>
Subject: Oz
 
BCF:
 
I notice that in _Land_ when our friends escape from the Emerald City and head to the
Tin Woodman's castle, Baum describes that the castle is near a small town. There is
Even a small illo of it in the chapter heading. I am at the office right now, so I can't
Refer to the book, and I forgot if Baum mentioned that the castle was in the town or
Next to it.
 
I am working under the assumption that at this time the Woodman was still living in
The old castle of the WWW. According to the non-FF _Tin Castle_, the tin castle is
Built soon after this story.
 
This town was not mentioned in WIZARD, but the arrival and departure was not under
Normal terms, so perhaps Baum did not need to mention it.
 
Can anybody remember if this town has been mentioned anywhere else in or out of the
FF? In Farmer's and Laumer's non-HACCurate writings, this town is referred to as Winkiezia.
Aaron, I believe, is also using this name in his magic machine series.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:21:14 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97
 
Nathan:
My feeling is that Nikidik and Pipt are two different people, but that Pipt
was the one who made the Powder of Life in all three books where it appears,
even though the way it works is different in each book. (In LAND there's the
Weaugh-Teaugh-Peaugh incantation, with gestures, much like the charm on the
Golden Cap. In ROAD Dyna has to wish her bear alive. In PATCHWORK GIRL the
powder just has to be sprinkled.) There's no evidence at all that Pipt has
the level of magical power that would let him create Nikidik's Wishing Pills,
and quite a bit that he doesn't. Those pills have to be somewhere in the 7-8
range on Dave's Scale of Magic, and Pipt doesn't seem to be higher than a 5
at best.
 
Robin:
I know that tourmaline comes in a red version, and I'm sure that's what Baum
was thinking of - but it's far from the only, or even the commonest, color of
tourmaline, which makes it, as I said, ambiguous. It's as if he said "the
color of a chess piece". Sure, many sets have red men - but they all have
white, and many have other colors for the non-white side (which is
conventionally called "black").
 
David Hulan

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:17:33 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Nikidik and Pipt:
It is possible, of course, that the two are related, although there is no
evidence for it one way or the other in or out of the FF. Currently, I
favor the theory that Nikidik was another Wizard who at one time traded with
Pipt and accidentally gave a box with wishing pills to him. Pipt never
noticed and gave the box to Mombi.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 97 00:34:57 
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
_LAND_-RELATED THOUGHTS:
 
Jellia: Let's see -- Today is Saturday, so Nikidik and Pipt must be
        one in the same today (They're two people on Mondays,
        Wednesdays and Fridays)... :)
 
I have a question concerning the Wogglebug: Could the "Highly Magnified"
Wogglebug not be the original Wogglebug, but instead a projected "shadow"
that came to life, fleshed out. and so then could step off the
screen, 'a la _The Purple Rose of Cairo_?
 
Aujah: Oh just *peachy*!  Now we have a "Two Wogglebugs" theory! :)
 
Wogglebug: Not at all! The backward arthropod from which I was projected
           was but an archaic insect, whereas *I* am "Highly Magnified"
           and "Thoroughly Educated"!
 
                             -- Dave

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:08:09 -0800 (PST)
From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe)
Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission
 
I note that in _Land_, the Wogglebug is not "the Wogglebug," but "the
Woggle-Bug."  By _Emerald City_, if not before, that had been changed to
its current form.
  
Dave, your two Wogglebug theory expressed in the 4/4 Digest is ingenious.
 If Professor Nowitall's "famous magnifying-glass" operates on strictly
optical principles, then the original, unmagnified Wogglebug should
still exist as an entity, separate from his highly magnified "twin."
  
Incidentally, when H.M. Wogglebug, T.E. says in your note, <Not at all!
The backward arthropod from which I was projected was but an archaic
insect, whereas *I* am "Highly Magnified" and "Thoroughly Educated"!> he
is overlooking the fact that the Wogglebug became educated in the three
years _before_ he was magnified, so his unmagnified counterpart is also T.E.

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:44:40 -0800 (PST)
From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe)
Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Addendum
 
Correction:  Dave's two Wogglebug theory is in the 4/5 Digest, not the
4/4.
 
And speaking of the 4/5 Digest and of Wogglebugs, David's clear
explanation of the technique of indicating hair color in black-and-white
drawings is nicely illustrated in _Land_, in Neill's  "A Highly Magnified
History" chapter drawing of the school children viewing the
just-magnified Wogglebug.

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 11:51:42 -0500 (EST)
From: DavidXOE at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97
 
Robin:
I think it essentially certain that Dr. Pipt and the crooked magician Mombi
got the Powder of Life from are one and the same, but much less so that the
latter is the same as Dr. Nikidik - for reasons expounded yesterday.
 
Ruth:
"Feminazis" is certainly a pejorative, and I haven't seen any feminists that
are an eighth as Nazi-like as people like Rush Limbaugh or Bob Dornan who use
that term freely. But there are some feminists - Andrea Dworkin is one name
that comes to mind, though I know there are others - who go beyond the point
of wanting things to be equal between the sexes to being actively anti-male.
And yes, I've read the writings of those women themselves, not just the
descriptions of them from their opponents. (Naomi Wolf's THE BEAUTY MYTH, for
instance, while making a lot of valid points, to me spoiled its argument by
attributing to conspiracy what is much more easily explained by the overall
flow of social trends.)
 
It seems necessary to explain why Jinjur's house was deserted when Woot and
companions arrived there in TIN WOODMAN if Jinjur was still married. Maybe,
since the stop was only for a few hours, his "journey" was nothing more than
a tramp to the nearest village for a loaf of bread, but he was gone for some
reason. And it seems odd that the Scarecrow, who claims to be a good friend
of Jinjur's, wouldn't remark on his absence as well as hers when they arrive
and there's nobody home. 
 
If Dr. Pipt just moved out of the Gillikin country, why did he leave some of
the Powder of Life behind for Dyna to find? I think his move had to be of the
highly urgent sort that left the impression that he had been killed, and that
required him to abandon all his possessions except what he was wearing - and
that the necessity arose while he was away from his home, or surely he'd have
taken his best magical invention with him. (There's probably a story in this,
if someone hasn't already written it.)
 
Gordon:
I've read THE RITUALS OF DINNER, but I'd forgotten that the introduction of
the four-tine fork was as late as mid-19th century. (I read it not long after
it appeared.) The fork itself was fairly recent (14-15th century time frame,
IIRC), and wasn't really practical for eating things like beans until much
later.
 
One minor addition, though - the legitimate use of the knife, in etiquette
books of a century ago, wasn't entirely limited to cutting. It was also
correctly used for spreading butter, jam, pate, and the like (although in
really fancy establishments there were special knives for these purposes).
However, it should never enter the mouth, and shouldn't be used to push food
around either.
 
Incidentally, since the Wizard probably left America in the1840s, he might
have missed the "fork revolution" . An interesting question is why Glinda and
her spies thought it was odd that he ate beans with a knife - had the "fork
revolution" started in Oz?
 
Craig:
I'm not sure that blondes were considered more beautiful in 1904. I know the
"Gibson girls" were considered the epitome of female beauty at roughly that
time, and they were almost invariably dark-haired.
 
In any case, red poppies would look a lot better on a brunette, if Neill
insisted on the poppies (which, IIRC, are never mentioned in the text of any
FF book).
 
Dave:
It must be pointed out that the Thorough Education that the Woggle-bug got
was acquired when he was a tiny bug; the High Magnification came later. But
is there still a tiny bug, somewhere in or around Professor Nowitall's
schoolhouse, with a Thorough Education? Normally when something is projected
onto a screen, the original is unaffected...
 
David Hulan

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 22:42:25 -0500
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Robin:
I believe that the evidence you mentioned is in _Road_. The Tin Woodman
mentions that the inventor of the powder of life was a crooked sorcerer who
fell off a precipice and was killed. Depsite this, the crooked magician who
makes the Powder of Life shows up alive and well two books later.
 
This has caused some people to speculate that Pipt and Nikidik are the same
person. Nikidik faked his own death, moved to the Blue Forest of the Munchkin
country, and changed his name.
 
Columbo: Oh, There is just one more thing...
 
If Pipt and Nikidik were the same person, then Pipt would also be the one
who invented the wishing pills. Since these are extremely powerful, it seems
reasonable to assume that Pipt would have some around his house and he could
have used those to disenchant Margolotte and Unc Nunkie immediately instead
of sending Ojo off on a trip from which he would probably never return. He
never even mentioned them.
 
This leads me to beleive that Pipt did not use or mention the pills because
he never knew about them. As for the seeming amazing coincidence about the
crooked sorcerer dying, perhaps the Tin Woodman was referring to Pipt after
all, who did fake his death for some reason, only to turn up later. Or it's
posible that Pipt and Nikidik knew each other, went on an adventure, and
met up with an accident that crippled them both.
 
The possibilities for new Oz books are endless here...
 
David:
I once theorized that the early versions of Pipt's Powder of Life was not
quite up to snuff, and so needed to incantation to help it along. Later, when
Pipt refined his technique. the powder was more powerful and did not need the
extra magic.
 
--Tyler Jones

L. Frank Baum, John R. Neill

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:03:41 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
 
Tyler Jones: The Dr. Nikidik of the wishing pills would seem to be
definitely the same person as the crooked magician who made the
Powder of Life -- Tip recognizes Dr. Nikidik as the name of the
crooked magician.  (As to why he didn't use them in "Patchwork Girl"
-- well, for one thing, not knowing the Wogglebug, he may have
thought they were indigestible and therefore worthless, and that may
have been why he packed them away in the first place and evidently
forgot about them.  Or perhaps the wishes did not work against other
magic.)  By the way, the article about the crooked magician that you
and I were referring to earlier was "The Enigma of Dr. Pipt," by Lee A.
Speth, in the "Bugle" back in 1965, and reprinted in the 65/66 "Best of
the Baum Bugle."
 
Earl Abbe: I suspect that Professor Nowitall's "famous
magnifying-glass" did not operate "on strictly optical principles.  It
sounds more like something that deserved the old name of "magic
lantern."
 
Craig Noble: Neill's decision not to draw Dorothy with the kind of
light-brown-hair shading Neill used probably grew out of a desire not
to have to draw lots of fine lines on a character who was obviously
going to be getting used regularly, and his choice of making her
fair-haired rather than dark-haired probably came from a feeling that
light-brown is closer to blonde than to dark-brown.  Having chosen
"white" for Dorothy's hair in the opening chapters of "Ozma," by default
that made Ozma herself "black."  (He may have been influenced
subconsciously by the fact that he knew Tip was Ozma, and he'd
drawn Tip as black-haired.  Baum's single reference to Ozma as
blonde, and Neill's single drawing of her as blonde evidently hadn't
sunk into his memory to compare with all those black-haired
drawings.)
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:25:01 -0700
From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Earl:
Interesting point. The key, of course, is whether Professor Nowitall's 
Device is purely an "opticalizer" or does it actually magnify the source?
This is similar to the discussion about Tip/Ozma.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:40:44 -0500 (EST)
From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97
 
I thought Woggebug was actually transported up to the screen in a
magnified form by some magical means, since no mention is made of his
counterpart still in the room.
Scott

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 23:00:05 -0400
From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97
 
 
>David: Tourmaline comes in a red variety (Rubellite). Perhaps that's what 
Baum was thinking.<
 
It's possible that was the only type of tourmaline Baum had ever seen and
he assumed all tourmalines were red.
 
Melody Grandy

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 23:00:26 -0400
From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97
 
Tyler: 
>I am working under the assumption that at this time the Woodman was still living in
The old castle of the WWW. According to the non-FF _Tin Castle_, the tin castle is
Built soon after this story.<
 
In (I think) Road to Oz, the Tin Woodman says he had his new tin castle
built because the WWW's (stone?) castle was damp and likely to rust him.
 
Melody Grandy

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 00:23:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: H.M. Wogglebug, T.E., of Oz
 
2) Dave, I could see H.M. Wogglebug, T.E. being akin to straw pulled from
a picture by Jinjur, though I find myself wondering whether 'real'
wogglebugs are intelligent at all.  Insects don't seem to be any smarter
in Oz than they are in this world.  (Prof. Wogglebug's memory of events
before his magnification poses no difficulty; other vivified beings, such
as the Scarecrow, Benny, Crunch, and Humpy, remember things that happened
to them before they came to life.)  On the other hand, Prof. Wogglebug
looks more like a vertebrate than an insect (noncompound eyes, four limbs,
no exoskeleton), so wogglebugs might just be tiny mammals, which would be
naturally intelligent in Oz.
 
Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman                
adelman at ymail.yu.edu         North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 97 01:25:08
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
 
TODAY'S BCF QUESTION:
One thing about _Land_ is that it develops Jellia's character, portraying
her as wonderfully sassy and mischievous!...My question is, why was this not
carried through in subsequent books...Or are there some which I haven't read
in which she is depicted as she was in _Land_?
 
Jellia: Not that *I* remember...I've had to wait for *you* Dave to portray
        me as I am! :) :)
 
                             -- Dave

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 09:38:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: oz digest
 
Earl Abbe: I misplaced a quote mark in my comment yesterday, and it
came out sounding confusing, so I'll repeat that I suspect that
Professor Nowitall's "famous magnifying-glass" did not operate "on
strictly optical principles."  It sounds more like something that
deserved the old name of "magic lantern.
 
Dave Hardenbrook: Jellia in Thompson's "Ozoplaning" is not
mischievous, but is sassy -- in fact, is the story's heroine.
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:37:19 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97
 
Ruth:
It's true that Tip claims to remember that Mombi had said that Nikidik
was the name of the crooked magician she had visited, but in fact Mombi
never said any such thing. I think Tip was just assuming that the two
magicians were the same.
 
Actually, there are three Neill pictures of Ozma as a blonde in LAND -
pages 277, 278, and 287 in the BoW edition. There are a few others
through the FF where her hair looks relatively light rather than its
usual black, but I doubt we should draw any major inferences from this.
(For instance, there's the picture of her near the end of TIK-TOK, where
she and Dorothy and Betsy are watching Hank and the Sawhorse "shaking
hands". All three of them seem to have similarly-colored hair. That's
one of the few illos of Ozma without poppies, too.)
 
 
David Hulan (though now that my E-mail address is my name, I might not
need to sign every time)

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 08:54:52 -0700
From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Pipt/Nikidik:
Is is reasonable to suppose that Pipt invented the pills, thought they
were useless, and hid them away. Overall, I suppose, the evidence seems
to lean in the direction of them both being the same, but I'll wait until
someone writes a story about this with a good explanation.
 
Aaron, his counterpart may not have been noticed. Clearly, the Wogglebug believes
himself to be one and only, but the little one may still be there. I still
lean to the theory that the Wogglebug was actaully moved to the screen,
since it is less likely that he could have stepped off the screen if he
was only an image.
 
Jellia:
Surely the most popular of the minor characters in the FF. She played a
sizeable role in _Ozoplaning_, but I can't remember much about how she
was portrayed.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 22:55:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: _Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz_
 
2) Dave, Jellia Jamb gets a significant role in _Ozoplaning with the
Wizard of Oz_ (which strangely gets worse with each rereading). 
Interestingly enough, Nick Chopper's character gets strangely butchered... 
 
 
Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman
adelman at ymail.yu.edu         North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 23:18:21 -0700
From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Ruth:
If Mombi said that she traded with Nikidik, this does not necessarily 
mean that she actually did.  After all, the WWN is not exactly known for 
her honesty.  _Wooglet in Oz_ suggests that Nikidik traded the pills to 
Pipt, who then traded these and the Powder of Life to Mombi, using the 
name of Nikidik out of fear.  Chris Dulabone's _Dagmar in Oz_ suggests 
that Nikidik obtained the Powder of Life from Pipt, and traded it to 
Mombi.  Later, Mombi went directly to Pipt for more powder.
-- 
Nathan Mulac DeHoff
lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com

Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 10:58:07 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97
 
Dave:
Have you read OZOPLANING yet? Jellia has a major role in that book, and
although it's not a very good book, she definitely has a sprightly
personality. It's the only FF book where she has a major role (even more
than in LAND, where she really just does a couple of cameos).
 
David Hulan

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:44:55 -0500
From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
On the Woggle-Bug's magnified existence:
I agree with Ruth Berman that the projecting device was probably some kind
of variation of the magic latern.  What fascinates me about the Woggle-Bug's
story is the way the projected image assumes a life of its own.  A
representation that comes to life:  isn't this exactly what happens when we
read fiction?  In this sense, the original bug, unmagnified but thoroughly
educated, would be analogous to the book that awaits our reading--our
imaginative projection--in order to be fully realized.
 
--Gordon Birrell

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:03:14 -0500 (EST)
From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-10-07
 
Mombi never said she got the powder of life from Nikidik, Tip just guessed
that the two were one and the same.  I believe Baum said she visited a
crooked magician.  No one ever said this was Nikidik except Tip, who
probably would not know.  IIRC, Ozma was taken in by Mombi, and she
transformed him into Tip.
Scott

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:07:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
David Hulan: On Tip's comment that Mombi said Nikadik was the
name of the crooked magician she got the powder of life from -- I
don't think your suggestion (that he must have mis-remembered,
because the story doesn't report that Mombi said any such thing) is
valid.  She might have said it when he heard it, but the story didn't
report it, for instance, when she was mumbling to herself while
brewing the petrifaction potion, or before she left on to make her visit.
On the same topic, Nathan De Hoff suggests that Mombi might have
been lying in saying that Nikadik was the crooked magician's name,
but that strikes me me as improbable.  She has no particular reason to
lie about it, and it seems unlikely that just by coincidence she would
give a false name for her supplier and hit on the name that actually
was (unbeknowst to her) the name of the supplier of the goods.  It still
seems obvious to me that Nikadik and Pipt and the otherwise
unnamed "Land" crooked magician are all the same person, and likely
that his full name is Nikadik Pipt.
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:38:40 -0500 (EST)
From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-11-97
 
When Tip said he thought the magician was Nikidik, he did not seem
absolutely certain.  He may have only heard the name a few times and not
remembered it, and thought Nikidik sounded right.  We've all had this kind
of thing happen before in our own memories, or am I weird?
Scott

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 06:58:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN <ADELMANB at adelvx.citadel.edu>
Subject: My Two Cents in Oz
 
On the subject of Jinjur (finally, we get to Oz), my take has been that while
Baum had nothing wrong with women as rulers, they had to be the right women.
Jinjur, having the Emerald City looted and more interests on chocolate or
romance novels, was probably not doing a good job of ruling, especially 
compared to Glinda and Ozma.

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:20:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-13-97
 
BCF: Anyone ever notice how Glinda  can't figure out how to get into the 
E.City when camped outside the walls? The Scarecrow has to figure out a 
solution for her. Baum certainly hadn't worked out her character too 
fully at that point, unless we are to believe that her knowledge of magic 
increased in a geometric progression between LAND and, say, ROAD.  
--Robin Olderman

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:36:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: JOdel at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Since I was out of the loop during the Land discusion, I am probably going to be repeating
ovservations made by others.
 
Land was one of the half-dozen Oz books which I inhereted from Ma and her siblings. It was physically
one of the older ones -- although not a first edition -- and the one in the best condition. From this
I must deduce that Ma and her sibs enjoyed it no better than I did. Somehow I could never work up much
enthusiasm for Land. As a child, I thought this was due to the absence of Dorothy. Many other children
seem to have come to this conclusion as well, as the letters to Baum at the time no doubt attested.
The next time he went to Oz, he brought Dorothy with him. 
 
Rereading it, (in e-text version without the pleasant distraction of the illustrations) I have drawn a
quite diffferent conclusion. Ghod, but is this a talky book! And the talk is distincly lame. And, apart
from Tip, the characters are all grotesques. And there are too many of them. This book ought to be entitled
"Five Freaks and a Trannie".
 
Whoever commented that Baum wrote this one with the stage in mind was dead on. It reads like several long
vaudville skits strung together. And, sorry, but most of them are decidedly uninspired. Baum was a fine
storyteller, He was not a fine playwright.
 
The ugly stereotype of feminism embodied by General Jinjur and her rebel girls (girls, mind you -- not
women), somehow this depiction is so over the top that one tends to lose sight of the fact that this
rebellion, which succeeded on account of its double weapons of surprise, and its shameless abuse of the
traditional, protected status accorded to women, was put down by a female professional army and replaced
by a female-headed, and female advised legitimate government. Glinda clearly had no intention of supporting
any claim Tip might have been said to have had to the throne unless he agreed to resume a female identity,
despite the fact that no one could have argued that merely being in male form would have impared his
ability to rule. 
 
In fact, a treatise on the political history of Ozzian succession from a gender standpoint could be
illuminating, or at least entertaining, if someone wanted to run with it. It also provides a not
overwhelmingly flattering mirror of the popular history U.S. intervention in foreign affairs, however
much one may choose to dress it up in pink ribbons. And Land certainly does dress it up in pink ribbons.
When it is not attempting to entertain us with poor theater, this has also got to be one of the most
political books in the FF.
 
Let us say that in a distant third-world city-state, the traditional,
legitimate, (male-headed) monarchy was, generations ago overthrown by an evil, oppressive (female)
confederation, which is in turn was intimidated into withdrawal by a (male) charlatan, who rules for
a normal lifetime and designates up a puppet, or (literally!) straw man regime to replace him. This
puppet regime, due to its lack of real authority, is fairly easily overthrown by an immaturely-led
(female-supported) uprising, focused upon petty personal grievance and underpinned by abstract
concepts of little practical relevance, and which, once established, immediately calls on the last
remnant of the original evil (female) confederation to support it and consolidate its power. This highly
illigitimate regime rapidly decends into tryany, injustice and general spitefulness in what is a virtually
textbook illustration of "victim" thinking gone sour. ("I have been oppressed, I have
the right to oppress my oppressors even worse, in revenge. I have the right to be unstintingly given
anything I want in return for having survived their oppression.")
 
Being wholey dependent upon a centralized authority with a purely ceremonial support mechanism, it is
soon realized by the deposed straw man regime that they have no means to overthrow the usurper, whose
abuses have already caused much public unrest, and plundered the conquered territory. After an abortive
attempt to regain its power, although the deposed regime has the option of bowing out of the public theater
and living comfortably in exile, in a friendly neighboring tin-pot province, its moral outrage at the
corruption and injustice being perpetrated by its conquerer, as well as a suspicion that the conquerer may
have future designs upon its refuge, leads it to throw itself upon the mercies of a (female-headed and
sustained) superpower with unquestioned military superiority, and with stories of the usurper's abuses,
attempts to enlist its help in restoring it to power. 
 
The superpower, recognizing that the puppet is incapable of retaining its position, even if restored, and
no legitimate claim to the throne anyway, declines to do this. If it is to overthrow the current government
it will establish a replacement government of its own choosing, and it will decide what consitutes
legitimacy, thank you very much. 
 
After a bit of research, this (female) superpower discovers the existance of a possible (female) claimant
with enough acceptable trappings of legimatcy to be plausible, and agrees to restore this claimant to the
throne if the person can be found. Since the only source of accurate information as to the fate of this
claimant is deep in the councils of the revolutionary forces the superpower marches in force to intimidate
the new government into turning over this person. It sweetens the deal by promising not to oppose the
government's leader. What it intends to do about the situation once the "legitimate" claimant
is found is never specified. One suspects that should Jinjur prove recalcitrant, spies, dirty tricks and
arming the discontented segments of the subject population may have had something to do with it. 
 
In the event, the revolutionary leader attempts to bargain, attempts to
cheat, and looses out. The counselor is captured, confesses and is forced to comply with the superpower's
demands. Once the claimant is found and groomed for sucession, the revolutionary leader is conveniently
guided into making a direct act of hostility towards the superpower which handily swoops in, and captures
her, destroys her regime and places its own claimant upon the throne, and steps back into the roll of
chief "advisor". In perpetuity. And they all lived hapily ever after.
 
Is anything wrong with this picture?

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:19:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
Scott Hutchins: Tip's memory could presumably be misleading him when he says that Nikidik
was the name of the crooked magician, but what reason is there to think so?  Dr. Pipt's failure
to use wishing pills when Margolotte and Unk Nunkie are petrified is a reason, but not a strong
one; as I've commented before, he might have viewed the wishing pills as useless when he found
they were indigestible (which is perhaps why he threw them out in the first place), or the wishing
pills might have been ineffective against other magic.  Making up someone other than the
crooked magician to be Nikidik is a way of explaining why the crooked magician later has a
different name, but there isn't much improvement between postulating that there were two
crooked magicians with Powders of Life and postulating that there were two magicians packing
the contents of the Powder of Life/wishing pill canister.  Either way, what is obviously meant to
be one character gets split into two.  Lee Speth's idea from some years back that Nikidik
changed his name to Pipt in order to go into hiding is certainly possible, but it's even simpler to
suppose that the crooked magician's full name was Nikidik Pipt.  Incidentally, although Mombi
and Pipt were no doubt capable of working out petrifaction spells independently, and the later
spell (if considered the same as the earlier) would have to have undergone some R&D in the
years between to explain the differences in how they worked -- I wonder if Baum meant Pipt's
liquid of petrifaction to recall the crooked magician's previous dealings with Mombi, and to imply
that one of them bought it from the other.

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:19:34 -0400
From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97
 
Although I agree with the person who said that some of the writing in "Land
of Oz" seems meant for a vaudeville stage, it is my favorite Oz book. Maybe
because it *is* meant to be funny. The Children's Theater production of
"Land" is extremely good--and it was the Baum lines (like Tip's "A marble
statue is a hard thing to be!) that got the most laughs from the live
audience. But the stage production also added funny lines of its own. Baum
tells us Tip was not as respectful to Mombi as he ought to have been--and
the stage production SHOWS how disrespectful Tip was.
 
Mombi: Remember, an idle mind is the Devil's playground!
Tip: *You* ought to know!
 
        Zim, in his 3000+ years of life, agrees with Jinjur that generally
"a throne belongs to whomever can take it." That's probably why Baum tried
to make Ozma a more legitimate ruler by changing her from an ordinary
little girl princess to a  fairy princess in the later Oz books. Rather as
the Emperors of Japan tried to justify their rule by claiming they were
descended from the sun goddess Amaterasu.
 
        Glinda the "Superior Power" was a bit reluctant to undertake the
overthrow of Jinjur at first--   Glinda: "What right have I to oppose
Jinjur or interfere with her?" This feeling may have also made her hesitate
to take action against the Wicked Witches of East and West--perhaps Glinda
feared that conquering them would make her no better than they were. 
 
        Robin:
 
        Good point that Glinda couldn't think of a way over the E.C. wall
even though she had flown in the Gump herself. She probably didn't have her
bird-drawn chariot at the time, either. Then again, perhaps she let the
Scarecrow suggest it out of respect--because the Gump "belonged" more to
him and his party than to her.  
 
Melody Grandy

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:41:42 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97
 
Joyce:
LAND  was never very high on my list of favorite Oz books (though it was
somewhere around the middle). But I really like your reading of it,
which is right on target as far as I can see. Of course, we have to bear
in mind that Glinda really _is_ a Benevolent Tyrant, which to a
considerable degree mitigates her hegemonic actions. But from the
standpoint of someone whose political opinions were formed in the
Sixties, yeah, you got it.
 
David Hulan

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:28:12 -0400
From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz
 
Barry:
I agree with your observation. While Baum's Oz was clearly a land in which
women had the (non-cowardly) lion's share of power, he did not generalize.
In other words, all women rulers were not presented at the height of
goodness or badness. While you had the bad eggs like Jinjur and Coo-Ee-Oh,
you also had the good ones, such as Ozma, Glinda and (in a salute to Dave's
book), the three Adepts, whatever their names are :-)
 
JoDel:
Very interesting treatise. In some ways, it is similar to an article in
the BUGLE comparing the events in _Ozma of Oz_ to the same things. However,
in this case, Ozma really was the true heir to the throne and her true form
was that of a girl. Of course, her "true" true form is a fairy.
 
--Tyler Jones

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:36:46 -0700
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97
 
>JOdel [re: Land of Oz]
>
> This book ought to be entitled "Five Freaks and a Trannie".
> 
What is a Trannie?
 
> Baum was a fine storyteller, He was not a fine playwright.
> 
Baum had his greatest financial success with the play THE WIZARD OF OZ,
which was completely rewritten after his own adaptation.  He was trying
to duplicate its success in THE WOGGLE-BUG which was a total failure,
but was the "evil twin" of THE LAND OF OZ.  I have read the script of
THE MAID OF ARRAN (his successful play from the 1870s) and it confirms
the fact that he was not a fine playwright.  
 
BTW:  I really liked your political analysis of LAND!
 
 
Steve T.

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:07:53 -0400
From: Richard Bauman <RBauman at compuserve.com>
Subject: Today's Oz Growls
 
Ah Robin, I think Glinda demonstrated the essence of good management.  It
is always better to let those "under" you find solutions on their own if
they are acceptable.  If the Scarecrow hadn't come up with one she would
have stepped in with her own. 
 
JOdel - whoever you are? - For such a "talky" and "lame" book, it sure
exercised you.  I'm sure that somewhere LFB is pleased.  Every once in a
while we have to remember that this is just some guy banging out a kid's
story to make a living.  He is not writing "War and Peace."  
 
Cheerfully, Bear  (:<)

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:33:24 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97
 
Bear:
Certainly Baum was just "banging out a kids' book to earn a living," but
if we're going to discuss it I think we should take it seriously. If we
aren't, then there's no point in the discussion. I liked Joyce's
exposition, even if I didn't agree with all of it. (Obviously THE LAND
OF OZ isn't WAR AND PEACE - it's far more readable!)
 
David Hulan

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:41:20 -0500
From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Bear:
>JOdel - whoever you are? - For such a "talky" and "lame" book, it sure
>exercised you.  I'm sure that somewhere LFB is pleased.  Every once in a
>while we have to remember that this is just some guy banging out a kid's
>story to make a living.  He is not writing "War and Peace." 
 
The kind of analysis that Joyce is undertaking ("ideological interrogation
of the text" is the current designation for this sort of analysis) is not
concerned with questions of quality, or whether the text in question
represents high art or low art, or whether the writer was following his/her
muse or merely "banging out a kid's story".  Any text may be considered
revelatory of ideological positions.
 
I myself thought this was an extremely astute and ingenious analysis.  It is
certainly preferable in every way to the kind of reductionist reading that,
say, Henry M. Littlefield imposed on _The Wonderful Wizard_.  Still, as much
as I would like to be totally persuaded by Joyce's interpretation, I have
some serious misgivings.  First of all, are we really justified in viewing
the situation of the Emerald City as parallel to a "third-world city-state"?
The typical third-world nation is characterized by (or, for political
purposes, is perceived as being characterized by) marginality, neediness,
backwardness, and limited economic strength or diversity.  The Emerald City,
on the other hand, enjoys a position of incontestable centrality within
Baum's fictional world.  It is not Glinda's situation as a "superpower" that
is threatened by Jinjur's insurrection but more fundamentally the integrity
of all of Oz.  For that matter, the typical third-world revolution that
requires an interventionist response on the part of a superpower is
conducted in the name of national independence and self-determination, with
the goal of ending economic exploitation at the hands of the superpower.
Jinjur's army of girls may be in some sense a threat to Glinda's matriarchal
authority, but Glinda surely doesn't "need" the stability of the Emerald
City in the same way that the U.S. needs stability in the Middle East to
safeguard its economic interests.  Finally, I don't think that most
Americans would identify, even subliminally, our national superpower status
with Glinda, whose "advisory" position to Ozma is genuinely subservient
(does Glinda *ever* oppose or question Ozma's authority?) and certainly not
a cover for a network of economic/political/military control mechanisms.
 
About the "talkiness" of _Land_:  what struck me is that there is not only a
lot of talk in this novel, but so much of the talk is about *language*:
problems of translation, local dialects, high-flown language vs. standard
speech, questions of appropriateness of word play.  It was precisely at the
time _Land_ was written that Saussure and Pierce were establishing the
arbitrariness of linguistic signs and thereby founding modern semiotics, and
Hofmannsthal's "Letter of Lord Chandos," the classical statement of the
unreliability of language, was also written within a year or two of _Land_.
I'm not arguing that Baum was familiar with any of this, but his book
suggests that the questioning of the stability of language was generally in
the air at that time and wasn't merely a concern of remote intellectuals and
philosophers.
 
--Gordon Birrell

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:10:30 -0400
From: Richard Bauman <RBauman at compuserve.com>
Subject: Today's Oz Growls
 
David - Baum's work is certainly entitled to be taken seriously and I do. 
I do think we need to keep it in context however, which was my point.  If
Baum was the limit of your literary appetite I would sorrow for you.  I
know that is not the case.   In addition, I found "War and Peace" quite
readable.  
 
Gordon - Thank you for the further enlightenment regarding  >"ideological
interrogation of the text"  I will politely reserve my opinion of this
activity.  
 
Regards, Bear

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:29:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: JOdel at aol.com
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Actually, the "'60s" (actually more '70s) political reading of LAND was more
than half satirical, but it does tend to explain why some europeans regard
the Oz books as such quintessentially American stories. They really do seem
to be a distilation of how America liked to regard itself at the time they
were written. Particularly Baum's version. Bumptious patriotism which seems
more than a little naive today.
 
S. J. Teller
A Tranie is a transexual. It wasn't a pejoritive term, the last I knew.
(Given time will probably become one though. Such terms always seem to.)

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:29:27 -0700
From: ozbot <ozbot at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest
 
Replying for a couple days past-- (it's been busy!)
 
There seems to be a good case to be made that the Emerald City was not
completely built by the time Dorothy first arrived--the case in point are
those green glasses everyone was forced to wear that obviously created a
false sense of splendor.  However, by the time of LAND, the Scarecrow was
albe to oversee the final production of the Emerald City, with its true
splendor evident.  
 
Maybe, the Scarecrow pushed (at least some of the women) too hard, creating
a seed of discontent that would allow the women of Oz a reason to revolt,
or at the very least, allow Jinjur to fabricate a reason to revolt.
 
Danny

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: JOdel at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest
 
BTW, The point that Gordon made about most of the "talk" in Land being talk
about language is one that I hadn't caught. Interesting! And what's more,
IIRC, Land is the last book that Baum wrote about Oz in which all of the
characters spoke standard english. Afterwards there were almost invariably
characters who spoke in dialect, or with some form of speech impediment
(little American girls, in particular, seem suddenly to have aquired a
diction of such cloying coyness that you have difficulty not imagining them
also having high squeeky voices and a tendency to bat their eyelashes. Talk
about camp...)

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:47:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97 (fwd)
 
Gordon: No, Glinda certainly doesn't need the Emerald City or central 
gov't. or anything like it.  She's pretty self-sufficient. And no, she 
DOESn't ever go against Ozma's wishes and is clearly subservient to her. 
This is why my MoPPET states that her function is to help Ozma...teach, 
protect, etc. Someone sent Glinda to Oz for that purpose, and once she 
realized that Ozma was not permanently lost to her, she became active. I 
note that she didn't give a dip about who was ruling Oz until she thought 
she might be able to get Ozma back and on the throne.
 
                        --Robin

Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:47:17 -0700
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-19-97
 
FWIW:
 
James Thurber, in his essay "The Wizard of Chittenango" thought only the
first two of the Oz books were any good.  He particularly hated Unc
Nunkie.
 
Steve T.

Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:18:49 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-17-97
 
Gordon:
Glinda doesn't, IIRC, ever question or oppose Ozma's _authority_, but
she occasionally questions her judgment. E.g., in GLINDA she wishes Ozma
wouldn't get involved in the Skeezer-Flathead dispute, and she has
serious misgivings about her taking Dorothy with her.
 
David Hulan

Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:22:11 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-19-97
 
Danny:
I question whether the Scarecrow did any major amount of new
construction or even decoration in the Emerald City. Certainly there's
no direct statement that he did, and since he's really a rather boastful
individual, I'd have expected him to say something about it somewhere
along the line if it were the case. The green glasses, after all, didn't
make the city appear any more splendid; they just made it appear green.
And if you recall, the green glasses continued in use through the
Scarecrow's reign; it was apparently Jinjur who ended the custom, and it
was never revived.
 
I don't  think the Scarecrow actually ruled for very long. It's true he
tells the Wizard in DOTWIZ that he ruled "quite awhile", but it's
reasonable that a being who never eats or sleeps might have a rather
distorted time sense. I personally doubt that the Scarecrow's reign
lasted more than a year. If the incompetence he shows in LAND is
typical, he would only last as long as it took someone else to get the
idea that ruling Oz might be fun, and I don't think that even in Oz (at
least in pre-Ozma days, when there was a money economy along with
disease and probably aging and death) that would take very long.
 
Joyce:
Dorothy's diction was terrible in the four books from OZMA through
EMERALD CITY, but it wasn't bad after that, and neither Trot nor Betsy
ever really exhibited poor diction as a routine thing, though there were
occasional slips. Uncle Henry and Aunt Em spoke a very rural dialect in
EC (which is the only book where they speak much), and Cap'n Bill always
used a sort of nautical dialect, but they're the only adult Baum
characters I can think of who didn't speak fairly standard English.
 
David Hulan

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:33:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe)
Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission
 
_Land_ Observation:
Tip and Mombi live in a village. If one looks at the three exterior
scenes in the first two chapters of _Land_, each picture shows five of
the hemispherical Ozian houses.  The two pictures in the second chapter have
very similar points of view.  In "Tip Stood the Figure Up and
Admired It.," there are three houses on the left side of the road and
two on the right.  But in "Old Mombi Danced Around Him" there are
(largely obscured) two houses on the left side and three on the right.
This would imply at least six houses, three on each side of the road --
a little village by themselves alone.
 
This conclusion is also supported in the text, where it is stated that
"Mombi's curious magic often frightened her neighbors, and they treated
her shyly, yet respectfully"...  So she and Tip did indeed have
neighbors.
 
However, it is stated in the first chapter that Tip has no playmates.
Why should that be if he lives in a village?  The village children may
shy away from Mombi, but I doubt that this would prevent the
rambunctious Tip from finding playmates, if there were any children
there to find.  I think that there were no other children and that this
is due to the anti-aging spell taking effect.  A necessary effect of
such a spell would be to greatly slow or zero the birth rate.
Otherwise, a population explosion would ruin the land the magic that was
supposed to preserve.
 
Earl Abbe

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:48:47 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97
 
Steve:
I'm aware that Thurber only liked the first two Oz books, but I can't
think why Unc Nunkie would have offended him so much. I don't think he
had twenty words in the whole series up to OJO. And he wasn't onstage in
animate form for more than about four chapters.
 
Earl:
It's true that the anti-aging spell would have to have the corollary of
a low-to-zero birth rate, but that shouldn't affect the presence of
children in a village, assuming that Mombi and Tip lived in a village.
(I don't think you can put any weight on the fact that Neill shows
houses in some of the illustrations; Neill was notorious for
contradicting the text. And "neighbors", in a rural context, could
easily refer to people living a mile or more away. Even if they had
children they, along with Tip, were probably busy enough with farm
chores that they didn't have time to go play with someone living that
far away.) The anti-aging spell didn't, according to Baum, just work on
adults - it stopped children from becoming adults.
 
David Hulan

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:45:04 -0500 (EST)
From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-21-97
 
Earl, my assumption as to the village in _Land_ was that Tip and Mombi
live on the outskirts of town, and no one goes anywhere near them.
Perhaps no one in the village has kids Tip's age, or they shun him, with
good reason, he does live with a witch.
 
Scott

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:42:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe)
Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission
 
Ignoring the illustrations:
In the 4/22 Digest, David Hulan says <I don't think you can put any
weight on the fact that Neill shows houses in some of the illustrations;
Neill was notorious for contradicting the text.>
  
Yes, Neill's illustrations do, at times, contradict the text.  A _Land_
example of this is in the chapter, "Mr. H.M. Woggle-Bug, T.E."  The
picture labeled "The Tin Woodman Skillfully Caught the Pumpkin" shows
the Wogglebug falling off the Sawhorse as the horse's leg breaks.  But
in the text, the Wogglebug does not join the group until a couple
minutes after the accident.
  
However, these occasional lapses do not mean that Neill's images should
be arbitrarily dismissed.  Of all of the authors and illustrators
associated with the Oz canon, John R. Neill is the most represented. 
Our perceptions of Oz have been greatly influenced by this most prolific
of Royal Artists.
  
Additionally, Neill's three pictures of the same group of houses by the
road near Mombi's home are _not_ contradicted by the text.  Although
Baum's mention of the Mombi's neighbors could -- in a rural context --
include people living a mile away, it can also mean folk living just
down the road.  The text does say that Mombi had gone to a village a
two-day round trip away to buy groceries.  If there was a village (and
presumably groceries) right by her home, why travel two days?  To get
magic supplies, which she did.  She was engaged in illegal activity and
the grocery tale was just her cover story.
 
In the absence of any contradiction with the text, I believe that we
should accept Neill's illustrations as they are presented.
 
Anti-Aging Spell & Children:
Also in the 4/22 Digest, David points out that <The anti-aging spell ...
according to Baum ... stopped children from becoming adults.>
 
Yes, Baum did state this and evoked the horrible image of helpless babies
forever staying helpless babies.  Thankfully, this was refined later to
make aging a voluntary thing, with the individual deciding on his
birthday whether or not to age a year in the following calendar year. 
One would presume that a very young child's parents or guardians would
help to make this decision for him.
 
In a rural environmen,t children have considerable value as farm
laborers.  At the inception of the anti-aging spell everyone would be
still thinking along those lines and desire their children to grow up a
fast as possible.  Therefor, that generation of children would age as
usual.  It would only be after noticing there weren't many new births
that people would start to want these few remaining children to slow
down their aging, so that life would not be without the joy and beauty
of children.
 
Tip's case would be different, however.  Mombi would not want Tip to grow
up.  The witch would prefer to keep him a young boy, in which state he
would be much more manageable.
 
Tip's birth cohort has grow up but Tip has not and there have been very
few new births.  That is why Tip has no playmates.
  
Earl Abbe

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:46:44 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97
 
Earl:
I defer to Neill as far as his depictions of individual characters are
concerned, but because of the numerous inconsistencies between his
illustrations and the text, I give the specific composition of his
illustrations no weight at all as authority, even if they don't
contradict the text. However, YMMV.
 
You are saying, then, that Baum was simply wrong in his statement in TIN
WOODMAN that babies stayed babies, etc.? And that the change noted in
KABUMPO (I think that was the first time) wasn't a later modification of
the spell, but how it worked from the beginning?
 
David Hulan

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:19:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeremy Steadman <jsteadman at loki.berry.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-24-97
 
Re Tip and Anti-Aging:
Earl Abbe says that parents generally "help make that decision for 
them" (i.e., for babies, when to grow up).  Tip was hardly an infant, 
and even if he was when Mombi first got her claws on him, it seems to 
me that he would gain enough autonomy at the age at which we first 
meet him to make his own decisions.  Does this mean that he himself 
wanted to remain a child?  A child dominated by Mombi?!  Or does this 
mean that once an adult starts a child aging, the adult has control 
over the child for the remainder of his/her life?  Or did Mombi stop 
his growth entirely, in which case we would have to attribute more 
power to her than before?  
 
It seems more reasonable to me to set up a slow-aging theory, in 
which age is not stopped but rather slowed to an almost imperceptible 
rate.  Of course, in that case, lots of book possibilities open 
up--ones set in the far future, when Dorothy is a teenager or even an 
adult, for example . . .
 
See!  I can be serious at times!  (Not often enough, perhaps . . .)
 
--Jeremy Steadman, Ozologist at Large (and Small)

Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:53:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: Strange Aging in Oz
 
2) A last comment on _The Land of Oz_:  Why is it named _The Land of Oz_
or more properly _The Marvelous Land of Oz_?  I know that Baum originally
wanted to name it _The Further Adventures of the Scarecrow and Tin
Woodman_ but R&B (or is it R&L?) wanted 'Oz' in the title, but why give
the book such a generic title.  Following _Wizard_, one might expect _The
Scarecrow King of Oz_, _The General of Oz_, or _The Northern Witch of
Oz_.  The Laumerian title _An Orphan in Oz_ would also would nicely.  Any
info on the title choice?
 
Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman
adelman at ymail.yu.edu         North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire

Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 08:24:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe)
Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Children & the Anti-Aging Spell
 
In the 4/27 Digest, David Hulan says <You are saying ... that Baum was
simply wrong in his statement in TIN WOODMAN that babies stayed babies,
etc.? And that the change noted in KABUMPO ... [was]... how it worked
from the beginning?>
 
Yes.  Perhaps, by the time of _Woodman_, the people were in the height of
their reaction to there being almost no remaining children.  Those few
persons who did have a baby were unwilling to let it grow at all.  Only
later did a more moderate, sensible attitude prevail, allowing children
to grow -- but very slowly.
 
On the same subject and in the same issue, Jeremy Steadman questions that
parents or guardians could make the aging decision for their children
when the children had ceased to be babies.
 
With wide variation, parental influence gradually decreases throughout
the maturation process.  A child's decisions are a mix of her own and
her parents' inclinations.  The relative portions of this mix are
determined not only by the child's natural assertiveness but also on the
extent to which the parents allow the child to develop and assert her
desires.
 
That Tip/Ozma was able to grow and to exhibit an independence and
boisterousness at all, after being under Mombi's control for years, says
more about his/her strength of spirit than about Mombi's power.
 
Earl Abbe

Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:49:06 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-27-97
 
Aaron:
You reminded me of one last comment I wanted to make on LAND before we
move on to OZMA. There seems to be an implication at the end that for
quite some time after he returned to Oz, the Scarecrow remained stuffed
with money from the Outside World. Does anyone have a theory (other than
that his brains weren't working well) why he didn't get himself
restuffed with straw as soon as he was somewhere that straw was
available? (He'd done so by the time of OZMA, at least.)
 
David Hulan

Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 21:53:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: A Dog Yet to be Known as Prince in Oz?
 
A few quick thoughts:
 
On the previous Book of the Moment (I have sinned greviously in not
remembering earlier ): ):  In _Land_, the Sawhorse kicks a dog in the
Emerald City.  (Apparently not an isolated incident of violent behavior. 
He kicks Roquat and the Woozy too.)  However, in _Wizard_, Toto is
apparently the first dog in Oz.  Perhaps this other dog is the other
isolated dog on the Imaji continent, namely the dog Prince, who appears in
_Mo_.  Certainly with such a reception in Oz, he might decide to see what
Mo was like, perhaps prompting the Wise Donkey and the Foolish Owl to
visit Oz, only to be stranded when Glinda cut Oz off from the world
completely. 
 
Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman                
adelman at ymail.yu.edu         North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire

Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:18:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
 
Aaron Adelman: The dog Prince got some kicking around in Mo, too,
now that you mention it.  The no-other-dogs statement is rather like
the no-other-chickens and no-other-horses statements.  All of them get
contradicted in one Oz book or another (rooster in "Wizard," dogs in
"Yellow Knight" and "Merry-go-Round," horses in "Giant Horse" and
"Yellow Knight," and so on.  The no-other comments should perhaps
be considered as narrator's errors.
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 03:36:49 -0400
From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97
Content-disposition: inline
 
 
My mother-in-law just gave me an etiquette book published in 1904, and it
states the same thing (Ruth Berman?) said about eating peas with a knife.
It says this practice may be excused when done by the elderly, who lived
back before the 4-tined fork, but there's no excuse for anyone else to eat
peas with a knife. Baum may have been poking fun at the more nit-picky
aspects of good etiquette when he had the Scarecrow think the Wizard's
manner of pea-eating "suspicious." 
 
The etiquette book also states that good manners should come from the
heart--they should not be just show. So the Victorian writer of the book at
least encouraged genuine concern for the feelings of others. 
 
Melody Grandy 

From: "W. H. Baldwin" <wbaldwin at plvwtelco.net> 
Subject: Geozify 3
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 99 22:33:02 PDT
 
  Hello, time for your Geozify lesson again. This week we extend our
  knowledge by an examination of clues available in the second volume
  of the Oz series, _Land_. Unfortunately, _Land_ doesn't have very
  many of these hints, but there are a few -- and along the way a
  couple of other interesting things worthy of comment.
  First, a summary of what was gleaned from _Wizard_: Oz is a
  rectangular (probably, but not specifically stated) country with a
  east/west to north/south ratio of about 2:1 or 10:6 relative units.
  It is surrounded on all sides by a great desert. In the exact
  center lies the Emerald City, encompassed by an irregular zone
  under its direct influence; the prevailing color of this zone is
  green. To the east, this zone is about 1 relative unit in extent,
  to the west about 1/3 unit. In the west lies the Winkie country
  with a prevailing color of yellow, to the east the blue Munchkin
  country, in the north the purple Gillikin country, and to the south
  bordering the desert is the red Quadling country. Glinda's castle
  is at the desert's edge in this country, directly south from the
  EC. The Quadling country is a long, narrow country with a depth of
  about 1/2 relative unit in its center, about 1 unit at its western
  end, unknown in the east.

_Wizard_ does not specify the shape, size, borders or other extent of
any of these countries. They are as unknown as the western U.S. at
the time of the Purchase.

  Let's see what _Land_ can add:

****************SPOILER FOR _THE LAND OF OZ_***************
  Chapter 1. Tip, the story's main character, is described as living
  in the country of the Gillikins as sort of an involuntary ward of
  Mombi, an old woman/witch.

  Chapter 2. They live in the mountains. A valley "below the
  farmhouse" is specifically mentioned. Just where east/west they
  live is not described.

  Chapter 3. After a prank and a set-to with Mombi which results in
  bringing Jack Pumpkinhead to life, J and T run away in the middle
  of the night to escape punishment; this starts day 1. After it's
  light, they stop for breakfast; Tip says he believes that they're
  headed south. (And here occurs one of those interesting
  non-geozgraphical statements. It is categorically stated that
  everything in the Gillikin country is purple: grass, trees, even
  the mud in the road! And that everything in the east is blue, in
  the south red, and in the west yellow. This appears to be a curious
  departure from _Wizard_, where one gets the impression merely that
  the _prevailing_ color of the respective countries is of a
  particular kind.)

  Chapter 4. Still day 1. They encounter the Sawhorse, which Tip
  brings to life with a magic powder.

  Chapter 5. Still day 1. Just at dark, they find a sign which states
  "Emerald City 9 miles." This is the only place I can think of
  offhand in the entire famous 45 where a distance is described with
  such unequivocal definity. It ought to be very important,
  especially being in such an early work. Contrast this with the
  information given in the last part of _Speedy_, which, if accepted
  without question, would result in a north/south axis for Oz of --
  are you ready for this? -- 3,200 miles!

Wowee-wow-wow. *** But I digress.

  Chapter 6. It's now day 2. Tip says they ought to reach the EC by
  noon.

They start out, presumably south, and after 2 miles the purple of the
Gillikin country fades to EC green. This gives us three facts for our
notes: (1)the northern extent of the EC green zone is precisely 7
miles; (2)the Gillikin country borders the EC zone in the north as
does the Winkie country in the west and the Munchkin land in the
east. This doesn't necessarily make them triangular; their shapes are
still amorphous, but it's more than we knew before; (3)Considering
they started in the middle of the night, it's only about a 2-day walk
from where Tip and Mombi lived to the EC. That's not very far! And
since they lived in the mountains, there must be quite a view from
the EC off to the north. Purple mountains' majesty indeed. *** Now
they come to a river. They swim the river, but become separated. J
and the S reach the EC without Tip.

  Chapter 7. Byplay.

  Chapter 8. Still day 2. Tip walks half of the remaining distance to
  the EC (about 3.5 miles). He meets Jinjur and her army. They walk
  to the EC and invade it. It's now about, say, noon.

  Chapter 9. Tip, Scarecrow and J escape the EC on the SH along the
  "road to the west." This is interesting because in _Wizard_ there
  was no road to the west, remember? The WWW lived there and nobody
  wanted to go that way.

It means that sometime between _Wizard_ and _Land_ a road has been
put in.

No hint as to how far west it goes; is it a cowpath or an intrastate?
"Presently" they plunge into another wide river! I don't remember
this from _Wizard_! Could this be the same river as the one Tip met
in the northern part of the green zone? Maybe it's cut a new channel
since _Wizard_.

  Chapter 10. Still day 2. They rescue J's head, dry out the S,
  continue the trip. S points out the sites of the bee attack, the
  wolf attack, and the monkey attack that occurred in _Wizard_. This
  checks out pretty well; it also means that they haven't gone very
  far during the afternoon. S says that the monkeys are slaves of
  Glinda, but this isn't true because at the end of _Wizard_ Glinda
  promised to set the monkeys free, and Glinda wouldn't lie. Guess
  the Wiz's brains aren't working very well for the S.
Finally, night falls, and they stop.

  Chapter 11. Day 3. After breakfast, an hour's ride on the SH brings
  them within sight of "the city of the Winkies" and the Emperor's
  palace. This is interesting because they are following the route of
  Dorothy in Wizard. How much would you like to bet that the Winkie
  settlement around the castle of the old WWW has developed into a
  city and that the Emperor's new clothes -- er, residence -- is on
  the site of the old castle, or close by? Sounds pretty good to me.
  In any event, they all consider strategy overnight, then "bright
  and early the next day" set out for the EC.

  Chapter 12. Day 1 of the second phase. Jinjur teams with Mombi, who
  learns our A-team is on the way. She tries several illusions to
  misdirect them, but fails.

  13-14. They meet the Wogglebug, get his history, overcome some more
  of Mombi's tricks.

  Chapter 15. They reach the EC, but are captured. Through a mouse
  power play they drive the girl army out of the palace and barricade
  themselves inside. Bad move.

  16-17. Still day 1, phase 2! They construct the Gump, bring it to
  life.

  Chapter 18. It's evening of day 1, and they all fly the coop -- the
  palace, that is -- in the Gump, heading south to ask Glinda for
  help. They fly all night. On the morning of day 2, they're
  apparently clear out of Oz and over strange territory, and the S
  admits "we are lost." Remember this.

He also says that they "must be" over the "terrible outside world
that Dorothy told us about." However, all the text says about this is
that the country was "unfamiliar" to them, so I think in view of his
first admission that he's just guessing. We from our position of
superior knowledge from later books can say definitely that Oz is
only one country on an entire unknown planet in the fairy dimension.
Thus, the "unfamiliar" countries are only and merely that and not the
"terrible outside world"; not to say that they couldn't be _a_
terrible outside world. ** Anyhow, they try to land on a mountain
ledge to reorient themselves, but crack up and are dumped into a
jackdaws' nest.

  Chapter 19. They fight off the jackdaws. The S loses his stuffing
  in the process and replaces it with paper money. They mend the
  damaged Gump with a wishing pill, then lose the rest of 'em. Oi
  weh!

  Chapter 20. It's the end of day 2. They spend the night in the
  nest. In the morning of day 3 they fly out "due north" in the
  "Scarecrow's opinion." Considering his record thus far, I'm not
  putting too much stock in this.

But flying somewhere in the general direction of north they traverse
the desert and before noon they are over "the country of the
Munchkins"! Now whoa there, podner! What happened to the Quadling
country? If you're a triangle advocate, this is a flat-out no-no; it
would be impossible to enter Oz from the south without going over at
least a smidgin of the Quadling country. What to do? Fortunately, as
we're starting from scratch with _Wizard_, we've got some leeway
here, but even so it's going to be controversial. First, let's go on:
S says the Gump is "probably" carrying them in the wrong direction.
He doesn't sound very confident to me. The G flies on, and "suddenly"
they are over the Quadling country. The Tin W recognizes some
familiar landmarks, "altered slightly" the flight of the G, and they
reach Glinda's palace, tell their story and ask for help. (Aside: in
a tone analagous to that of _Wizard_, Glinda here talks of the EC as
though it were a separate country; she refers to "the throne of the
Emerald City.") They spend the night in the palace. Day 3 they mull
things over and decide to march to the EC.

------Geozify break:
  The journey of the Gump is impossible if you accept the Thompson
  universe of perfectly triangular subdivisions. It's difficult but
  just feasible with the Haff/Martin map, which depicts the Quadling
  country as not extending all the way to the desert in the east. I
  think this is correct, but we have to amend the schematic somewhat.
  To meet the conditions of the text, there has to be a little
  projection of the Munchkin country undercutting the Quadling
  country along the desert to the south and all can be explained.

Countries often are bordered by a common river, and I think this is
the case here. In the east, the Quadling country does not extend all
the way to the desert. On the east end, a meandering river divides it
from the Munchkin country in such a manner that a projection of the
blue land is interposed between the desert and the red land. At first
I was averse to this theory because I found it hard to posit a river
so close to the desert, but I realized I was visualizing primarily a
desert like the Sahara. There are other deserts. Consider the Nile,
which runs through a desert. In our own desert southwest, there are
rivers, or at least riverbeds which flood during the infrequent rainy
seasons. It's not impossible, or even unlikely.

  So this is my story, and I'm sticking to it: When they fled the EC
  and flew south during the night, they got off course and drifted to
  the east.

After all, it was the G's first solo flight, and if you've ever
sweated out your first cross-country you know what a pain crosswinds
can be. The S himself admitted they were "lost." Everything from that
point on was merely inspired guesswork. When they left the jackdaw
nest to retrace their journey, they pretty much got the north part
right, but they were far off to the east of where they thought they
were. Just past the desert, they hit the undercutting projection of
the Munchkin country first, passed over it rather quickly (in the
book this doesn't occupy much time) and hit the Quadling country. The
TW recognizes his landmarks (since _Wizard_ he's had time to get
around a bit), adjusts the flight of the G _more_ than "slightly,"
and everything is kool!

-------End break

  Chapter 21. Day 4, phase 2. The expedition leaves Glinda's at
  daybreak, and they reach the EC zone late the same night! This is a
  little out of phase with Dorothy's journey in _Wizard_, which took
  around 3 days.

However, Dorothy was a little kid, whereas Glinda's army is
characterized as being pretty darn efficient militarily. I mean, they
have no green whiskers, and the description of their preparations for
the journey bears the earmarks of readying for a forced march. I can
see them easily covering twice the distance of D in any given amount
of time, and by including half the night it's within the realm of
possibility that they could traverse D's 3-day trek in what is
effectively a day-and-a-half. BTAIM (Be That As It May), they
surround the palace. Now it's day 5. Mombi tricks Glinda.
(Aside: Mombi, too, here speaks of the "throne of the Emerald City."
It appears that the vision of Oz as a complete, unified country has
not yet quite jelled.)

  Chapter 22. Day 6. Mombi is unmasked, but escapes, followed by
  Glinda on the SH, and the rest of the principals in the G. S says
  "the land of Oz is of small extent" so they shouldn't have much
  trouble following. Quite a departure from the vision of Thompson in
  _Speedy_ mentioned above!

  Chapter 23. Mombi is run to ground, and what's interesting about
  this is that she's run to ground on the desert! Both in _Wizard_
  and in _Land_ the deserts are mentioned, but nowhere is it stated
  that they are especially "deadly." It would appear that this
  characteristic was not uniformly applied until later in the series.

  ** Tip is transformed into Ozma.

  Chapter 24. The EC is besieged, Jinjur is captured, and AWTEW
  (All's Well That Ends Well).
********************END SPOILER*****************************

  As you can see, _Land_ has not been exactly a gold-mine of
  geozgraphical information, but our examination has not been a total
  loss. We have found nothing which contradicts irreparably the
  conclusions we reached in the analysis of _Wizard_. Some facts have
  clashed, but these were not geozify facts except for the instance
  of coloration of the Oz countries, and this was a matter of degree
  and not a point of departure.

  And yet we've learned a few new things:
  GENERAL -- We can now say that all Oz countries except the Quadling
  country impinge directly upon the green zone around the Emerald
  City. This fact lends itself to a model in which these countries
  have the overall shape of a triangle, but this particular claim is
  nowhere made in _Wizard_ or _Land_. We have deduced that in the
  east the Quadling country does not reach the eastern desert, a
  portion of the Munchkin country instead interposing itself there.
  It's possible that this interposition is the result of a river
  demarking the border between the two subdivisions, but this is only
  speculation. No knowledge has been gained about the extent of the
  Quadling country in the west, or of the shape and extent of the
  other three states except that the Munchkin country must
  necessarily have at least some contact with the southern desert as
  well as with that in the east.

  There is a mountain or a mountainous area quite close to the green
  zone in the north. It should be visible from the EC. In addition,
  an unnamed river runs through the northern portion of the green
  zone. There is also a watercourse in or close to the western reach
  of the green zone (probably outside of the zone; _Wizard_ tells us
  it's pretty narrow on this side, about 1/3 unit.) This could be the
  northern river swinging southwest, or perhaps a tributary thereof.
  There is a Winkie city at or near to the site of the old WWW's
  castle, and it hosts or is near to the Emperor's residence. It's
  possible that the E's residence is actually on the site of the old
  witch's castle, but the location is not specifically given. Also
  present is a road to the site(s) which was not there in _Wizard_.
  We are told neither how elaborate this road is nor its extent;
  i.e., whether or not it extends beyond the Winkie city. The Winkie
  city, being near the old WWW site, is only about one relative unit
  from the EC. Must be kind of like the Bosnywash complex in that
  vicinity!

  South of Oz, on the other side of the desert, there are other
  countries, strange and "unfamiliar" countries. Oz is not alone! But
  we're not told the nature of or, indeed, anything else about them.
  For now, they are a mystery.

SPECIFIC:
  Perhaps the "hardest" evidence so far encountered in _Wizard_ or
  _Land_ is the utterly unambiguous calculation of the northern
  extent of the EC green zone: precisely 7 miles. All that is
  necessary for confirmation is that the sign encountered by Tip and
  J be correct, and we haven't the slightest reason to suspect that
  it is not.

  I rest my case.
 
  W. Baldwin
  (Be on the lookout for Geozify 4 for a dismantling of _Ozma_, but
  probably not any time _very_ soon.)

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com> 
Subject: Ozzy Thoughts for the Day
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:25:53 PDT
 
Warren Baldwin again, referring to _Wizard_:
>In the west lies the Winkie
>country with a prevailing color of yellow, to the east the blue Munchkin
>country, in the north the purple Gillikin country
 
Actually, the Gillikin Country is never mentioned in _Wizard_.  The
only character who mentions the land of the north is the King of the
Winged Monkeys, who says that Gayelette had a ruby palace there.
This may be implying that Baum originally thought of the northern
country as another red land, but we don't know this for sure.
 
>Just at dark, they find a sign which states
>"Emerald City 9 miles." This is the only place I can think of offhand in
>the entire famous 45 where a distance is described with such unequivocal 
>definity.
 
In _Gnome King_, Piecer and Scrapper see a sign that gives the
distance to the Emerald City.  I think it's around thirty-some miles,
and this is after they pass the Tin Woodman's castle, IIRC.
 
>Contrast this with the information given in the last part of
>_Speedy_, which, if accepted without question, would result in a
>north/south axis for Oz of -- are you ready for this? -- 3,200 miles!
 
Only if Umbrella Island takes the straighest possible route from Big
Enough Mountain to the Emerald City, that is.  Thompson certainly
never made Oz that big in any books involving land travel there;
journeys from remote areas of the country to the Emerald City usually
only took two or three days.
 
>How much would you like to bet that the Winkie settlement around the castle 
>of
>the old WWW has developed into a city and that the Emperor's new clothes --
>er, residence -- is on the site of the old castle, or close by?  Sounds 
>pretty good to me.
 
I figured that this castle was the same as the Wicked Witch's castle,
although I don't know if Baum ever actually stated this.  If he did,
it was in _Road_.
 
In an Oz manuscript on which I had been working, and may go back to
someday when I have the time, the Scarecrow and some other characters
pay a visit to the old castle and Winkie village, which were
abandoned when the Emperor moved to his tin castle.
 
Nathan

From: "W. H. Baldwin" <wbaldwin at plvwtelco.net> 
Subject: Geozify 3 Correction
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 00:34:31 PDT
 
  I just noticed a minor error in Geozify 3:
  At the end of the synopsis of Chapter 20, after they spend the
  night in the palace, it should say that they spend _Day 4_ in
  considering what course of action to follow, _not_ Day 3. This
  means that each day following this point should have 1 added to it.
  As we're concerned with geozify here, this is not a major fault,
  but insofar as possible I guess it's better to have the narrative
  right than wrong.
  W. Baldwin

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:41:34 -0500
From: David Hulan <davidhulan at ntsource.com> 
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-99
 
Warren:
Excellent analysis of the geozifical data in _Land_. A few additional
comments:
 
>   Chapter 5. Still day 1. Just at dark, they find a sign which states
>"Emerald City 9 miles." This is the only place I can think of offhand in
>the entire famous 45 where a distance is described with such unequivocal
>definity.
 
In _Handy Mandy_ Keretaria is described as being "a hundred leagues
north of the Sapphire City." This is pretty specific, but is, as I've
mentioned before, almost certainly an error, since it would make the
Munchkin country (and therefore Oz) at least 300 miles north-south,
and probably considerably more. My personal opinion is that Thompson
(or an editor at R&L) confused "leagues" with "furlongs," which would
be a much better fit for the Haff-Martin map  and keep travel times
plausible.
 
Another useful point one can derive from this item is a reasonable
estimate of what Baum thought was the distance a child on foot could
cover in a given time. Tip awakens at daybreak; we don't know the
latitude of Oz or the season of the year, but since pumpkins were
ripe it's probably not far from the autumnal equinox and so daybreak
is probably near enough 6 AM. If Tip thinks they can cover nine miles
by noon (and in fact he does, though Jack and the Sawhorse go much
faster) then that gives a rough rate for a boy walking for an
extended tim of 1.5 mph. This is probably a bit faster than Dorothy
could go in _Wizard_, but should be in the right general ballpark.
 
 > it's only about a 2-day walk from where Tip and Mombi lived to
>the EC. That's not very far!
 
Not by modern standards with automobiles, etc., but it appears that
Tip was walking a total of about 24 hours - maybe 22, subtracting the
stops for breakfast and to animate the Sawhorse, and probably for
lunch though it's not mentioned - so at 1.5 mph we're looking at
about 33 miles. Because at first he took various paths to make it
difficult for Mombi to follow him, he probably didn't go straight
toward the EC, so as the crow flies the distance is more likely in
the 25-30 mile range. And it's pretty consistent with your estimates
from _Wizard_; if the EC is at the exact center of Oz, then the
desert is presumably about a 3-day walk from the EC in the north.
Mombi's place is probably not due north of the EC, so it might be
about halfway from the latitude of the EC to the desert.
 
>And since they lived in the mountains, there
>must be quite a view from the EC off to the north. Purple mountains'
>majesty indeed.
 
Depends on the mountains, surely. If they're like the Rockies or
Cascades or Alps, then sure, the view of the mountains from 25-30
miles away would be spectacular. But "mountain" is a term that's used
pretty loosely. For instance, near my ancestral home town in
Tennessee there's a rather rugged hill that's called "Horse Mountain"
- but its peak is only a little over 1000 feet above sea level, and
rather less than that above the surrounding valleys. At the time he
wrote _Land_ I don't think Baum had ever seen the western mountains;
he was probably thinking of mountains more like those of central New
York and northwest Pennsylvania, which are typically only a couple of
thousand feet above the surrounding countryside. Mountains that size
wouldn't be much more than irregularities on the horizon from 25-30
miles away. Judging from the fact that a view of mountains to the
north from the EC is never mentioned anywhere in the books, it seems
more likely that such relatively low mountains are intended.
 
The problem with the flight of the Gump from the jackdaws' nest to
Glinda's palace is much easier to reconcile if one assumes that (a)
during the night the Gump curved around until he was flying
east-southeast, or even east by south, rather than due south, and
that (b) when the Scarecrow thought they were flying north they were
really flying west-northwest or west by north.
(If the sun had been visible at the time they would all have known
roughly which way was north, so it probably was overcast. The
Scarecrow was therefore probably just reversing the direction they'd
come based on landmarks; since he thought they'd been flying south
through the night he'd think they were flying north as they retraced
their path.) This would place the jackdaws' nest east of the desert
opposite the southeast corner of the Munchkin country; when they
crossed the desert they would thus end up over the  Munchkin country,
but would then fairly quickly cross into the Quadling country. And if
they were flying west-northwest at the time then to get to Glinda's
palace they'd only need to alter their course from west-northwest to
west-southwest - about 45 degrees, which wouldn't be inconsistent
with "altered slightly." (If they were flying west by north and
altered to west by south it would only be 22.5 degrees - two compass
points, which fits "slightly" even better.)
 
>   The journey of the Gump is impossible if you accept the Thompson universe
>of perfectly triangular subdivisions.
 
I don't think Thompson ever says the subdivisions of Oz are
"perfectly triangular," just that they are "triangular." According to
a guidebook I had for my last European trip, the French often refer
to their country as "the hexagon," although obviously its borders
aren't straight lines. I expect the Oz "triangles," and the "oblong"
nature of the entire country, are similarly irregular along their
borders, but overall the country and the subdivisions have the
general shape described.
 
On the other hand, your analysis certainly could equally well be
right. It depends on how much faith you put in the Scarecrow's
opinion that they're flying due north out of the nest. The fact that
Baum says specifically "at least, that was the Scarecrow's opinion"
seems to me to be a reason to believe that it's not likely to be
true, and a course alteration of more than 90 degrees from due north
to at least west by south, if not west-southwest, doesn't really fit
with "altered slightly," but it's arguable either way.
 
>In our own desert southwest, there are rivers, or at least
>riverbeds which flood during the infrequent rainy seasons.
 
There are major rivers, for that matter - the Gila and the Colorado,
for two.
 
>   South of Oz, on the other side of the desert, there are other countries,
>strange and "unfamiliar" countries. Oz is not alone! But we're not told the
>nature of or, indeed, anything else about them.
 
Except that at least one of them uses dollars for currency. (Jackdaws
may fly longish distances in migrating - I don't know about them
specifically, but many closely related birds do - but they're
unlikely to carry paper money with them for long distances, so
presumably those bills came from places fairly near the nest.)
 
As I said at the beginning, I think your analysis was excellent. Most
of my comments consist of suggesting alternate possibilities because
it would be boring to quote long passages of your post and say "I
agree." I think everything you said makes good sense and may well be
right; I just think that some of your conclusions aren't the only
possibilities.
 
David Hulan

From: "W. H. Baldwin" <wbaldwin at plvwtelco.net>
Subject: Digest 10/26
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 99 19:03:51 PDT
 
Digest 10/26 . . .
Nathan: <Only if Umbrella Island takes the straighest possible route from
Big Enough Mountain>

True. I suppose they might have flown the island hither and thither for 800
miles in order to give the unjaded visitors a fillip; but I doubt it.
 
D. Hulan: <The Scarecrow was therefore probably just reversing the
direction they'd come based on landmarks> But how many landmarks could he
see at night?

<I don't think Thompson ever says the subdivisions of Oz are "perfectly
triangular"> Maybe not, but in one of the books -- it may have been
Thompson _or_ Baum, and might have been _Pirates_ -- one of the characters
describes how to make a map of Oz: namely, you take a rectangle, draw
criss-crossing lines to the corners, etc. Not much room for speculation
there.

   However, in general, none of the theories I put forward are meant to be a
Final Solution. The flight of the Gump is wide open to other
interpretations. I like mine pretty well, but I'm not really researching it
all that deeply. And as far as multiple maps are concerned (you got into
this briefly in a previous post), if you don't like the idea of one for
Baum and one for Thompson because neither was consistent, how about one for
"books using the general geographic scheme A" and one for "books using the
general geographic scheme B"? This makes more sense to me than trying to
twist, bend, move, interpret, or otherwise distort the clues we are given
to try and "make" them fit in one map, particularly since the outrageous
and notorious modification was only an east/west swap and left north/south
undisturbed. Haff and Martin did a tremendous job, but they must have had
to do a lot of fact-stretching; they _had_ to in order to put round pegs
into square holes.

   Thanks for your kind words. We all (I think) appreciate some of those now
and then.
   W. Baldwin

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 10:11:15 -0600
From: David Hulan <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 11-02 & 06-99
 
11/2:
Warren:
 >D. Hulan: <The Scarecrow was therefore probably just reversing the
 >direction they'd come based on landmarks> But how many landmarks could he
 >see at night?
 
Probably none, but I'm talking about setting a direction leaving the
jackdaws' nest, and before they landed there it had been light for some
time. "They flew over a village so big that the Woggle-bug declared it was
a city; and then they came to a range of high mountains with many deep
gorges and steep cliffs showing plainly." So if, for instance, the
Scarecrow remembered a particular peak that they'd flown over, and thought
they were flying south at the time, then he'd have thought they were flying
north if they flew back over that peak and continued in the same direction.
 
 >one of the characters
 >describes how to make a map of Oz: namely, you take a rectangle, draw
 >criss-crossing lines to the corners, etc. Not much room for speculation
 >there.
 
I expect you're remembering the one in _Handy Mandy_ (p.101), when Nox was
explaining Oz to Mandy, though there may be another case that I don't
remember. However, as others said in the 11/6 Digest, what's useful in
explaining the shape of a country in a general way doesn't mean that it's
accurate in detail, or that the author intended it to be taken as such.
It's clear in context that Nox was just trying to give Mandy an idea of
what Oz was like, not to create an accurate map.
 
As for the Haff-Martin map, I echo what Ruth said in the 11/6 Digest: they
simply reversed east and west directions for all the books where the Winkie
country is placed in the east, which seems more useful than making two
separate maps depending on which way the author stated it.
 
David Hulan

From: "Gili Bar-Hillel" <abhillel at hotmail.com>
Subject: ozzy
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:12:43 PST
 
On a different note: Futurism, Cubism, and Dada - oh my!
The other day I was watching an episode of a TV series by Terry Gilliam
called _The Last Machine_. I haven't seen any of the rest of the series,
this was episode 3. It showed clips out of some very early movies, turn of
the (previous) century stuff. I suddenly felt that I was given a whole new
context for understanding Baum - after all, these would have been the movies
that he was familiar with.
 
One theme that cropped up in lots of the movies, was a very virulent brand
of anti-suffragetist slapstick: either dark fantasies of what the world
would be like if the suffragettes have their way (chain-ganged men working
in construction under the watchful eyes of their wives), or gleeful
punishment: knocking down those ugly old women, or dunking them in water.
I'd always wondered how Baum's wife and mother in-law put up with the whole
suffragist parody in _The Land of Oz_. Now I see that Baum's was a very,
very, very mellowed down version of a genre that seems to have been
exceedingly popular.
 
But more interesting than that, and less obvious to me, was the tie-in that
the film-clips in Gilliam's show suggested between Baum and movements in art
like Futurism and Cubism. Of course I had known about these movements
before, but I always associated them with very high-brow, intellectual art,
not the more popular stuff that Baum is about. The turn of the century films
seemed to provide the missing link to me (or maybe it was seeing them as
edited and presented by Gilliam).
 
Gilliam pointed out to certain common themes: the fascination with
machinery, attemps to portray machines as human and the human body as
machinery. He shows how the human body is constantly being taken apart in
these films and its parts reassembled like machines: people blow up in
accidents; or an old man takes off his head and lets his grandchildren
bounce it like a ball, then use his limbs to bat it around; or a policeman
stretching out is arm - the long arm of the law - a good ten or more yards
to nab a thief. And this happens all over in Baum's books: the tin man
losing his limbs, langwidere; the machine/human fascination with Tiktok, the
scoodlers; the long arm in Zixi. I haven't even properly started thinking
about good examples.
 
but the more I think about it, the more I think it's worthy of research. I
laughed out loud the first time it occured to me to compare Johnny Quickstep
with the Nude Descending a Staircase. Sorry if I ramble, just wanted to
share these musings, incoherent as they are, with someone who has a chance
of understandign what I'm talking about...
 
Gili