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| 001 [Return to index] | Subject: LAND Chronology |
Day 1 - Tip begins work on Jack Pumpkinhead
Day 2 - Tip completes Jack - Mombi returns, brings Jack to life - in evening,s
Tip frees Jack & runs away; walks all night ("moon and stars shone
brightly"; last quarter?)
Day 3 - Tip enchants Sawhorse - party is separated - Jack & Sawhorse arrive
in the Emerald City, where they meet the Scarecrow - Tip meets Gen. Jinjur,
enters EC with Army of Revolt - Scarecrow, Tip, Jack & Sawhorse escape
from palace, head to Tin Woodman's Castle - night along road
Day 4 - Tip's party arrives at the Tin Woodman's Castle
Day 5 - The Tin Woodman joins Tip's party - they leave for the EC - Mombi
interferes with their progress - they meet the Wogglebug - they reach the EC
and expell Jinjur from the palace - they build the Gump and escape, flying
all night ("a cloudy sky, through which the rays of the moon could not
penetrate")
Day 6 - The Gump smashes at the Jackdaws' nest - they fight the Jackdaws &
the Gump is repaired - night in nest
Day 7 - The party leaves in the morning - the Scarecrow appeals to Glinda -
Glinda tells the stories of Ozma and the Wizard - night in palace
Day 8 - Glinda summons council and decides to march against the EC
Day 9 - Glinda's army marches against the EC - arrives after nightfall ("by
the dim light of the new moon")
Day 10 - Glinda's army besieges the EC - Glinda demands the surrender of Mombi
- Jinjur invites her to search the city - Tin Woodman picks a rose
Day 11 - Glinda discovers Mombi and defeats her in a sorcerer's battle -
disenchantment of Ozma
Day 12 - Glinda's army takes the EC - capture of Jinjur
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| 002 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: OzBucket at aol.com |
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:55:12 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket at aol.com Subject: Oz Yeah, the Digests are shrinking these days. Maybe we need to go on to Land? If so, I want to say that I thought the Scarecrow seemed uncharacteristically MEAN when he first met Jack, who he then is supposed to consider "his new friend." Excuse me, but I don't think anyone would say such cruel things to anyone he thought of as a ":friend:". Of course, I admit that the Scarecrow's character was not so well established yet, but GEEZ, this guy is downright hateful! It still surprises me that such a great series evolved from these first two books. |
| 003 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04-97 | From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu> |
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 10:09:50 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04-97 If discussion of THE [MARVELOUS] LAND OF OZ is beginning, an opening shot: Baum only decided to write a second Oz book after the success of the musical WIZARD OF OZ, his greatest financial success. He planned the second book to be stage adapted (the result, THE WOGGLE-BUG, was a flop). This esplains the army of Girls and the many excurciating puns. Stage audiences adored them. Do other traces of staginess show up in this book? Neill's illustrations for LAND are much stiffer than in later books. The Griffin Monbi is magnificent, however. Steve T. |
| 004 [Return to index] | Subject: ozzy digest | From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> |
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 14:40:15 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: ozzy digest Steve Teller: You mentioned the army of girls and excessive punning in "Land" as showing Baum's intention of making a stage play out of it. There's been a good deal of scattered comment on that topic. Fred Meyer, in "Dramatic Influence on Oz" (Best of the Baum Bugle 61- 62), included those two points, also the fact that the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman (who, as impersonated by Montgomery and Stone, had been the most popular characters in the stage "Wizard") were major characters. Dan Mannix, in "Off to See the Wizard" (Best 67-69) added the dedication of "Land" to Montgomery and Stone, the girl-faced sunflowers (for equivalent staging of the "Wizard" poppies), the fact that Tip turns into a girl (a plot development that was pretty standard in plays where the main character was a boy who was going to be expected to be played by a young woman), and the inclusion of satire on the suffragette movement (more likely to interest grownups, who would be present in a theater audience in large numbers, than the children would be the majority of readers). And Peter Glassman, in his afterword to the Books of Wonder edition, commented that the scene between the Scarecrow and Jack Pumpkinhead, with the rapid-patter cross-purposes conversation and the knockabout physical humor of pushing Jack to sit down sounded like something meant to be staged. Ruth Berman |
| 005 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04 & 05-97 | From: DavidXOE at aol.com |
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:13:23 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE at aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-04 & 05-97 3/5: Steve: Discussion of THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ? Sure; I think the discussion of WIZARD has pretty well petered out by now. I think it's obvious that Baum had a stage play in mind when he was writing LAND - there are not one but two armies of girls, plus the sunflowers with the faces of beautiful girls - all good excuses for showing off legs. The Woggle-bug and Jack Pumpkinhead were set up as a sort of Abbott and Costello pair (before the days of A&C, to be sure, but the latter are just one of the better-known examples of an old vaudeville tradition), probably hoping to duplicate the popularity of Montgomery and Stone's Tin Woodman and Scarecrow. As for Neill's illustrations, it looks to me as if he was trying to stick closer to Denslow's style in this book than he was later, and it didn't suit his talents. Denslow was a cartoonist; Neill was an illustrator. Both styles are valid ways to illustrate a children's book (Dick Martin, George O'Connor, and "Dirk" are cartoonists; Frank Kramer, Eric Shanower, and Melody Grandy are illustrators), but it works better when an artist uses his or her natural style. And since we've been mentioning this kind of thing off and on lately, it might be worthy of mention that LAND is the only Neill-illustrated Oz book I know of where a female character (Glinda) shows unmistakeable cleavage. :-) David Hulan |
| 006 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Things | From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com> |
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 97 10:54:37 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
FROM _WIZARD_ TO _LAND_ (WITH QUICK DETOURS TO _WICKED_???):
>Discussion of THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ? Sure; I think the discussion of
>WIZARD has pretty well petered out by now.
Any other votes for our moving on the _Land_? If so, then I have a
"transitional" question...Does anyone see any evidence (from _Land_
and from the musical) that from the _Wizard_ musical up until DOTWIZ
Baum's intent was for the Wizard to be evil (not unlike _Wicked_!)?
-- Dave
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| 007 [Return to index] | Subject: ozzy digest | From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> |
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 15:34:19 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: ozzy digest Dave Hardenbrook: Your suggestion that Baum might have been thinking of the Wizard as he appears in the stageplay in having the Wizard be the one who turns the infant Ozma over to Mombi sounds plausible. "Villain" is maybe too strong a term. He might actually have had in mind the kind of scenario that Hugh Pendexter used in his "Oz and the 3 Witches" story, where the Wizard thinks he is getting the kid into protection against the two Wickeds. I forget to what extent he is antagonistic in the stageplay. Ruth Berman |
| 008 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97 | From: RMorris306 at aol.com |
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 00:54:28 -0500 (EST)
From: RMorris306 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-07-97
Ruth Berman wrote:
<<Dan Mannix, in "Off to See the Wizard" (Best 67-69) added the dedication of
"Land" to Montgomery and Stone, the girl-faced sunflowers (for equivalent
staging of the "Wizard" poppies), the fact that Tip turns into a girl (a plot
development that was pretty standard in plays where the main character was a
boy who was going to be expected to be played by a young woman)...>>
That tradition seems to be on the way out (reportedly a new PETER PAN
movie is in the works that will have an actual boy as Peter), just as the
reverse tradition faded out (i.e., adult women played by boys, customary in
the 16th and 17th centuries...which is why Shakespeare's heroines are always
dressing as boys). But to some extent I've wondered to what extent Baum had
it in mind even in later years...a lot of his boys (not just the
deliberately-androgynous Chick, who *was* played by a female on stage) seem
to have androgynous, if not downright feminine, names (e.g., Inga, Kiki)...
Dave Hardenbrook wrote:
<<Any other votes for our moving on the _Land_? If so, then I have a
"transitional" question...Does anyone see any evidence (from _Land_ and from
the musical) that from the _Wizard_ musical up until DOTWIZ Baum's intent was
for the Wizard to be evil (not unlike _Wicked_!)?>>
I think Baum wasn't really sure what the Wizard was actually like at the
time...in retrospect, I'm inclined to think Mombi tried to put all the blame
on him (rather than herself) since he wasn't there to defend himself.
Rich Morrissey
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| 009 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest 3/7/97 | From: serenadb at sos.net (Serena DuBois) |
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 18:50:31 -0800
From: serenadb at sos.net (Serena DuBois)
Subject: Ozzy Digest 3/7/97
Re the Oz color coding question. I just finished rereading "Land" for the
week's discussion, and Baum made a BIG point of the color coding. Purple
grass, mud etc in the Gilliken Country changing to Green when they got near
the Emerald City. And Jinjur's army's costumes as well. THEY would have made
a great chorus line in a theatrical version particularly if balanced by
Glinda's army.
And evidently cash or trade wasn't non-existent either since that ferryman
refused to take them across the river without payment, and they had to float
over on the Sawhorse, not to mention all the "stuff" surrounding the
Scarecrow being stuffed with the money from the Jackdaw's nest. Though of
course it was agreed in the end that the "Riches of Content" were the most
important.
Serena
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| 010 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 | From: CrNoble at aol.com |
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:36:19 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble at aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-25-97 Book of the Moment: Have we started discussed _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ yet? Here are a few observations to get things rolling: 1. The plot seems much more haphazard than I had remembered. For example: Tip, the Scarecrow & co. escape the Emerald City to seek help from the Tin Woodman, but then they go back to the City with no real plan. All they really accomplish is getting trapped again, this time with more friends to share in the misery. Also, the Woggle Bug wasn't so smart to wish the Gump repaired following the crash in the Jackdaws nest. Nor would it have been terribly efficient to use a pill to wish the Gump to fly in the right direction to Glinda's palace. The silver wishing pills *could* have been used to restore the Scarecrow to the throne. Of course the story would have ended right there, and Tip might never have been transformed back to Ozma. It's been discussed many times before how powerful magic gets conveniently forgotten by Oz characters so as to keep the stories moving. 2. I had forgotten that Ozma was originally a blonde! I think it's been said in this forum that Neill needed to change her hair color so as to differentiate her from Dorothy when they're drawn together. This wouldn't have been a problem, though, if Dorothy had stayed a brunette as in _Wizard_. I happen to like Ozma as a brunette and Dorothy as a blonde, but that's probably because I'm used to them. 3. Notice the illustration of Glinda with cleavage. 4. Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't spoil? I don't remember. Maybe his fears were simply unfounded. Perhaps the Powder of Life rendered his head unspoilable. 5. As in _Wizard_, bread and cheese seem to be popular foods for travelers. I suppose they're nourishing and have a relatively long shelf life (even if they do get a little stale and moldy!). Sorry so long, Craig Noble |
| 011 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 | From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu> |
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:09:36 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 > 4. Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't spoil? I > don't remember. Maybe his fears were simply unfounded. Perhaps the Powder > of Life rendered his head unspoilable. Actually Jack's head did spoil. In (IBIW) ROAD TO OZ there is found a graveyard of Jack's former heads. However, everytime he but on a new head it seemed to retain all his old memories. That's why he lives in the midst of a pumpkin patch. Steve T. |
| 012 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 | From: Bob Spark <bspark at pacbell.net> |
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:42:46 -0800
From: Bob Spark <bspark at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97
Craig,
"Is it ever explained in later Oz books why Jack's head didn't
spoil? I don't remember. Maybe his fears were simply unfounded.
Perhaps the Powder of Life rendered his head unspoilable."
In one of the later books someone is visiting Jack and remarks are
made about him raising a crop of pumpkins in order to replace the
current one when it gets old. I can't recall which book it was.
Bob Spark
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| 013 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 | From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu |
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:37:03 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 Craig--Dorothy was a brunette in Wizard? Not in Denslow's illustration. I found it strange Neill drew Ozma blond when Tip had brown hair. I could never figured out why he did that. I would assume that Tip and Ozma would look fairly similar, at least in things as general as hair color, being twins and all. Scott |
| 014 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> |
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:04:10 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Craig: The Wishing Pills might not have been powerful enough to restore the Scarecrow to the throne. All magic has its limits. Of course, we never found out, because, as you mentioned, the characters never thought of this idea. In _Road_, it was revealed that Jack changes his head every month or so. He grows replacement heads in his pumpkin patch. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ |
| 015 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 | From: ozbot <ozbot at ix.netcom.com> |
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:14:20 -0800 From: ozbot <ozbot at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 LAND-- This is one of my top three favorite Oz books, although I have to agree with Baum's wierd plotting, and the irony of the wishing pills being able to be their solution all along. It's also ironic that Jinjur's great feministic stance (that men have been ruling Oz for too long) is nonetheless riddled with stereotypes, as she sits on a couch to eat bonbons and gets frightened by a mouse! Also, I never really liked the Wogglebug character (sorry, David!) and his presence seemed superfluous. I would have preferred the group meeting up with their friend the Lion, who would be able to add great force to their group (although he'd probably be too afraid of hurting someone if he would be pressured into fighting) and would most likely still be able to fulfill Wogglebug's only significant action-- having a strong stomach to swalllow the wishing pill. More later. . . ? Danny |
| 016 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> |
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:27:32 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Jack's Head: While his heads can and do spoil (see _The Road to Oz_), his first one did seem to have staying power beyond that of most pumpkins, perhaps as you said because that head got an actual dose of the powder of life. He makes an extremely brief appearance at the end of _Ozma_ and is described as being "a little overripe but still active". As far as I can tell, he does not appear at all in _DotWiz_. --Tyler Jones |
| 017 [Return to index] | Subject: Religion in Oz | From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> |
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:06:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> Subject: Religion in Oz 5) Chris, concerning _Land_, perhaps Nick Chopper, being the national hero of Winkieland for his destruction of Bastinda's bees and wolves, was somewhat overconfident of his military progress. As for the wishing pills, I suspect that all forms of magic are limited, and this may be something which is well-known in Oz. As such, Tip and co. may have been reluctant to wish for too much, lest the wish not be fulfiled--or worse. Also: Jack's head did spoil, but he lived on. See _The Road to Oz_ to find out how. Random thought: Tip may have gotten a stomach ache because Dr. Nikidik made the wishing pills assuming that they would be swallowed by mortals and not fairies. In the computer world, the analogous situation is when a program acts strangely when it is run under conditions that violate assumptions that the programmer made. I'd hate to see what the magical equivalent of a computer crashing is. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman at ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire |
| 018 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu> |
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:33:39 -0600 (CST) From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu> Subject: Ozzy Digest Some observations on _The Marvelous Land of Oz_: 1) The Golden Cap: during the trip to the Tin Woodman's castle, the Scarecrow tells Jack that "the Winged Monkeys are now the slaves of Glinda the Good, who owns the Golden Cap that commands their services." At the end of WWoO, however, Glinda states that she is using her three wishes to transport the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Lion to their respective realms, after which she will turn the Cap over to the head monkey and deliver all of the monkeys from slavery. I assume this is another of Baum's little slips, but it would be interesting to know if anyone has come up with an adroit explanation for the discrepancy. 2) Speaking of the Lion: where is he?? I know that Baum wrote _Land_ with an eye to transforming it with as little effort as possible into a stage play, and for whatever reasons he evidently didn't want to include the Cowardly Lion as a character, but I find it truly odd that the Lion doesn't even rate a mention in Tip's account of Dorothy's adventures (p. 36). As far as I can see, the only reference to the Lion in the entire book is in the description of the Tin Woodman's ornamental silver oil can, which has engraved scenes of the Fab Four in their various adventures. It's hard to account for this near-total erasure of the Lion from public memory--even if he's not an active character in the book, you'd expect at least some mention of how he is living happily in the forest as King of the Beasts. 3) Mortality: as people have mentioned, this is an exceedingly jokey book (again with an eye to stage dialogue), but it also has a distinctly dark side to it. I don't know of any other Oz book that has so many references to death. Poor Jack Pumpkinhead is obsessed with the thought of his ongoing decay, and the Gump positively has a death wish: "My only satisfaction is that I do not seem to have a very strong constitution, and am not likely to live long in a state of slavery." I wonder if Baum had second thoughts about all this talk of mortality and for that reason arranged for Ozma to abolish death from the Land of Oz. Craig: at the end of _Land_ Baum says that Jack Pumpkinhead remained with Ozma to the end of his days and did not spoil as soon as he had feared, but in _Road_ Dorothy encounters Jack in the best of health and currently on his fourth head (the previous three have been ceremonially buried with gravestones), managing a big pumpkin patch for the cultivation of new heads which Ozma herself continues to carve for him--a really nice touch, I think. 4) Who's Alice? In the illustration of Professor Nowitall's classroom (p. 147), if you look very closely at the front desk you will see the name Alice B. carved into the wood, with what looks like the initial D. beneath it and an arrow-pierced heart below that. Does anyone know if Neill had a real Alice in mind in this detail? Could Alice B. be a Baum relative? 5) Arithmetic: I don't know about the rest of you, but I always have had the feeling that the Sawhorse's solution to the problem of counting to seventeen by two's involves an illegal maneuver. Doubling one-half to make one doesn't really constitute counting by two's, does it? 6) The Grassy Knoll: shortly before that quotation about the Golden Cap, the Scarecrow remarks, "It was upon this grassy knoll that I once saved Dorothy from the Stinging Bees of the Wicked Witch of the West." Funny how that quirky little phrase shows up in a children's story 59 years before it became an indelible part of the vocabulary of national trauma and conspiracy theory. 7) The plot: I agree with Craig that the return to the Emerald City with nothing more than a few field mice to scare Jinjur and her army doesn't make a lot of sense. Why not go directly to Glinda for help? On the other hand, that shortcut would have deprived us of the grumpy Gump, one of the most interesting characters in the book. Also: counting this trip to the Emerald City there are a total of three major encounters with Jinjur (her initial seizure of the EC, the recapture of the throne room, and the final battle with Glinda), and clearly Baum favored three-fold repetitions of plot elements, a structural device that is central to folk fairy tales and shows up very strongly in WWoZ as well. Speaking of the Gump, not to mention a much more recent Gump: I see that the OED defines a gump as "a foolish person, a dolt" and gives citations back to 1825. I had some further comments about eating beans with a knife and General Jinjur's brand of feminism, but--enough is enough! --Gordon Birrell |
| 019 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> |
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:02:46 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Scott: I believe that, in _Land_, Baum described Ozma as having "golden tresses," or something like that. As for Ozma looking like Tip, Mombi would probably have wanted Tip to look almost nothing like Ozma, so that no one would recognize him/her as a member of the Royal Family. Melody's _Disenchanted Princess_ explains where Tip's form originated. Danny: I like the Wogglebug's character, but I agree that he added little to the plot of _Land_. Apparently Baum thought that the Wogglebug would make a good stage character. I remember reading somewhere that the Highly Magnified one's style of puns was popular in theaters of the time. BTW, one reason I like the Wogglebug's character is because I can identify with him. I know what it's like to make a pun that no one but myself appreciates. Aaron: In _Wooglet in Oz_, Chris states his belief that-Wait! Better use one of these: ************************SPOILERS FOR _WOOGLET IN OZ_******************** Now, where was I? Oh, yes. Chris states his belief that it was the sloppy algebra that gave Tip pains. The Sawhorse really didn't solve the problem of how to count to seventeen by twos, since the first step was a MULTIPLICATION by two! **********************END SPOILERS************************************** That's all for today. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ |
| 020 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest, 3-28-97 | From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com> |
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:04:56 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 3-28-97 Between "Wizard" and "Land," there's quite a character change in the Tin Woodman. After the Winkie tinsmiths repair him--"to be sure, there were several patches on him, but the tinsmiths did a good job, and as the Woodman was not a vain main he did not mind the patches at all. In "Land," though, being ruler of the Winkies must have affected him--when Tip tells theScarecrow that Nick's not really an emperor--his kingdom's too small--the Scarecrow warns him not to say that to Nick because he is "proud." One person opined that the stage portrayal of the Tin Woodman may have influenced Baum to turn Nick from "not vain" to "vain." Of course, perhaps Baum felt it was realistic to have Nick's newfound power affect him that way. As a child, I also enjoyed "The Wizard's" descriptions of the immense weath of Oz. Jewels! Gold! But only because I thought it would be nice if everyone could be rich. And good. (I still do! :-) :-) ) Of all fantasies ever read, Oz fulfils that fantasy best. :-) :-) Melody Grandy |
| 021 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 | From: DavidXOE at aol.com |
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE at aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-27-97 I just got back from visiting my mother in Tennessee and it's late, so I won't comment extensively, but I did want to mention to Craig that Jack's heads _do_ spoil; the tombstones of three of them turn up in ROAD. Apparently adding a regular carved pumpkin to his body brings it magically to life. David Hulan |
| 022 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Things | From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com> |
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 97 00:48:44 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
Gordon wrote:
>5) Arithmetic: I don't know about the rest of you, but I always have
>had the feeling that the Sawhorse's solution to the problem of counting
>to seventeen by two's involves an illegal maneuver. Doubling one-half to
>make one doesn't really constitute counting by two's, does it?
I would say that the definition of "counting by twos" is starting with
two and incrementing by two...In C++ it would be:
void Wishing_Pill::Count_to_seventeen()
{
for(i = 2; i < 17; i += 2) // Start with 2 and increment by 2 each time
{
cout << i << endl; // Print the number we're currently counting
if(i == 17) Grant_Wish(); // This will *never* be executed
// because i will *never* be 17! :(
}
}
The output of this will be the even numbers: 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16. The next
iteration will increment i from 16 to 18 bypassing 17. Now that I've shown
off my programming knowledge, I come to the conclusion that counting to
17 by twos is utterly impossible! The only two avenues of escape is if (A) Oz
uses an alternate number/numeral system in which the symbol '17' represents
an even number; or, more likely, (B) In Oz, "counting by twos" has a broader
definition, and can also mean starting with one and counting odd numbers...
*This* will work:
void Wishing_Pill::Count_to_seventeen()
{
for(i = 1; i < 17; i += 2) // Start with 1 and increment by 2 each time
{
cout << i << endl; // Print the number we're currently counting
if(i == 17) Grant_Wish(); // Grant the wish when i equals 17! :)
}
}
Output: 1,3,5,7,11,13,15,17
^^
We hit 17, and our wish is granted!!! :) :)
(The preceeding code was reprinted with the kind permission of
The Magic of Everything Faerie Programmers of Nonestica, Inc.) :) :) :)
-- Dave
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| 023 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 | From: Bob Spark <bspark at pacbell.net> |
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 06:21:28 -0800
From: Bob Spark <bspark at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97
Gordon,
Re: "Speaking of the Gump, not to mention a much more recent Gump:
I see that the OED defines a gump as "a foolish person, a dolt" and
gives citations back to 1825."
There once was a comic strip character named Andy Gump who was
quite a foolish person. I don't know if he was in existence in 1825
(rather doubt it) but if there are any OZ connections I can't make
them. Baum's Gump is definitely not "a foolish person, a dolt".
Bob Spark
|
| 024 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 | From: rri0189 at ibm.net |
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:52:26 +0500
From: rri0189 at ibm.net
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97
2) I have always assumed, even from childhood, that the Sawhorse's logic
in counting seventeen by two's fossilizes an old school rote formula
that runs: "Counting by twos: two, twice two is four, six, eight,
ten....". It is not unheard of for paedegogical paradigms (Hey! I used
the word correctly!) to fall out of fashion. Perhaps some people on the
Digest are old enough to remember:
a, e, i, o, u, and sometimes y & w
(It's true; there are a very, very few rare English words of Welsh origin,
such as "cwm" [an English borrowing with the same Celtic root as "coomb",
which is itself one of the dozen or so British {i.e., proto-Welsh} words
to survive from pre-Anglo-Saxon, pre-Roman times into modern English],
in which "w" is used as a vowel.)
or
ST. WAPNIACL.
(If no-one can remember, or guess, who the old saint is, I'll update on a
later posting.)
|
| 025 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> |
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:41:19 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Gordon: The Scarecrow was probably incorrect when he stated that Glinda had the Golden Cap. After all, if Glinda fulfilled her plans at the end of _Wizard_, the Scarecrow would have been in the Emerald City by the time that Glinda gave the cap to the Monkey King. Death might be mentioned more in _Wizard_ than it is in _Land_, but it is mentioned many times in both. Someone once mentioned that, when death is mentioned in _Land_, it is in a more humorous way than in _Wizard_, with Jinjur's threat to turn the Wogglebug into goulash cited as an example. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ |
| 026 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-24 thru 27-97 | From: DavidXOE at aol.com |
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:27:15 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE at aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-24 thru 27-97 3/27: Craig: March 26 was supposed to be the kickoff date for discussing LAND, so you're not premature. I agree that the plot of the book is haphazard - pretty much the classic "idiot plot", meaning that if the lead characters would stop acting like idiots for five minutes, the story would end right there. I noted that in the first chapter, Tip refers to his having had the ague "last year". This appears to be pretty conclusive evidence that human illness had not been abolished in Oz prior to Ozma's accession, and if illness hadn't been abolished, then aging and death probably hadn't either, though that's inference and not conclusive. Also, something that bothered me even when I first read the book at age 8 or so - starting at one-half is no help in counting to seventeen by twos. It's true that one is twice one-half, but counting by twos is an arithmetic progression, not a geometric one. If you want to count to seventeen by twos you have to start at minus one. (Or just start with one in the first place.) David Hulan |
| 027 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 | From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu> |
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:48:23 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 > From: Gordon Birrell > Some observations on _The Marvelous Land of Oz_: > > 1) The Golden Cap: during the trip to the Tin Woodman's castle, the > Scarecrow tells Jack that "the Winged Monkeys are now the slaves of > Glinda the Good, who owns the Golden Cap that commands their services." > At the end of WWoO, however, Glinda states that she is using her three > wishes to transport the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Lion to their > respective realms, after which she will turn the Cap over to the head > monkey and deliver all of the monkeys from slavery. I assume this is > another of Baum's little slips, but it would be interesting to know if > anyone has come up with an adroit explanation for the discrepancy. > The Scarecrow has a leaky memory? > Craig: at the end of _Land_ Baum says that Jack Pumpkinhead remained > with Ozma to the end of his days and did not spoil as soon as he had > feared, but in _Road_ Dorothy encounters Jack in the best of health. Baum intended MARVELOUS LAND to be his last Oz book. Later he intended EMERALD CITY to be the last Oz book. He just couldn't kill his best cash cow. > I had some further comments about eating beans with a knife and General > Jinjur's brand of feminism, but--enough is enough! > "I Eat my peas with honey. I've Done it all my life. They do taste kinda funny, But it keeps them on my knife." Steve T. |
| 028 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> |
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:30:16 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Gordon: The boring explanation, of course, is that the brainy Scarecrow simply forgot about Glinda's promise to the King, and did not know of the three-service limit. Of course, Glinda could have altered the cap so that the owner (herself) could use it indefinitely, but that seems out of character for Glinda, especially since she said that she wanted to grant the monkeys their freedom. Perhaps the Monkeys were so impressed with Glinda (she is, after all, something special) that they volunteered to serve her without the cap. I forgot if _The Marvelous Monkeys of Oz_ or _The Winged Monkeys of Oz_ mentioned the cap. Can anybody help out? In the non-HACCurate _A Barnstormer in Oz_, after Glinda gives the cap to King Izarndanduz (The iron-handed one), who hides it, but somebody finds it again... The lion's absence is unusual. If the lion had been there, we would have had a very interesting parallel with the first book. However, it is perhaps better in the long run that it did not happen this way. IMHO, it would have set a bad precedent and it's possible that almost all Oz books would be about somebody who journeys around Oz with those same three characters. Death in _Land_: Also, Jinjur deliberately gives full details on how each of Tip's companions will come to their grisly end. counting to 17 by 2's: It's an interesting parallel to the Scarecrow's mangling of the pythagorean theorem in the MGM movie. It would have been easier to simply start at one, which after all IS a natural starting point for any counting sequence. I suspect that the spell simply ignored the one-half part. Gordon, I must confess: I was the second Scarecrow behind the grassy knoll. Dave: Cool program, but you forgot to pass in a pointer to the wish itself! :-) --Tyler Jones |
| 029 [Return to index] | Subject: Arithmetic in Oz | From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> |
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:03:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> Subject: Arithmetic in Oz 1) Gordon, yes, the Sawhorse cheated on his math. 2) Nathan, what does _Wooglet_ say about why the Wogglebug didn't get stomach pains? He started from 0.5 as well. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman at ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire |
| 030 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Things | From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com> |
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 21:18:56 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
MANY "GUMPS":
No one has mentioned Forrest Gump yet! :)
Gump: Actually, Forest Gump is the wood where my species lives... :)
FROM _WIZARD_ TO _LAND_:
Our BCF discussion has kind of made a nice smooth transition on its
own from _Wizard_ to _Land_ without official announcement from me...
I hope it is always like this... :)
I now have a very important _Land_-related question...What ***DID*** the
Wogglebug say???? :)
-- Dave
|
| 031 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu> |
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:34:14 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu> Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave: I am mightily impressed with your use of programming language to set up the complicated maneuver of counting by two's from one to seventeen. Still, the question remains of establishing 1 as the initial integer in a progression that proceeds by two's. Doubling 1/2 actually sets up a different series than the one the Sawhorse comes up with, if you follow the old rule that Rich (?? you didn't sign your name) cited: >I have always assumed, even from childhood, that the Sawhorse's logic >in counting seventeen by two's fossilizes an old school rote formula >that runs: "Counting by twos: two, twice two is four, six, eight, >ten....". According to this formula, you could indeed reach 17 as follows: "Counting by twos: one-half, twice one-half is one, two, three, four, five, six, . . . seventeen." Also Dave: I was referring to Forrest Gump when I wrote "a much more recent Gump"; guess I shouldn't have been so oblique. Danny: I agree with you about Jinjur's brand of feminism. Any true feminist would cringe at these totally unreconstructed women with their love of chocolates and caramels, their fear of mice, their knitting needles, their laziness, their uncontrolled greed for jewelery. Jinjur's plans for doing away with the Woggle-Bug (death by cooking--turning him into a spicy goulash) is further evidence of her inability to get beyond conventional feminine thinking. All this is a far cry from the women who struggled with great courage and dignity, and often at considerable personal risk, to secure women's right to vote. Since Baum had close associations with the suffragette movement, he must have created Jinjur as an awful example of how *not* to go about securing women's rights. Still, it's unfortunate that his characterization of Jinjur played (plays) right into the hands of those who would dismiss the feminist movement as a peevish and petty revolt against the natural order of things. Incidentally, here is how Baum describes Jinjur's uniform: ". . . her silken waist being of emerald green and her skirt of four distinct colors--blue in front, yellow at the left side, red at the back and purple at the right side." We later hear that the green waist represents the Emerald City and the other sections refer to the colors of the four quadrants of Oz. Yes, but! If blue, representing the Eastern quadrant of the Munchkins, is in front, then yellow, representing the Western Winkies, should be in back, not on the left; purple, representing the northern Gillikins, should be on the left side, not the right; and red, representing the southern Quadlings, should be on the right side, not in back. Perhaps Baum was suggesting that Jinjur is as wrongheaded about Oz geography as she is about everything else. On the Wizard's "suspicious" action of eating beans with a knife: I'm curious to know whether the younger members of the Digest have heard about that rule of etiquette that warns you against using a knife to eat beans or peas. I remember being very puzzled about that rule when I was growing up. It apparently means that you shouldn't use the knife to shovel the beans or peas onto your fork instead of daintily lifting them up with the fork alone. It's amusing that the Wizard's disregard for this rule marks him as a person of potentially questionable character--but does anyone take the rule seriously these days? Or even know about it? --Gordon Birrell |
| 032 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 | From: ozbot <ozbot at ix.netcom.com> |
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:34:40 -0800 From: ozbot <ozbot at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 WHEN I WAS SEVENTEEN Hm. I had the same experience with feeling uncomfortable with the Sawhorse's counting stradegy. As a kid, I was excited beacuse I thought I figured out the "secret" behind the wishing pills-- "just start counting at ONE" my mind was shouting happily. Then they started counting at one-half, and I was a little disappointed. Kind of like picking the wrong suspect in an Agatha Christie novel, which I also seem to do more often than not. Danny |
| 033 [Return to index] | Subject: Today's Oz Growls | From: Richard Bauman <RBauman at compuserve.com> |
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:25:39 -0500 From: Richard Bauman <RBauman at compuserve.com> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Bob - I thought Gump came from gumption in Sidney Smiths strip, "The Gumps." Your dictionary is much bigger than mine. In any event, I think "The Gumps" started in February 1916, long after our BCF was written. The Land of Oz p.16 "Mombi met a crooked wizard who resided in a lonely cave in the mountains." Now there's a story line for someone. p. 35 The color thing - everything is purple - grass, trees, houses, fences - Yuk! I have a hard time with purple asparagus. p. 79 Here is the answer to one question. There is only one language in Oz. p. 154 Now why would Baum give tailors nine lives? Curious? p. 262 Apparently the "Deadly Desert" wasn't at this time, because they all walked around in it. p. 276 Another question answered: "All down her back (Ozma's) floated tresses of ruddy gold." The "author's note" is interesting. The book was launched by 1000 little letters from 1000 little girls. It is interesting that Baum changed a fairy girl into a boy in "The Enchanted Island of Yew" which came out in 1903. He must have liked the idea as he changed Ozma into a boy in 1904 in our BCF. Now it will be three more years before "Ozma of Oz" comes out in 1907. Regards, Bear (:<) |
| 034 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> |
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:31:44 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Explanations: While it is fun to figure out clever explanations for things which seem odd, such as the Scarecrow mentioning that Glinda still controlls the Winged Monkeys via the Golden Cap, (and I do this more than anybody), most of the time, it can probbaly be safely assumed that someone (be it the character, the informer, the narrator or the publisher) simply made a mistake. Nobody gets every detail right every time, after all. Not even me :-) (I now wait patiently for the lightning to strike). more counting triviata: Well, there is usually a zero at the beginning of sequences when computers are concerned, but Tip may not have known this. --Tyler Jones |
| 035 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> |
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 23:14:26 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Aaron: _Wooglet_ suggests that it was the Wogglebug's strong stomach that allowed him to swallow the pill without a pain. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ |
| 036 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> |
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 11:11:28 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest On the Jackdaws' Nest: All right. Here's something that actually pertains to our BCF. Where do people think the jackdaws' nest is located? Haff and Martin place it in Aurissau, while Pendexter (in _Wooglet_) suggests that it is in New Mexico. The Scarecrow thinks that the Gump has flown into the Great Outside World, but there is a possibility that it flew to another part of Nonestica, with which the Scarecrow was unfamiliar. It is true that the nest contains dollar bills, but, according to "The Queen of Quok," Quok, which is placed not far from the jackdaws' nest by Haff and Martin, uses dollars and cents as currency. The many treasures in the nest would be more likely to exist in Nonestica than in the Outside World. Anyway, what do you think? Also, why did the Ozites seem to recognize the dollar bills as money, when there is no indication that Oz ever used paper money? -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ |
| 037 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digests, 03-28 thru 03-31-97 | From: DavidXOE at aol.com |
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 14:54:25 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE at aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 03-28 thru 03-31-97 3/28: Scott H.: In the color plates of my BoW edition of WIZARD, Dorothy appears to be more of a redhead than anything else. Not flaming red, but sort of chestnut. Definitely not what I think of as brunette (which would be like Ozma in the later books). Danny: The Woggle-bug character isn't supposed to be liked. That's not his function in any of the books where he appears. (Including the one I've written.) But I enjoy writing about what a friend on GEnie (back in the good old days of GEnie) referred to as "pain-in-the-ass characters". That's why my first three Oz novels have centered on Bungle, Eureka, and the Professor. Some others that fall into that category include Button-Bright, Queen Ann, Quox, Bilbil (but unfortunately he had a personality change when he was disenchanted), the Frogman, Red Reera, and Kabumpo. None of them are at all evil, even in the mild Ozzy sense, but they all have personality flaws that make them frequently annoying. It's true that the Woggle-bug is largely superfluous to the story of LAND (as you point out, the only significant act he does is to swallow the wishing pill, and it would have had no effect on the story if Tip hadn't gotten cramps from it); he was clearly added with the projected stage production in mind. 3/30: Gordon: I agree with the person who said that the Scarecrow simply forgot that Glinda had said she'd give the King of the Winged Monkeys the Golden Cap after he'd granted her wishes. Though I suppose it's possible that the King thought it would be safer with Glinda than anywhere else he could store it; presumably destroying it isn't feasible. The absence of the Lion is probably due to the fact that the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman dominated the stage play (in the persons of Stone and Montgomery), so they were the only major characters from the first book to reappear in the second - which, as several people have remarked, was clearly written as the basis for another play. Note that the only "normal" animals that appear in LAND are the field mice; animals are harder to use on stage. (Or, from the Oz-as-history point of view, the Lion didn't appear in LAND because that was the way it happened!) Nathan: The phrase Baum used about Ozma's hair was "tresses of ruddy gold." Oddly, he said her lips were "tinted like a tourmaline," which is pretty ambiguous. bluish-green. If he wanted to avoid the cliched "ruby" I'd have thought he'd have chosen "garnet" or some other gem that's characteristically red or pink. 3/31: Bob: The Gumps of the comics certainly don't date back to 1825. It's a fairly early comic strip, but it started, as nearly as I can figure from my source, in 1911 or 1912. (So if there's any connection, it's Baum's Gump that inspired the comic Gumps and not vice versa. It's not impossible; "The Gumps" got its start in the Chicago Tribune.) Actually, though, Andy Gump wasn't particularly foolish, and his Uncle Bim Gump was a billionaire. Tyler: I don't remember if THE WINGED MONKEYS mentioned the Golden Cap, but it certainly isn't used to command them in that book. Dave: The Woggle-bug said a great many things, but the question was asked in connection with QUEER VISITORS, not LAND. David Hulan |
| 038 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 | From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu |
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:57:09 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 I think it is interesting to think about jinjur in modern terms. she is a sort of "feminazi," a radical feminist insistent upon getting even with men. This is the reason, I believe, Baum portrays her this way, suggesting that a 180- is as wrongheaded as anything else. There are some feminists like that today, and some of them are the loudest. I think he showed quite a bit of foresight in his parody. Scott |
| 039 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> |
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:06:52 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Gordon: Your analysis of Jinjur's skirt is an interesting parallel to Edmund and Eustace commenting that girls lack an understanding of geography. I can dimly remember my grandmother admonishing me not to use my knife to scoop up food onto my fork, but I haven't thought of it in about 20 years. --Tyler Jones |
| 040 [Return to index] | Subject: The Table Manners of the Wizard (Ozzy Digest) | From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> |
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:16:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: The Table Manners of the Wizard (Ozzy Digest)
1) Gordon, there's a rule against using the knife to put peas and beans
onto the fork?
3) Bear, concerning your notes on _Land_,
1) Dr. Pipt in _Patchwork Girl_ says he is the Crooked Magician
who gave Mombi the Powder of Life. I presume that either he was living in
the Gillikin Country at the time or Mombi lied about her destination and
walked (or self-transformed into a bird and flew) to the Gillikin-Munchkin
border.
2) Purple food may be unpalatable, but blue food is really
unnatural. Considering that the national coloration isn't always present
on things like trees, grass, and mud, maybe it varies with the magic flux.
4) Why shouldn't tailors have nine lives?
6) An solution to the problem of Ozma's changing hair coloring
will appear in _Woozy_.
Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman
adelman at ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire
|
| 041 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Things | From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com> |
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 97 00:01:16 (PST)
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
Nathan wrote:
>All right. Here's something that actually pertains to our BCF. Where do
>people think the jackdaws' nest is located? Haff and Martin place it in
>Aurissau, while Pendexter (in _Wooglet_) suggests that it is in New
>Mexico...
If the IWOC map says Aurissau, I go along...I don't think any of the party,
being all magical beings except Tip, could have survived beyond Nonestica...
Now that our BCF is _Land_, I want to ask one of the "biggies" of Ozzy
problems...Are Nikidik and Dr.Pipt the same bloke or not????? :)
-- Dave
|
| 042 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 | From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu> |
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:37:34 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 > Bob: > The Gumps of the comics certainly don't date back to 1825. It's a fairly > early comic strip, but it started, as nearly as I can figure from my source, > in 1911 or 1912. (So if there's any connection, it's Baum's Gump that > inspired the comic Gumps and not vice versa. It's not impossible; "The Gumps" > got its start in the Chicago Tribune.) Actually, though, Andy Gump wasn't > particularly foolish, and his Uncle Bim Gump was a billionaire. > All right: From the Oxford Enlgihs Dictionary (original edition): "Gump . . . dial and U.S. A foolish person, a dolt. [Earliest citation] 1825 JAMIESON, Suupl., Gump, a numskull; a term most generally applied to a female, conveying the idea a great stupidity." Steve T. |
| 043 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> |
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:59:19 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Aaron and Dave: Somebody wrote an article in the _Bugle_ concerning the identity of Dr. Pipt and Dr. Nikidik. Some think that they are the same person, and that Dr. Nikidik, for some unknown reason, had to flee the Gillikin country and change his name. Others suggest that Pipt merely got the box from another wizard, never noticed the false bottom, and traded it away to Mombi. I favor the latter theory. Jackdaw's Nest: For pretty much the same reasons as Dave, it is highly likely that the nest was in Nonestica just the other side of the desert. --Tyler Jones |
| 044 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 | From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu> |
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:11:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 LAND: Baum's chauvinistic description of Jinjur was apparently meant as an affectionate dig at his mother-in-law, a major in the suffragette movement. |
| 045 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 | From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu> |
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:33:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 David: Tourmaline comes in a red variety (Rubellite). Perhaps that's what Baum was thinking. --Robin |
| 046 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Things | From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com> |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 97 23:10:21
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
Could Nikidik and Pipt be related, like father-son or something?
-- Dave
|
| 047 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 | From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu> |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:40:04 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman <robino at tenet.edu> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Nikidik/Pipt: There are several references in the FF indicating that they are one and the same person. All I remember now is that they deal with who Mombi got the Powder of Life from. --Robin |
| 048 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 | From: rri0189 at ibm.net |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:47:27 +0500 From: rri0189 at ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Content-id: <23_78_1_860161647> 1) Since no one seems to remember old St. Wapniacl any more.... State Treasury War Attorney General Postmaster General Navy Interior Agriculture Commerce Labor ...the names (for most of the first half of this century) of the cabinet departments in order of their creation, and therefore the order of succession after the Vice-President. (The provision inserting the Speaker of the House and the President Pro-tem of the Senate before the cabinet is also recent.) 2) I always supposed the mishmash of "Land" and "Ozma" that is "Return" was a (more or less) honorable attempt by Disney to get past the -- errr -- unsuitable character of Jinjur while still leaving the state of affairs at the end suitable for further films along canonical lines. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" |
| 049 [Return to index] | Subject: ozzy digest | From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:36:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: As you say, Denslow didn't draw Dorothy as either blonde or brunette. (Dictionary definition of brunette is not brown-haired but dark-brown-haired.) I suppose "chestnut" is a reasonable description, although I think of chestnut as more of a distinctly "red" (which in hair terms is more like orange) shade. Denslow's Dorothy looks to me more like a "Jeanie with the light brown hair" shade. On tourmaline -- it looks as if Baum must have been familiar mainly with the pink kind. There's a Tourmaline among the Pinks in "Sky Island," I think. Scott Hutchins: Before comparing Jinjur to "feminazis," you need to find some to compare her to. The term was invented as a pejorative, and as it is actually used, it means any "feminist" and expresses the user's discomfort with the theory that women should be paid comparably to men for comparable work and that society should try to get set up to make it possible for both women and men to participate in both raising families and in earning livings.Most feminists do want to "get even" with men in that sense, but you presumably mean "get even" in the sense of "pay back oppression with equal oppression." Who are these "loud" examples you have in mind, and have you read what they wrote, or are you going on summaries by biased observers? As Gordon Birrell said, it is unfortunate that Baum's characterization of Jinjur played and plays "into the hands of those who would dismiss the feminist movement as a peevish and petty revolt against the natural order of things." (By the way, you asked for suggestions on what happened to Jinjur's husband, as he isn't seen in later books. There's no reason why anything should have happened to him. He doesn't even need to be off on a journey or divorced, the suggestions Tyler Jones mentioned. He is, obviously, a quiet fellow, and is probably still there and still inclined to avoid getting involved in active sorts of activities.) Gordon Birrell on why Jinjur's uniform does not arrange the Oz colors geographically: Possibly she was thinking aesthetically (she is characterized in later books as something of an artist), and thought blue and purple looked better separated by red and yellow, rather than having two cool colors together and two warms. Dave Hardenbrook on whether Dr. Pipt and Dr. Nikidik are the same person: Sure, why not? Going on foot from mid-north-Gillikin country to a Munchkinland destination may seem to call for a longer time en route than it took Mombi, but, as Aaron pointed out, the magician might have been living in the Gillikin country at the time, or Mombi might have gone part of the way by magic. It's been suggested that he changed his name from Nikidik to Pipt (possibly in staging a supposed death, as he was reported dead in "Road"). But I'm inclined to think that his full name was Nikidik Pipt, and that he didn't stage his death, but just moved (out of the Gillikin country?) on short notice and was supposed dead. He might have moved, as has been suggested, in hopes of avoiding Ozma's ban on unauthorized magic, but it might have been something unrelated. (Possibly he worried that dealing with Mombi was a dangerous sort of occupation, and he headed out of Gillikin territory about the same time Tip did, and for a similar reason?) Ruth Berman |
| 050 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu> |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:43:46 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell <gbirrell at post.cis.smu.edu> Subject: Ozzy Digest More on eating beans with a knife: Margaret Visser takes up this problem in _The Rituals of Dinner_ (Harper Collins, 1991). Turns out that the fork as we know it today was relatively late to evolve; the earlier version, still in widespread use in the nineteenth century, resembled the carving fork of today, with just two widely spaced tines. The late-nineteenth-century table knife, on the other hand, generally had a wide blade, rounded at the end and shaped like a spatula--unlike the tapered knives of today (you can still see this shape in old flatware sets). Visser refers to the "fork revolution" that occurred when the modern model with four tines was introduced in the nineteenth century: at that point it became possible to pick up the food and gracefully bring it to one's mouth without the danger of grievous bodily injury (as would be the case with the old fork) or the appearance of shovelling the food into one's mouth (as would be the case if you piled up the beans--not green beans, but baked beans--on the flat knife). As a result of the ongoing etiquette war between the fork and the knife, the knife was eventually demoted to a cutting function only, and people like Emily Post were quite firm in stating that the knife should never be used for any other function, such as piling food onto the fork, and should never under *any* circumstances be actually brought to the mouth. So the Wizard, by eating beans with his knife, would be revealing his ignorance of the new polite and sophisticated table manners. My hunch is that rural America held on to the old ways much longer than the city folk, and that's why it's amusing that the Scarecrow, in all innocence, attempts to defend the Wizard's eating habits by saying "Maybe that's the polite way to eat in Omaha." --Gordon Birrell |
| 051 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: CrNoble at aol.com |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:12:04 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble at aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest David: I agree that Dorothy appears to have chestnut colored hair in the BoW _Wizard_ color plates. My dictionary describes chestnut as a "reddish brown." However, I've always divided the world into blondes, brunettes and redheads, and I have (perhaps mistakenly) classified all brown-haired people as brunettes. Since chestnut is a reddish brown and not a brownish red, I consider Denslow's Dorothy to be a brunette. In any event, she's certainly not a blonde. I raised this issue in the first place because I was wondering why Neill changed Ozma's hair color between _Land_ and _Ozma_. The only explanation I've ever heard was that he did it in order to prevent confusion when drawing Ozma next to Dorothy. I simply pointed out that if Neill had kept Dorothy's dark hair, he wouldn't have had to change Ozma's light hair. The most plausible explanation to me is that Neill originally drew Ozma in _Land_ as a blonde because blondes were considered more beautiful. Then when it was time to draw Dorothy in _Ozma_, he made her a blonde for the same reason. Later when he had to picture them together, he must have decided to switch Ozma's hair color -- perhaps because the red poppies in her hair would contrast more attractively if she were a brunette. _Land of Oz_: I'll add my voice to the chorus confused about counting to 17 by 2's. I must have thought I would look stupid if I admitted to not understanding what must be simple to a child. So I said nothing. Instead, I showed my spoiled pumpkinhead by asking the obvious question about Jack's head! Craig Noble |
| 052 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digests | From: DavidXOE at aol.com |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:43:21 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE at aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests 4/2: Gordon: I don't know about a "rule" about using a knife to shovel one's peas or beans onto the fork - to be honest, the idea never occurred to me. Or maybe I tried it once when I was too young to remember and was told so firmly not to that it's become a repressed memory. Do people use knives to push beans onto a fork? Seems awkward to me - either I have to eat left-handed or the knife and fork are in the wrong hands. Bear: Most asparagus has a purplish cast at the tips. I suspect that Baum's giving tailors nine lives may be an allusion to the saying, "Nine tailors make a man." My memory on the subject is rather vague at this point, but I believe that in English villages it was customary to ring the largest church bell nine times to mark the death of an adult male (there were different numbers of rings for females and children), and that the largest bell (if there was more than one) was called the "tailor". (That was the origin of the title of Dorothy Sayers' classic mystery centered around bell-ringing, THE NINE TAILORS.) That, at least, would be where I'd start researching if I wanted to determine why Baum associated nine lives with tailors as opposed to some other occupation. It's possible that the Great Sandy Waste along the southern border of Oz wasn't as deadly as the Deadly Desert along the western border; that's the only one that's definitely recorded as destroying all living flesh to touch it. I don't think there's even evidence that the GSW gives off toxic fumes, as we know the Shifting Sands to the east and the Impassable Desert to the north do (from MAGIC and SILVER PRINCESS respectively). 4/3: Nathan: I agree with Haff and Martin (and Dave); the jackdaws' nest is almost certainly on the continent of Nonestica. First, as Dave says, it's unlikely that any of the adventurers but Tip would survive in the Great Outside World. Second, they simply didn't fly long enough - the Gump isn't that fast (we know that he flies slower than the Sawhorse runs). Me: A line got lost in my comment about Baum's description of Ozma's lips. It should have read: "Oddly, he said her lips were 'tinted like a tourmaline,' which is pretty ambiguous. Tourmalines come in a variety of colors, and in fact most I've seen were bluish-green." David Hulan |
| 053 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 14:28:17 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Tyler: According to Fred Otto's short story "The Wogglebug's New Clothes," which appeared in the 1987 (I think) Oziana, the tailor's name is Stichwell J. Threadneedle. Robin: Apparently Baum had been familiar with a pinkish sort of tourmaline, since he made Tourmaline the Queen of the Pinkies in _Sky Island_. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ |
| 054 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com> |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:35:33 -0700 From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com> Subject: Oz BCF: I notice that in _Land_ when our friends escape from the Emerald City and head to the Tin Woodman's castle, Baum describes that the castle is near a small town. There is Even a small illo of it in the chapter heading. I am at the office right now, so I can't Refer to the book, and I forgot if Baum mentioned that the castle was in the town or Next to it. I am working under the assumption that at this time the Woodman was still living in The old castle of the WWW. According to the non-FF _Tin Castle_, the tin castle is Built soon after this story. This town was not mentioned in WIZARD, but the arrival and departure was not under Normal terms, so perhaps Baum did not need to mention it. Can anybody remember if this town has been mentioned anywhere else in or out of the FF? In Farmer's and Laumer's non-HACCurate writings, this town is referred to as Winkiezia. Aaron, I believe, is also using this name in his magic machine series. --Tyler Jones |
| 055 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 | From: DavidXOE at aol.com |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:21:14 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE at aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Nathan: My feeling is that Nikidik and Pipt are two different people, but that Pipt was the one who made the Powder of Life in all three books where it appears, even though the way it works is different in each book. (In LAND there's the Weaugh-Teaugh-Peaugh incantation, with gestures, much like the charm on the Golden Cap. In ROAD Dyna has to wish her bear alive. In PATCHWORK GIRL the powder just has to be sprinkled.) There's no evidence at all that Pipt has the level of magical power that would let him create Nikidik's Wishing Pills, and quite a bit that he doesn't. Those pills have to be somewhere in the 7-8 range on Dave's Scale of Magic, and Pipt doesn't seem to be higher than a 5 at best. Robin: I know that tourmaline comes in a red version, and I'm sure that's what Baum was thinking of - but it's far from the only, or even the commonest, color of tourmaline, which makes it, as I said, ambiguous. It's as if he said "the color of a chess piece". Sure, many sets have red men - but they all have white, and many have other colors for the non-white side (which is conventionally called "black"). David Hulan |
| 056 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> |
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:17:33 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Nikidik and Pipt: It is possible, of course, that the two are related, although there is no evidence for it one way or the other in or out of the FF. Currently, I favor the theory that Nikidik was another Wizard who at one time traded with Pipt and accidentally gave a box with wishing pills to him. Pipt never noticed and gave the box to Mombi. --Tyler Jones |
| 057 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Things | From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com> |
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 97 00:34:57
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
_LAND_-RELATED THOUGHTS:
Jellia: Let's see -- Today is Saturday, so Nikidik and Pipt must be
one in the same today (They're two people on Mondays,
Wednesdays and Fridays)... :)
I have a question concerning the Wogglebug: Could the "Highly Magnified"
Wogglebug not be the original Wogglebug, but instead a projected "shadow"
that came to life, fleshed out. and so then could step off the
screen, 'a la _The Purple Rose of Cairo_?
Aujah: Oh just *peachy*! Now we have a "Two Wogglebugs" theory! :)
Wogglebug: Not at all! The backward arthropod from which I was projected
was but an archaic insect, whereas *I* am "Highly Magnified"
and "Thoroughly Educated"!
-- Dave
|
| 058 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission | From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) |
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:08:09 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission I note that in _Land_, the Wogglebug is not "the Wogglebug," but "the Woggle-Bug." By _Emerald City_, if not before, that had been changed to its current form. Dave, your two Wogglebug theory expressed in the 4/4 Digest is ingenious. If Professor Nowitall's "famous magnifying-glass" operates on strictly optical principles, then the original, unmagnified Wogglebug should still exist as an entity, separate from his highly magnified "twin." Incidentally, when H.M. Wogglebug, T.E. says in your note, <Not at all! The backward arthropod from which I was projected was but an archaic insect, whereas *I* am "Highly Magnified" and "Thoroughly Educated"!> he is overlooking the fact that the Wogglebug became educated in the three years _before_ he was magnified, so his unmagnified counterpart is also T.E. |
| 059 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Addendum | From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) |
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe at juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Addendum Correction: Dave's two Wogglebug theory is in the 4/5 Digest, not the 4/4. And speaking of the 4/5 Digest and of Wogglebugs, David's clear explanation of the technique of indicating hair color in black-and-white drawings is nicely illustrated in _Land_, in Neill's "A Highly Magnified History" chapter drawing of the school children viewing the just-magnified Wogglebug. |
| 060 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 | From: DavidXOE at aol.com |
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 11:51:42 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE at aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 Robin: I think it essentially certain that Dr. Pipt and the crooked magician Mombi got the Powder of Life from are one and the same, but much less so that the latter is the same as Dr. Nikidik - for reasons expounded yesterday. Ruth: "Feminazis" is certainly a pejorative, and I haven't seen any feminists that are an eighth as Nazi-like as people like Rush Limbaugh or Bob Dornan who use that term freely. But there are some feminists - Andrea Dworkin is one name that comes to mind, though I know there are others - who go beyond the point of wanting things to be equal between the sexes to being actively anti-male. And yes, I've read the writings of those women themselves, not just the descriptions of them from their opponents. (Naomi Wolf's THE BEAUTY MYTH, for instance, while making a lot of valid points, to me spoiled its argument by attributing to conspiracy what is much more easily explained by the overall flow of social trends.) It seems necessary to explain why Jinjur's house was deserted when Woot and companions arrived there in TIN WOODMAN if Jinjur was still married. Maybe, since the stop was only for a few hours, his "journey" was nothing more than a tramp to the nearest village for a loaf of bread, but he was gone for some reason. And it seems odd that the Scarecrow, who claims to be a good friend of Jinjur's, wouldn't remark on his absence as well as hers when they arrive and there's nobody home. If Dr. Pipt just moved out of the Gillikin country, why did he leave some of the Powder of Life behind for Dyna to find? I think his move had to be of the highly urgent sort that left the impression that he had been killed, and that required him to abandon all his possessions except what he was wearing - and that the necessity arose while he was away from his home, or surely he'd have taken his best magical invention with him. (There's probably a story in this, if someone hasn't already written it.) Gordon: I've read THE RITUALS OF DINNER, but I'd forgotten that the introduction of the four-tine fork was as late as mid-19th century. (I read it not long after it appeared.) The fork itself was fairly recent (14-15th century time frame, IIRC), and wasn't really practical for eating things like beans until much later. One minor addition, though - the legitimate use of the knife, in etiquette books of a century ago, wasn't entirely limited to cutting. It was also correctly used for spreading butter, jam, pate, and the like (although in really fancy establishments there were special knives for these purposes). However, it should never enter the mouth, and shouldn't be used to push food around either. Incidentally, since the Wizard probably left America in the1840s, he might have missed the "fork revolution" . An interesting question is why Glinda and her spies thought it was odd that he ate beans with a knife - had the "fork revolution" started in Oz? Craig: I'm not sure that blondes were considered more beautiful in 1904. I know the "Gibson girls" were considered the epitome of female beauty at roughly that time, and they were almost invariably dark-haired. In any case, red poppies would look a lot better on a brunette, if Neill insisted on the poppies (which, IIRC, are never mentioned in the text of any FF book). Dave: It must be pointed out that the Thorough Education that the Woggle-bug got was acquired when he was a tiny bug; the High Magnification came later. But is there still a tiny bug, somewhere in or around Professor Nowitall's schoolhouse, with a Thorough Education? Normally when something is projected onto a screen, the original is unaffected... David Hulan |
| 061 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> |
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 22:42:25 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <tylerjones at compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Robin: I believe that the evidence you mentioned is in _Road_. The Tin Woodman mentions that the inventor of the powder of life was a crooked sorcerer who fell off a precipice and was killed. Depsite this, the crooked magician who makes the Powder of Life shows up alive and well two books later. This has caused some people to speculate that Pipt and Nikidik are the same person. Nikidik faked his own death, moved to the Blue Forest of the Munchkin country, and changed his name. Columbo: Oh, There is just one more thing... If Pipt and Nikidik were the same person, then Pipt would also be the one who invented the wishing pills. Since these are extremely powerful, it seems reasonable to assume that Pipt would have some around his house and he could have used those to disenchant Margolotte and Unc Nunkie immediately instead of sending Ojo off on a trip from which he would probably never return. He never even mentioned them. This leads me to beleive that Pipt did not use or mention the pills because he never knew about them. As for the seeming amazing coincidence about the crooked sorcerer dying, perhaps the Tin Woodman was referring to Pipt after all, who did fake his death for some reason, only to turn up later. Or it's posible that Pipt and Nikidik knew each other, went on an adventure, and met up with an accident that crippled them both. The possibilities for new Oz books are endless here... David: I once theorized that the early versions of Pipt's Powder of Life was not quite up to snuff, and so needed to incantation to help it along. Later, when Pipt refined his technique. the powder was more powerful and did not need the extra magic. --Tyler Jones |
| 062 [Return to index] | Subject: ozzy digest | From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> |
| 063 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com> |
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:25:01 -0700 From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com> Subject: Oz Earl: Interesting point. The key, of course, is whether Professor Nowitall's Device is purely an "opticalizer" or does it actually magnify the source? This is similar to the discussion about Tip/Ozma. --Tyler Jones |
| 064 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 | From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu |
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:40:44 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi at cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 I thought Woggebug was actually transported up to the screen in a magnified form by some magical means, since no mention is made of his counterpart still in the room. Scott |
| 065 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 | From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com> |
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 23:00:05 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 >David: Tourmaline comes in a red variety (Rubellite). Perhaps that's what Baum was thinking.< It's possible that was the only type of tourmaline Baum had ever seen and he assumed all tourmalines were red. Melody Grandy |
| 066 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 | From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com> |
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 23:00:26 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <harmonyarts at compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-05-97 Tyler: >I am working under the assumption that at this time the Woodman was still living in The old castle of the WWW. According to the non-FF _Tin Castle_, the tin castle is Built soon after this story.< In (I think) Road to Oz, the Tin Woodman says he had his new tin castle built because the WWW's (stone?) castle was damp and likely to rust him. Melody Grandy |
| 067 [Return to index] | Subject: H.M. Wogglebug, T.E., of Oz | From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> |
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 00:23:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> Subject: H.M. Wogglebug, T.E., of Oz 2) Dave, I could see H.M. Wogglebug, T.E. being akin to straw pulled from a picture by Jinjur, though I find myself wondering whether 'real' wogglebugs are intelligent at all. Insects don't seem to be any smarter in Oz than they are in this world. (Prof. Wogglebug's memory of events before his magnification poses no difficulty; other vivified beings, such as the Scarecrow, Benny, Crunch, and Humpy, remember things that happened to them before they came to life.) On the other hand, Prof. Wogglebug looks more like a vertebrate than an insect (noncompound eyes, four limbs, no exoskeleton), so wogglebugs might just be tiny mammals, which would be naturally intelligent in Oz. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman at ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire |
| 068 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Things | From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com> |
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 97 01:25:08
From: Dave Hardenbrook <DaveH47 at delphi.com>
Subject: Ozzy Things
TODAY'S BCF QUESTION:
One thing about _Land_ is that it develops Jellia's character, portraying
her as wonderfully sassy and mischievous!...My question is, why was this not
carried through in subsequent books...Or are there some which I haven't read
in which she is depicted as she was in _Land_?
Jellia: Not that *I* remember...I've had to wait for *you* Dave to portray
me as I am! :) :)
-- Dave
|
| 069 [Return to index] | Subject: oz digest | From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> |
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 09:38:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: oz digest Earl Abbe: I misplaced a quote mark in my comment yesterday, and it came out sounding confusing, so I'll repeat that I suspect that Professor Nowitall's "famous magnifying-glass" did not operate "on strictly optical principles." It sounds more like something that deserved the old name of "magic lantern. Dave Hardenbrook: Jellia in Thompson's "Ozoplaning" is not mischievous, but is sassy -- in fact, is the story's heroine. Ruth Berman |
| 070 [Return to index] | Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 | From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com> |
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:37:19 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-97 Ruth: It's true that Tip claims to remember that Mombi had said that Nikidik was the name of the crooked magician she had visited, but in fact Mombi never said any such thing. I think Tip was just assuming that the two magicians were the same. Actually, there are three Neill pictures of Ozma as a blonde in LAND - pages 277, 278, and 287 in the BoW edition. There are a few others through the FF where her hair looks relatively light rather than its usual black, but I doubt we should draw any major inferences from this. (For instance, there's the picture of her near the end of TIK-TOK, where she and Dorothy and Betsy are watching Hank and the Sawhorse "shaking hands". All three of them seem to have similarly-colored hair. That's one of the few illos of Ozma without poppies, too.) David Hulan (though now that my E-mail address is my name, I might not need to sign every time) |
| 071 [Return to index] | Subject: Oz | From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com> |
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 08:54:52 -0700 From: Tyler Jones <Tyler at apprentice.com> Subject: Oz Pipt/Nikidik: Is is reasonable to suppose that Pipt invented the pills, thought they were useless, and hid them away. Overall, I suppose, the evidence seems to lean in the direction of them both being the same, but I'll wait until someone writes a story about this with a good explanation. Aaron, his counterpart may not have been noticed. Clearly, the Wogglebug believes himself to be one and only, but the little one may still be there. I still lean to the theory that the Wogglebug was actaully moved to the screen, since it is less likely that he could have stepped off the screen if he was only an image. Jellia: Surely the most popular of the minor characters in the FF. She played a sizeable role in _Ozoplaning_, but I can't remember much about how she was portrayed. --Tyler Jones |
| 072 [Return to index] | Subject: _Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz_ | From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> |
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 22:55:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" <adelman at ymail.yu.edu> Subject: _Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz_ 2) Dave, Jellia Jamb gets a significant role in _Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz_ (which strangely gets worse with each rereading). Interestingly enough, Nick Chopper's character gets strangely butchered... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman at ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire |
| 073 [Return to index] | Subject: Ozzy Digest | From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com> |
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 23:18:21 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geociti |