Day 1 - Betsy's birthday - hide-and-seek game begins at dusk - Ippty leaves to fetch
  the Hungry Tiger "as it was growing dark" - they return to Rash at night
  & HT spends night in palace apartment - Ippty & Irasha plot until "long
  after midnight"
Day 2 - Hungry Tiger locked in jail yard in morning - meets singer "toward
  evening" & hides him at moonrise - night in jail yard
Day 3 - Betsy meets Carter Green before breakfast - they arrive in Rash in AM and meet
  Tiger - barber thrown to Tiger in afternoon - Reddy thrown to Tiger "as the first
  stars twinkled out" - they escape through tunnel - night in fields of down -
  Ozma kidnaped by Atmos Fere after breakfast
Day 4 - Betsy's party has breakfast in Down Town - visit Gnome King's cavern for lunch
  - exit via Fire Fall - Tiger taken by Giants - night by Immense City's walls
Day 5 - Reddy enters Immense City after breakfast - rescues Hungry Tiger at night -
  they leave Immense City at midnight ("just as the clock tolled twelve") -
  Ozma punctures Atmos with a pin - they are rescued by Rusty Ore, caught in storm
Day 6 - Two parties meet in AM - conquest of Rash - return to Oz

Note: There's a night missing in Ozma's travels with Atmos Fere. She spends two days
in the air with him (the day Betsy meets Carter and the day she visits Down Town and
Kaliko) and sticks Atmos with a pin on the third day. There's no mention in the text
that she spends a night either with Rusty Ore or with Atmos on the ground, but in order
to make her rendezvous with Betsy's party come out right, I assume that the storm
lasted all night.

From: RMorris306 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:38:13 EST
Subject: Hungry Tiger of Oz, et al
 
     Well, since we seem to be starting on HUNGRY TIGER, I've just reread it...
 
     WARNING: THIS REVIEW CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR "HUNGRY TIGER" (as well as
OZMA, RINKITINK, and several other FF Oz books)
 
...and, on the whole, it read better than I remembered. It's another of those
books that takes place almost entirely outside Oz...almost entirely in Ev, in
fact, for the first time since Ev was introduced in OZMA. Thompson seems to
consider Ev a magical country almost indistinguishable from Oz, complete with
arrested aging (she once referred to Evardo as "a boy king," even though he'd
have been a young man by then if Ev's people aged at the normal rate) and
lots of little countries with strange inhabitants. But, except for the aging
(which Baum came up with relatively late, to explain why Dorothy and the
other children didn't grow up), Ev was that way from the beginning, with its
Wheelers and Nomes and dinner-pail trees and strange inhabitants like
Princess Langwidere and Tik-Tok...more like Oz than Oz itself was at that
point.
 
     Even the talking animals were ambiguous. Billina could talk as soon as
she arrived in Ev, which is more than Toto...at least as far as we knew at
that point...could do when he came to Oz in WIZARD. But Langwidere considered
that unusual for a hen, and later, in RINKITINK, the Wizard considered it
unusual (and proof that he was an enchanted human being) that Bilbil could
talk in the Nome King's domain, underneath Ev. So could Quox, but he was from
a magical country...besides which, dragons can frequently talk in fantasy,
even when more conventional animals can't. And since the only animal in this
book is the Hungry Tiger himself, who came from Oz (and, in fact, was IN Ev
when Dorothy...and the readers...first met him), one can hardly say that
Thompson's Ev is inconsistent with Baum's.
 
     Ironically enough, Thompson's Oz, though only seen at the very beginning
and the very end of the book, has a few inconsistencies this time. Nobody,
even Baum, ever seemed to accept completely the idea that money wasn't used
in Oz...though Betsy's giving Carter a ring in exchange for an apple has
overtones of the older barter system that Baum implied once or twice, and
quite possibly that consideration was what led Thompson to place that
capitalist paradise, Down Town (and maybe the whole book) in Ev. Six decades
later Viido Polikarpus and Tappan King would use the same name in a very
different children's fantasy bearing that title, for a surprisingly similar
place. Both were underground cities fantasising, satirizing, and stranglely
reflecting the real-life urban environment...specifically New York for
Polikarpus and King's Down Town, more general in Thompson's, possibly
inspired more by her native Philadelphia. (There still seems to be a lot of
New York in Thompson's Down Town...I'm not sure how much contact she had with
that city, living in Philadelphia and dealing mostly with a Chicago
publisher, but it's hard to believe she hadn't been there and been...one way
or the other...impressed.) And both Down Towns had underground tunnels
leading into a realm of scheming gnomes...
 
     One of Thompson's greatest weaknesses is her haste in getting her
characters into places where things happen...compare how long it took Dorothy
and Billina to get to Ev and hook up with their companions in OZMA to how
long it took Betsy and Carter Green. The Hungry Tiger's purpose in coming to
Rash is imaginative, and entirely in keeping with his personality as Baum
envisioned it--particularly in the Little Wizard story of him and the
Cowardly Lion; perhaps also an inspiration for Thompson's otherwise
uncharacteristic version of the latter character in HIS own book. But in
Betsy's and Carter Green's journey there, one device after another...the
Winding Road, the quick sandals...is introduced with no purpose or
development save to get them to Rash. When I first read the book, I'd thought
Thompson was doing something relatively clever, and that the shoes would turn
out to be the Silver Shoes that had dropped off Dorothy's feet at the end of
WIZARD. Only a moment's thought made me realize that wasn't the case (they'd
hardly have been wrapped in newspaper), but it would have added a bit more
thought to a hastily-contrived journey.
 
     And yet...
 
     Though Thompson didn't specifically say so, she once or twice seems close
to implying that the magic of the rubies themselves is at work to bring them
back to their rightful owner. At least, that's the only reasonable
explanation for what's otherwise one of the wildest collections of arbitrary
coincidences I can recall in an Oz book...that Carter's ruby was responsible
for the road and the sandals sending him in the direction of Rash, that it
continued to lead Reddy and his party in the direction of the Nome King who
had the second ruby, and that the one Atmos Fere had brought him to Earth not
once but twice, right in the vicinity of Reddy and the other two. As more
than one poster here has pointed out, Prince Reddy's three rubies were almost
certainly inspired by Prince Inga's three pearls in RINKITINK...but Thompson
took them off in a different direction and added, apart from their possible
magical influence, new factors. If the pink country of Rash seems like a
washed-out Oz kingdom (in the Quadling country, of course...possibly it HAD
been there in an earlier draft before Thompson realized that Glinda would
hardly tolerate the likes of Irasha in the country she ruled), the three
rubies are a more intense variant of Inga's pink pearl. Unlike Inga's pearls
(which worked for whoever happened to have them, including Nikobob, Zella,
and Rinkitink), the rubies worked only for their rightful owner. (The ruby
that provided protection in the air didn't prevent Atmos Fere from being
punctured by Ozma; and if they'd worked for others, Irasha surely would have
kept them rather than throwing them away.) But they had the same ability to
protect those touched by the possessor as well; just as Inga's pearl
protected Rinkitink and Bilbil as long as he was touching them, so did
Reddy's rubies protect Betsy, Carter, and the Hungry Tiger when they escaped
from Ev.
 
     I'm glad to see Betsy in a starring role in an Oz book, which she'd never
had since her first appearance in TIK-TOK and never would again, at least in
the FF. Although the oldest of the three American girls Baum brought to Oz,
she's generally been considered the least interesting...even in TIK-TOK,
surrounded as she was by a literal army of other characters, she rarely had a
chance to shine. And it's been noted before that, even though she was a
single woman making her own living, Thompson had more of a tendency to put
characters in stereotyped sex roles than Baum did. While Baum had had no
trouble giving Dorothy more initiative than Zeb, or Trot more than
Button-Bright, once Reddy came on the scene he tended to be the more
prominent of the two children. Carter Green himself was one of Thompson's
more successful Baum-style creations; despite his odd appearance he was
intelligent and resourceful and provided adult support to the pair, much like
Cap'n Bill or the Scarecrow.
 
     Immense City and its Big Wigs were another highly imaginative society
that raises some questions; why are the trees, pigeons, and (presumably) real
kittens all giant-sized, when the people (without their wigs) aren't? Was the
city founded by real giants and later taken over by normal Ev people with
their Big Wigs? Who invented them? Like the origin of Princess Langwidere's
extra heads, another interesting question in Oz (actually Ev) history that
someone may explain (or, for all I know, may have explained) one day. Elma is
a rather strange character for an Oz book; it's very rare for children, as
potential identification characters for the main readership, to be treated so
unsympathetically. (Even Kiki Aru in MAGIC, the only remotely "bad" child
seen in a Baum Oz book, was much more sympathetically treated.) But Thompson
may well have encountered enough real-life spoiled rich brats to know that
they can sometimes make life miserable for everyone...other children
included. Atmos Fere is a bit reminiscent of the Loons of Loonville in TIN
WOODMAN, but on the whole a well-developed character; erudite, funny, and not
bad at all once Ozma...and the reader...gets to know him.
 
     The ending is a bit curious from a suspension-of-disbelief standpoint. If
the Hungry Tiger is so relieved that no one will apparently know the reason
he came to Rash, why was Thompson herself allowed to tell it in the book? For
that matter, why would it have been so reprehensible? The Ozma who allowed
Mombi to be melted so cavalierly (without even the trial granted to Eureka in
DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD) in her last book wouldn't have been likely to object
to the Hungry Tiger performing similar executions of (what he had every
reason to believe were) dangerous criminals. (Especially since, when push
came to shove, he refused to eat anybody anyway.) This time, thankfully, Ozma
is back to her real self, the Baum princess who would never think of harming
even the wickedest of creatures...and, as such, I thought the final fate of
the villains, Irasha and Ippty, was perfect.
 
     On a final note, Thompson seems to be very fond of quasi-Arabian
characters and settings...Rash being a prominent example of a trend that also
includes Mudge and its ruler Mustafa, the Arabian peddler in WISHING HORSE,
Humpty Bumpty the camel from Ha Ho Humbad in ENCHANTED ISLAND and of course
the Red Jinn, one of her favorite characters, who she featured prominently in
three books (four if you include YANKEE). Perhaps her intention was to add
some ethnic diversity to Nonestica...she also gave us the ersatz Chinese
Silver Islanders in ROYAL BOOK and the Gypsies in OJO...but she seems less
inspired by the real Middle East than by the Arabian Nights. (Or at least, by
the expurgated versions most kids of her generation, and many in mine, grew
up on...I doubt either she or her publisher would have included anything like
the sexuality found in the original!)
 
     In short, I found this one of Thompson's better, and better-plotted books.
 
END OF SPOILERS
 
Rich Morrissey

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14-2000
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:57:50 GMT
 
Rich Morrissey:
 >     Immense City and its Big Wigs were another highly imaginative society
 >that raises some questions; why are the trees, pigeons, and (presumably)
 >real
 >kittens all giant-sized, when the people (without their wigs) aren't? Was
 >the
 >city founded by real giants and later taken over by normal Ev people with
 >their Big Wigs?
 
Strangely enough, I had thought of that same possibility before I had read
that far in your message.
 
 >Elma is
 >a rather strange character for an Oz book; it's very rare for children, as
 >potential identification characters for the main readership, to be treated
 >so
 >unsympathetically. (Even Kiki Aru in MAGIC, the only remotely "bad" child
 >seen in a Baum Oz book, was much more sympathetically treated.) But
 >Thompson
 >may well have encountered enough real-life spoiled rich brats to know that
 >they can sometimes make life miserable for everyone...other children
 >included.
 
Elma might have been the first spoiled rich kid to have a significant role
in an Oz book.  Inga was a prince, but he didn't act spoiled, really.
Rinkitink and Kabumpo were essentially spoiled rich characters, but they
weren't children (although Rinkitink often acted like one).
 
 >     On a final note, Thompson seems to be very fond of quasi-Arabian
 >characters and settings...Rash being a prominent example of a trend that
 >also
 >includes Mudge and its ruler Mustafa, the Arabian peddler in WISHING HORSE,
 >Humpty Bumpty the camel from Ha Ho Humbad in ENCHANTED ISLAND and of course
 >the Red Jinn, one of her favorite characters, who she featured prominently
 >in
 >three books (four if you include YANKEE).
 
There's also Samandra.  I believe I already mentioned this during the
_Cowardly Lion_ discussion, but both _Cowardly Lion_ and _Hungry Tiger_
start out with a quasi-Turkish ruler wanting to capture one of the famous
big cats of Oz.  Of course, in the Lion's book, Mustafa's attempts to
capture the cat constituted the major plot, while the Pasha's capture of the
Tiger is only a jumping-off point for the book's main plot.
 
Speaking of the Pasha, what IS his name?  My edition (Del Rey) calls him
both "Irasha" and "Irashi."  Is that true of all versions of the book?
 
Nathan

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 00 10:41:32 CST
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: colors/wizard in oz
 
Rich Morrissey: Enjoyed your comments on "Hungry Tiger" -- like you,
I enjoyed seeing Betsy get a lead role. I think I'll hold off on any
further comments, though, as Dave hadn't actually set a start-date for
discussing the book yet, and so there may be people who would be
interested in the discussion who have not yet read it and plan to once
given a deadline.
 
Ruth Berman

From: Tyler Jones <tylerj at apprentice.com>
Subject: Oz
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:46:12 -0700

Rubies of the Tiger:
The idea that the Rash Rubies are acting behind the scenes to restore
themselves to their rightful owner is interesting. It's similar to the One
Ring from _LOTR_.
 
Tyler Jones

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:25:19 -0600
From: David Hulan <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-14 thru 23-2000
 
3/14:
Rich:
Interesting comments on _Hungry Tiger_. I think it's valid to assume that
the rubies were indeed trying to make connections with Reddy, either by
bringing themselves to him or him to them. This is a fairly common element
in fantasy; a notable example is the One Ring in Tolkien, which is always
trying to get back to Sauron.
 
I remember when I first read the book as a kid I liked the fact that Betsy
had a starring role, though upon later rereadings as an adult I still find
her less interesting than Dorothy or Trot (or Peg Amy or Polychrome or
Jellia or Jenny Jump, to name a few other young female leads in various
books). She really doesn't do much but go along for the ride - as she did
in _Tik-Tok_.
 
I rate this book around the middle of Thompson's oeuvre; not as good as
most of her later books (_Ojo_ through _Silver Princess_, except for maybe
_Captain Salt_) but better than any of the earlier ones except for _Lost
King_ and _Yellow Knight_.
 
3/19:
Tyler:
I see you saw the same similarity between the Rash Rubies and the One Ring
that I did. I'd forgotten that when I was commenting to Rich.
 
David Hulan

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-23-2000
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:22:33 GMT
 
Ken Shepherd:
 >******WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "HUNGRY TIGER" AHEAD********
 >
 >Day 1 - Betsy's birthday
 
In _Masquerade_, a book published by Books of Wonder/Emerald City Press,
Betsy states that her birthday is on Halloween.  While this is
non-canonical, and might not be accepted by everyone, accepting it would
mean that this story took place from 31 October to 5 November (which would
mean that Reddy was restored to the throne on Guy Fawkes Day, right?).
 
Nathan

Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:53:58 -0400
From: "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenned at bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-2000
 
David Hulan wrote:
> Interesting comments on _Hungry Tiger_. I think it's valid to assume that
 > the rubies were indeed trying to make connections with Reddy, either by
 > bringing themselves to him or him to them. This is a fairly common element
 > in fantasy; a notable example is the One Ring in Tolkien, which is always
 > trying to get back to Sauron.
 
Or Sean O'Lochlain's bag, which arrives in his prison cell a few hours
after he does, through a chain of bystanders seeing it, thinking, "Gee,
that doesn't belong there, I'll just take it with me," and then
forgetting it.
 
--
-John W. Kennedy
-rri0189 at ibm.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays.  -- Charles Williams

From: Ozmama at aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 23:39:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-06-2000
 
John:<< Or Sean O'Lochlain's bag, which arrives in his prison cell a few hours
  after he does, through a chain of bystanders seeing it, thinking, "Gee,
  that doesn't belong there, I'll just take it with me," and then
  forgetting it. >>

     Oh, aaarghh!  I have the feeling that I "should" recognize that name,
but I don't.  Who's Sean O'Lochlain, John?
 
Ruth, what's happening with your Hungry Tiger commentary?  It came through
(again) with no content, just header stuff.  I'd like to read what you wrote!
                                         --Robin

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:28:28 -0400
From: "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at compuserve.com>
Subject: HUNGRY TIGER impressions
 
Just as GRAMPA is in many ways a polished retelling of KABUMPO, HUNGRY
TIGER seems like an improvement on COWARDLY LION. As in that earlier book,
Thompson opens her story with an ill-tempered, ill-behaved tyrant inspired
by her images of Muslim societies, then an evil-minded advisor suggesting
the title feline is the solution to that ruler's problem.

         Both COWARDLY LION and HUNGRY TIGER show the title character
sneaking out of the Emerald City to do something carnivorous that he knows
Ozma would disapprove of, and both animals end up being carried around
roughly by giants. That belittling experience seems to be part of their
punishment for transgressive thoughts. For young readers, they get to see
these nice/scary characters cut down to a sympathetic size.
 
Rich Morrissey wrote:
<<the pink country of Rash seems like a washed-out Oz kingdom (in the
Quadling country, of course...possibly it HAD been there in an earlier
draft before Thompson realized that Glinda would hardly tolerate the likes
of Irasha in the country she ruled)>>
 
I don't think the pinkness has a Quadling link. I think Thompson chose it
to reflect the usual color of a rash (on light-skinned people, at least).
She reports the Rashes are "always breaking out in spots" [21], and
mentions a "spotted turban" and "a few speckled bears" [22]. The Hungry
Tiger doesn't know where Rash is, but knows it's a "measly little kingdom"
[40-1]!

         I'm not sure the Oz Club map shows Rash where Thompson meant it to
be. She was using the TIK-TOK map, which of course makes every east/west
direction suspicious. (This book also shows signs Thompson reread TIK-TOK
for notes on Betsy's earlier adventure and speech pattern.) Rash is
specified to be "in the southwestern country of Ev" [21]. Haff and Martin
chose to place it at the southernmost part of the eastern end, but it might
belong in the easternmost part of the southern end. On the TIK-TOK map the
Nome Kingdom is shown as next to Ev, not below it. If Thompson saw them as
separate, Ev's southern end is off Oz's Oogaboo corner. If she saw the
Nomes and neighboring creatures as living under Ev, the southern end of the
surface country might be across from the Yips. The other adventures seem to
take place in that region. Down Town is near the "Southern end" of the Nome
Kingdom [135]. Atmos Fere and Ozma stumble into the "great rolling country
of the east" [204]--probably a version of the rolling land Guph passed over
in EMERALD CITY, which showed up on the TIK-TOK map below and to the right
of the Nome Kingdom as "Ripple Land." Near the book's end, the whole party
heads "east" (for which we must read "laterally"), not south, toward the
Deadly Desert and find Rash [244-5].

         This being a Thompson book, of course, nothing's that consistent.
Most confusing to me is how Betsy and Carter end up in the middle of a
large desert--nothing in sight but sand [63]. They head "toward the south,"
seemingly aiming for the Emerald City [64]. They reach the Quick Sand,
however, Carter then "bringing the cart about" [66]. Betsy finds the quick
sandals, and those start to carry Carter along--not toward the north, where
he'd been pointed, but again heading "for the quick sand," which must be
south [68]. Then they pass over "the edge of the Deadly Desert" and on to
Rash [68-9].
 
Rich Morrissey wrote:
<<Immense City and its Big Wigs were another highly imaginative society
that raises some questions; why are the trees, pigeons, and (presumably)
real kittens all giant-sized, when the people (without their wigs) aren't?
Was the city founded by real giants and later taken over by normal Ev
people with their Big Wigs?>>
 
Good questions. Reading this episode after I saw your query, I came up with
the opposite idea. The flora and fauna of the area were gigantic naturally,
and some ordinary people with big ambitions developed the Big Wigs as a way
to live safely and comfortably in that environment. Since the town may be
near the Nomes, Phanfasms, Growleywogs, and so on, living large could have
other protective benefits.
 
J. L. Bell                  JnoLBell at compuserve.com

Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 22:08:24 -0400
From: "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at compuserve.com>
Subject: HUNGRY for more
 
More HUNGRY TIGER thoughts:

         In her preface, Thompson alludes to the art atop that page,
indicating she wrote it after the book had been laid out. But it's dated
even later. The Oz Club's 2000 calendar says HUNGRY TIGER was published on
28 June 1926, and this author's note is dated July! (For comparison, the
previous book, LOST KING, was issued on 1 July 1925.)

         Even more interesting, Thompson writes in this preface, "And what
do you s'pose has been happening there [in Oz] now? 'Another war?' you
ask." Why would she think war was at the top of her readers' minds? She
hasn't written about a war in Oz, and Baum's last one was in GLINDA.
Thompson may have been thinking of the wars in TIK-TOK, which she's
obviously reread in preparation for HUNGRY TIGER [e.g., 100]. But I bet
this line was a clue that Thompson was already looking ahead to the
invasion in GNOME KING.
 
Rich Morrissey wrote:
<<One of Thompson's greatest weaknesses is her haste in getting her
characters into places where things happen...compare how long it took
Dorothy and Billina to get to Ev and hook up with their companions in OZMA
to how long it took Betsy and Carter Green.>>
 
I find the start for Betsy's plot to be quite jerky. Chapter 2 starts with
Betsy [29], hinting that Thompson's already chosen her young protagonist
for this book. But after removing the Hungry Tiger to Rash, she seems to
struggle to get Betsy there too, as you noted. First Betsy chases down
Carter Green--then the action slows, with no conflict for either character
in sight. Then the Winding Road carries them off to the desert--and they
head in circles. Each move away grinds to a halt until Thompson imagines
some new magical intervention. Finally, the Quick Sandals carry Carter and
his cart to Rash, the very same place where the Hungry Tiger has gone.

         "How lucky I found them," Betsy says of the Quick Sandals [67], and
that reflects how much Thompson relied on coincidence in this part of her
plot. Almost all her books depend on coincidences, of course. Usually,
however, they're spread out enough (as in finding the Rash rubies) and the
pacing is fast enough (as when a pigeon happens to grab Reddy) that they
aren't so obvious. Here the lack of anything interesting going on makes
those coincidences stand out.
 
Rich Morrissey wrote:
<<I'm glad to see Betsy in a starring role in an Oz book, which she'd never
had since her first appearance in TIK-TOK and never would again, at least
in the FF. . . . While Baum had had no trouble giving Dorothy more
initiative than Zeb, or Trot more than Button-Bright, once Reddy came on
the scene he tended to be the more prominent of the two children.>>
 
Furthermore, both Ozma and Betsy do the stereotypical cowering-girl thing
while the males (Reddy, Carter, and the Hungry Tiger) fight. Even though
Betsy has told Reddy, "I'll help you" [246], and Ozma's been almost as
vicious as we've ever seen her in popping Atmos Fere, during this book's
final battle all they do is hold Reddy's crown for him [249]. This is the
clearest example in my mind of Thompson's adherence to traditional gender
roles.
         [I must acknowledge that Reddy's very well prepared for this fight,
even beyond his Y chromosome. He has the Rash rubies to protect him. He has
the big wig, and Thompson has established its power. And, as chapters 16 &
17 show, he has the gumption and gymnastic ability of an action-adventure
hero. HUNGRY TIGER was published at the athletic heyday of Douglas
Fairbanks, Sr., and Reddy acts like a miniature version of him.]

         Thompson notes that Betsy's from Oklahoma, only recently made a
state when she came to Oz in TIK-TOK and still quite rural in 1926. She
reproduces the down-home speech pattern Baum gave Betsy [162]. But she also
says the girl is familiar with urban "hucksters" from "old times in the
States" [57], visited a "down town...in Oklahoma" [111, 123], and "had
often been in subways in the United States" [129]. As I've noted before,
that implies that Betsy had lived outside Oklahoma for a significant
stretch, even before she went to sea. One other detail: Thompson shows
Betsy "helping herself capably to a spring chicken that was turning slowly
on a spit" [113], which may bolster Ruth Berman's suggestion that she'd
worked as a servant back in the States.

         Thompson makes other statements about Betsy that don't square with
what Baum showed us. She says the girl had "many adventures with kings"
[72], which seems overstated, especially when compared to Dorothy. (Indeed,
by strict definition of a king, I recall Betsy meeting only Ruggedo,
Kaliko, the Lavender Bear, and the unusual fairy kings on the other side of
the world.) Though Betsy met Guph in TIK-TOK, in this book she recognizes
him only as "a gnome" [141]. And she doesn't miss dear old Hank until page
162. But at least her fondness for onions explains her quick friendship
with Carter Green.
 
Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<Speaking of the Pasha, what IS his name?  My edition (Del Rey) calls him
both "Irasha" and "Irashi."  Is that true of all versions of the book?>>
 
For the first coupla chapters Thompson calls that ruler Irasha [20-2]. That
rhymes with his title pasha, his brother Asha [85], and his cook Hasha
[16]. After page 44 she switches consistently to Irashi, which might have
been inspired by the words Iraqi and Irani (the latter preserved only by
crossword-puzzle-makers).

         Thompson tells us that Asha, Reddy's father, retired "to an unknown
state to study radio" [85], leaving the throne vulnerable to his Claudian
brother. In PURPLE PRINCE, Randy becomes king because his father also
decides to spend less time with his family. Oedipally satisfying as that
might be, I'm not sure it's much of an improvement over Daddy dying, a
situation Thompson seems to be trying to avoid.

         Thompson clearly plans for the restoration of Asha's line: in
chapter 1 she tells us Irashi "seized the throne by treachery," and the
people held out hope that the "rightful ruler should be restored" [21].
Later, however, we learn that Evered has been deposed "for a year" only
[106]. Irashi "had the little prince seized and hidden away" [92]--but
obviously not very well. Fizzenpop simply stumbles across the boy "many
months" later in a cobbler's shop. What had Reddy been doing all that year?
Unlike Tip, he retains his memory of his royal identity. Unlike Tandy, "his
life with the cobbler's children" is never described as being restricted
[107]. Yet it must have been. Otherwise, Reddy would have been easier to
find and probably (given what we see of his personality) would have been
trying to regain his throne.

         Here's the only way I can put these statements together to make a
logical year. Irashi had the cobbler keep Reddy a prisoner busy working in
the back of his shop. On spotting the polish-stained prince, Fizzenpop is
able to overawe or fool the cobbler into letting him take the boy back to
the palace. But the cobbler then goes to Irashi and warns his patron of
Reddy's return. The pasha and Ippty find the prince in the palace
(Fizzenpop must be even worse at hiding him, though able to hide his own
tracks); they decide that it's no longer safe simply to hide the boy, and
besides they now have this wonderful tiger, so they toss Reddy into the
courtyard to be eaten. And that's when we came in.
 
J. L. Bell                  JnoLBell at compuserve.com

From: Ozmama at aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 22:29:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-2000
 
Ruth Berman wrote the following comments:
<<
  The hungry tiger messages I sent before evidently didn't get through. Here
they are again.

  Ken Shepherd: thanks for the day-listing on "Hungry Tiger." (Dave H -- maybe
you'd better go ahead and list an official start-date for sometime soon for
discussing it!)
 
  Although Dave hasn't actually set a start-date for discussing "Hungry
Tiger," the discussions that have already been posted put me in a mood to
re-read it, and having re-read it to comment. (I don't think anything I have
to say will be a "spoiler" for those who haven't already read it, though.)
Like the others who've been commenting, I enjoyed it. In addition to liking
to see Betsy used as a fairly important character, it was fun to see the
Hungry Tiger getting a title role. It occurs to me that RPT's love of animals
was a factor in her choice of Baum-characters-to-use-in-title-roles -- she
did Cowardly Lion and Hungry Tiger before going on to humans. Or, rather, to
humanoids, first. Another factor may have been enjoying the specifically
fantastic characters -- Nome King and Jack Pumpkinhead. And it's only after
all those that she went on to use Ojo as a title character. Also, in bringing
back characters, it was amusing to find General Guph back, now acting as
Kaliko's steward. Phyllis Karr had an article several years ago in the
"Bugle" about how the later portrayal of Kaliko as treacherous grew out of
Baum's re-write of "Rinktink" as an Oz book, in which the Nome King who would
presumably have been Roquat in the first draft could no longer be Roquat (or
even Ruggedo), and so Kaliko got stuck with the role, and so had to change in
a way that wasn't really consistent with the earlier portrayal of him. I
wonder, though, if Guph's influence (offstage in "Rinktink," but back onstage
here in "Hungry Tiger") might be suggested as a plausible cause for the
change.
 
  Patrick Maund wrote about how interesting the Down Town episode is in
"Hungry Tiger" in a "Bugle" article some years back. It's perhaps the most
striking section of the story. It occurs to me that it's another example of
Lewis Carroll's influence on RPT's work -- the fall down a hole into an even
more-than-Oz-usually pun-filled world (falling down into a field of eiderdown
outside Downtown and having light available because the sun goes down, etc.).
The kind of direct social satire presented in the episode is maybe more like
Carroll's humor than like Baum's in its rather harsh tone?
 
It's surprising to note that Neill didn't do any full page-illos for the
story (not counting the endpapers and copyright page), except the ones used
as color plates. The color plates that strike me as most interesting are the
one of Kaliko eating his mud-pie, and the one of the travellers pitching
headlong down the quite fiery looking firefall.
 
Nathan DeHoff: Suggestion of adopting "Masquerade" specification of October
31 as Betsy's birthday (thus making Reddy's accession occur on Guy Fawkes
day) -- ingenious, but there is a reference in "Hungry Tiger" (in introducing
Carter Green) to the season as springtime. Speaking of non-R&L Oz, I noticed
in looking for HT references in the "Bugle" a mention of a story by March
Laumer, "The Vegetable Man of Oz." It doesn't seem to have been reviewed, and
I'm not familiar with it. Perhaps a review in this context (or a description,
maybe) would be in order?
 
Ruth Berman>>

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:19:40 -0500
From: David Hulan <davidhulan at mail.ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-23-2000
 
J.L.:
 >         This being a Thompson book, of course, nothing's that consistent.
 
Implying that any of the other Oz authors were notably more consistent?
 
David Hulan

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-2000
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 17:30:14 GMT
 
Ruth:
 >Also, in bringing
 >back characters, it was amusing to find General Guph back, now acting as
 >Kaliko's steward. Phyllis Karr had an article several years ago in the
 >"Bugle" about how the later portrayal of Kaliko as treacherous grew out of
 >Baum's re-write of "Rinktink" as an Oz book, in which the Nome King who
 >would
 >presumably have been Roquat in the first draft could no longer be Roquat
 >(or
 >even Ruggedo), and so Kaliko got stuck with the role, and so had to change
 >in
 >a way that wasn't really consistent with the earlier portrayal of him. I
 >wonder, though, if Guph's influence (offstage in "Rinktink," but back
 >onstage
 >here in "Hungry Tiger") might be suggested as a plausible cause for the
 >change.
 
Also note that Kaliko presumably wasn't too happy with Guph, since this is
his last appearance in the series.  When Dorothy visits the Nome Kingdom in
_Wishing Horse_, Kaliko's chamberlain is a Nome named Shoofenwaller, whose
personality seems to be a better match for Kaliko's.  Note that Guph advises
outright treachery, while Shoofenwaller provides a devious way for Kaliko to
get out of helping Dorothy at all, which is more in line with what the King
wants.
 
Nathan

From: Tyler Jones <tylerj at apprentice.com>
Subject: Oz
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:44:20 -0700

John Bell Wrote:
 > (Betsy) doesn't miss dear old Hank until page 162.
This won't be the last time that Thompson has sepatated
characters that are traditionally together in Baum. Two
books later, Trot will be completely without her longtime
companion, Cap'n Bill.
 
John Bell and David Hulan:
I would say that Baum was slightly more consistent that RPT. However,
with Neill, all bets are off. As for later FF books, there are too few
to really compare.
 
Tyler Jones

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:00:46 -0500
From: David Hulan <davidhulan at mail.ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-2000
 
J.L.:
>         Even more interesting, Thompson writes in this preface, "And what
 >do you s'pose has been happening there [in Oz] now? 'Another war?' you
 >ask." Why would she think war was at the top of her readers' minds? She
 >hasn't written about a war in Oz, and Baum's last one was in GLINDA.
 >Thompson may have been thinking of the wars in TIK-TOK, which she's
 >obviously reread in preparation for HUNGRY TIGER [e.g., 100]. But I bet
 >this line was a clue that Thompson was already looking ahead to the
 >invasion in GNOME KING.
 
But there wasn't an invasion in _Gnome King_. Are you thinking of the one
in _Pirates_? In _Gnome King_ Ruggedo traveled to the EC to work mischief,
but he was alone; I wouldn't call that an invasion or a war. The first war
Thompson describes on-stage (as opposed to referring to past ones - she
does that in both _Cowardly Lion_ with regard to Mudgers' raids, and in
_Grampa_ with Grampa's numerous battles) is Mogodore's invasion in _Jack
Pumpkinhead_.
 
 >         Thompson notes that Betsy's from Oklahoma, only recently made a
 >state when she came to Oz in TIK-TOK and still quite rural in 1926.
 
It's still pretty rural even in 2000, compared to most states in the US.
 
 >         Thompson makes other statements about Betsy that don't square with
 >what Baum showed us. She says the girl had "many adventures with kings"
 >[72], which seems overstated, especially when compared to Dorothy.
 
Of course, we don't know what Betsy might have been doing in the 10-15
years she'd been in Oz that no Royal Historian happened to write about. And
Thompson may have been using "kings" loosely to mean "rulers"; in that case
you could add Queen Ann of Oogaboo, the Rose Princess, the High Coco-Lorum
of Thi, the Czarover of Herku, Coo-ee-oh, the Su-dic, Jak Horner, and
whoever was ruling the Hoppers (when she accompanied Ozma to stop their war
in _Royal Book_). And those are just the ones we know of. Still not as many
as Dorothy, but quite a lot more than the average little girl.
 
 >         Thompson tells us that Asha, Reddy's father, retired "to an unknown
 >state to study radio" [85], leaving the throne vulnerable to his Claudian
 >brother. In PURPLE PRINCE, Randy becomes king because his father also
 >decides to spend less time with his family. Oedipally satisfying as that
 >might be, I'm not sure it's much of an improvement over Daddy dying, a
 >situation Thompson seems to be trying to avoid.
 
Baum set the precedent for this, though, with the disappearance of Jol
Jemkiph Soforth and his wife that put Queen Ann on the throne of Oogaboo.
 
David Hulan
 

Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 10:36:34 -0500
From: David Hulan <davidhulan at mail.ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-2000
 
Tyler:
 >John Bell Wrote:
 > > (Betsy) doesn't miss dear old Hank until page 162.
 >This won't be the last time that Thompson has sepatated
 >characters that are traditionally together in Baum. Two
 >books later, Trot will be completely without her longtime
 >companion, Cap'n Bill.
 
True, but Trot had a significant adventure in _Lost Princess_ without Cap'n
Bill along; Betsy had never done anything important on-stage without Hank.
 
David Hulan

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:37:28 -0400
From: "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at compuserve.com>
Subject: HUNGRY for more

David Hulan asked of my comment on Thompson:
<<Implying that any of the other Oz authors were notably more consistent?>>
 
Within single books, I think everyone but Neill tended to try harder at
consistency than the plumly one.

         Jack Snow seems to have tried especially hard to be
consistent--with Baum. But he had to fudge in some ways because Baum's
books weren't consistent with each other, and he made a couple of flubs of
his own. The way Snow depicted his choice in WHO'S WHO implies he was
motivated by loyalty to Baum's vision. I recall, however, seeing quotations
from a Thompson letter to Reilly & Lee asserting control over the
characters she created, "of course." So perhaps Snow's hands were legally
tied.
 
Turning to HUNGRY TIGER, I noted some interesting connections between this
book and its predecessors. In RINKITINK Baum described "Nome" as meaning
"one who knows," and Nome kings seem to like to know what's going on above
them. Baum showed them relying on the Long-Eared Hearer, the Lookout, and a
magic spyglass. In this book Thompson invents "exspectacles" [135], though
Kaliko's wizard doesn't seem to make a new pair after Carter breaks this
one [152].

         The Wizard was experimenting with Dr. Nikidik's wishing pills in
LOST KING. In HUNGRY TIGER he's got his own "new wishing powders" that he's
"anxious to try" [34-5], and one of them turns out to work for Ozma [202].
Presumably he later packaged those powders in pill form, making "the
Wizard's wishing pills" that figure in so many more of Thompson's books. A
bit of reverse engineering, perhaps?
 
David Hulan wrote:
<<But there wasn't an invasion in _Gnome King_.>>
 
In the early chapters of that book--the part Thompson was most likely to
have been mapping out or writing as she drafted the foreword to HUNGRY
TIGER--Ruggedo speaks to his "general" Peter about using his "army of
gnomes" to conquer Oz. Sounds like an impending invasion to me!
 
David Hulan wrote:
<<we don't know what Betsy might have been doing in the 10-15 years she'd
been in Oz that no Royal Historian happened to write about.>>
 
I presume the Royal Historians wrote about the most adventurous events in
Oz available to them. Betsy figures in rather few of the recorded events,
usually as one of a large group and under the protection of a more powerful
person. Thompson's "many adventures" remark [72] seems to be the only hint
she went on truly adventurous trips we don't know about.
 
David Hulan wrote of kings in retirement and seclusion:
<<Baum set the precedent for this, though, with the disappearance of Jol
Jemkiph Soforth and his wife that put Queen Ann on the throne of Oogaboo.>>
 
Queen Ann seems to be significantly older than Reddy or Randy, and older
than the intended Oz book readers, so I don't think her parents'
disappearance would be as worrisome to kids as theirs. On the other hand,
getting parents out of the way is a constant challenge for children's book
writers.
 
Tyler Jones wrote:
<<This won't be the last time that Thompson has sepatated characters that
are traditionally together in Baum. Two books later, Trot will be
completely without her longtime companion, Cap'n Bill.>>
 
In both cases, the little girl is carried away from the Emerald City by
forces beyond her control. When we get to GIANT HORSE, I'll be curious to
see if and when Trot voices any wish that Cap'n Bill were with her.
 
Ruth Berman wrote:
<<It's surprising to note that Neill didn't do any full page-illos for the
story (not counting the endpapers and copyright page), except the ones used
as color plates.>>
 
As in LOST KING (which had one full-page exception that I theorized Neill
drew for another job), all the illustrations in the text of HUNGRY TIGER
are the same size. That probably let Neill and the layout team work faster.

         Also as in LOST KING, Neill worked every chapter-opening
illustration into an unusually shaped frame. In this book he only once
breaks that frame, to show speed [70]. Most often these drawings have solid
black backgrounds--the "negative space" described in the BUGLE article you
quoted earlier. Dark-haired Ozma merits the only exception [194].

         Neill provides a number of nice facial portraits in this book, I
thought, with lots of character: 49, 80, 91, 190. My edition doesn't have
color plates, alas.
 
Ruth Berman wrote:
<<Kaliko presumably wasn't too happy with Guph, since this is his last
appearance in the series.>>
 
Judging by how Betsy doesn't recall having met Guph before [141], this
might as well be his first appearance, too.

         Another curious slip from TIK-TOK is Thompson's statement that
Ruggedo had been deposed by "a powerful Jinn" [134]. That must be how she
remembered Tititi-Hoochoo, the Great Jinjin. In JACK PUMPKINHEAD Thompson
would introduce her own Red Djinn, later rendered simply as the Red Jinn,
but this seems to be the first appearance of the term "Jinn" in the Oz
series.
 
J. L. Bell                  JnoLBell at compuserve.com

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-2000
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:19:22 GMT
 
J. L. Bell:
 >The way Snow depicted his choice in WHO'S WHO implies he was
 >motivated by loyalty to Baum's vision. I recall, however, seeing quotations
 >from a Thompson letter to Reilly & Lee asserting control over the
 >characters she created, "of course." So perhaps Snow's hands were legally
 >tied.
 
Well, Snow could have avoided using Thompson's characters without directly
contradicting her work (which she did when she placed the Good Witch of the
North in one of her books, and probably did at other times I cannot remember
just now).  From most of what I've read, Snow seems to have been a "Baum
purist."
 
 >In this book Thompson invents "exspectacles" [135], though
 >Kaliko's wizard doesn't seem to make a new pair after Carter breaks this
 >one [152].
 
We don't see the wizard creating a new pair, but this must happen at some
point, since Kaliko uses the magical glasses again in _Wishing Horse_.
There's no sign of them in _Gnome King_, but there really wasn't a point at
which it would have been appropriate for them to appear (unless Potaroo had
mentioned them as one of his recent inventions, rather than the flying
dishes).
 
 >         Another curious slip from TIK-TOK is Thompson's statement that
 >Ruggedo had been deposed by "a powerful Jinn" [134]. That must be how she
 >remembered Tititi-Hoochoo, the Great Jinjin. In JACK PUMPKINHEAD Thompson
 >would introduce her own Red Djinn, later rendered simply as the Red Jinn,
 >but this seems to be the first appearance of the term "Jinn" in the Oz
 >series.
 
Did she call Tititi-Hoochoo the Great Jinjin or the Great Jinn in _Kabumpo_?
   (He was mentioned in Ruggedo's rock history.)
 
Nathan

From: Ozmama at aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:41:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-2000
 
In a message dated 5/28/00 7:47:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
OzDigest at mindspring.com writes:
 
<<        Jack Snow seems to have tried especially hard to be
  consistent--with Baum. But he had to fudge in some ways because Baum's
  books weren't consistent with each other, and he made a couple of flubs of
  his own. The way Snow depicted his choice in WHO'S WHO implies he was
  motivated by loyalty to Baum's vision. I recall, however, seeing quotations
  from a Thompson letter to Reilly & Lee asserting control over the
  characters she created, "of course." So perhaps Snow's hands were legally
  tied. >>

    My understanding is that Snow didn't feel RPT's interpretation of
  Oz was valid and that he ignored her whenever possible.  I think it
was more of a personal thing than a legal one.
           --Robin

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:19:04 -0400
From: "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenned at bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-2000
 
J. L. Bell wrote:
 >          Jack Snow seems to have tried especially hard to be
 > consistent--with Baum. But he had to fudge in some ways because Baum's
 > books weren't consistent with each other, and he made a couple of flubs of
 > his own. The way Snow depicted his choice in WHO'S WHO implies he was
 > motivated by loyalty to Baum's vision. I recall, however, seeing quotations
 > from a Thompson letter to Reilly & Lee asserting control over the
 > characters she created, "of course." So perhaps Snow's hands were legally
 > tied.
 
Not by the law as it stood then, as far as I know.  The books were
always copyright in the name of Reilly and Lee.  And I don't recall that
she "asserted control", she merely remarked that she assumed that her
successors would leave her characters alone.
 
 > Queen Ann seems to be significantly older than Reddy or Randy, and older
 > than the intended Oz book readers, so I don't think her parents'
 > disappearance would be as worrisome to kids as theirs. On the other hand,
 > getting parents out of the way is a constant challenge for children's book
 > writers.
 
Or even for non-children's-book writers.  As a member of the company of
the New Jersey Renaissance Kingdom 

I have been working on
novelizing the past years of our continuing storyline.  For sufficient
reasons, I invented two children to serve as surrogates for the original
live audiences.  But now I'm up to the second volume, and I could not,
without unreasonable use of coincidence, keep their parents imprisoned
in pro/epilogue-land.  I'm finding it deucedly difficult to keep things
in balance with the parents on-stage, and am looking forward to future
volumes when the kids will be old enough to go to Somerset Faire on
their own without invoking broken legs and sick neighbors.  (It was
easier for me, in fact, when I brought a perfectly ordinary grown-up
into Oz.)
 
--
-John W. Kennedy
-jwkenne at attglobal.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays.  -- Charles Williams

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:48:31 -0400
From: "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at compuserve.com>
Subject: HUNGRY? not HUNGRY?

         I've been struck in rereading the Oz books in sequence at how much
deeper Baum's themes seem to run compared to Thompson's. It's not that
those themes are very sophisticated, but in a book like TIN WOODMAN they
show up much more consistently than in Thompson's madcap stories. By that
measure, Baum's shallowest books seem to be the ones he adapted from
scripts meant for whole families to enjoy. When writing directly for
children, he seemed to bring up more of what he wanted to say, rather than
what he thought his audiences expected to hear.
 
In HUNGRY TIGER, food's a constant theme, appropriate to the title
character. Irashi's opening temper tantrum is about burnt pudding [15], and
the main plot ends with a "splendid repast" [253]. Along the way we get to
see the Nomes chow down in a memorable way [146-7 and, according to Ruth
Berman, a notable color plate]. That food motif also speaks to children's
interests.

         The book seems to show a conflicted attitude toward the topic,
however. The Hungry Tiger's struggle between appetite and conscience is the
prime example, of course. He ate "real tiger food" in the wild [38], but
since meeting Ozma seems capable of consuming only vegetables and cooked
meat. The Rash singer laments people's carnivorous habits: "Should little
lambs grow into chops / And hang around in butcher shops? / No! No! I weep,
it is too sad" [52]. Yet other scenes show eating cooked animals to be
acceptable: Thompson even praises Betsy for how she helps herself to a
chicken roasted on a spit [112].

         On the other hand, there's Carter Green and his vegetables. He
turned into a real vegetable man by eating his wares, but only out of love:
"I could not let them die, so I ate them" [59]. So not eating vegetables,
he hints, is as murderous as eating animals. Of course, now that Carter's
vegetable himself, he no longer can eat. But he's still picky about who
else he'll let eat his wares. He presses food on Betsy [59-61], but asks
Irashi to "spare my potatoes, my cabbages and fresh young beets" from being
eaten by the dreaded tiger [76]. It seems to have become a control issue.
 
Carter Green is a difficult character in some other ways as well. He's
clearly this book's "non-meat" Ozian, his gradual transition from ordinary
person to non-sleeping humanoid reminiscent of Nick Chopper's [103] and his
ability to replace his ears like Jack Pumpkinhead's [36, 161].

         Carter doesn't seem as pleasant a companion as those other
gentlemen, however. He's cheerful and loyal, of course, but he's as
obsessed with his role as a vegetable man as the Daddies of Down Town are
with their vocations. Being eaten, he laments, "would ruin my business"
[76]. Falling through the underground tunnel has "ruined my business"
[100]. In Down Town, he "busied himself with counting the oranges and
apples in the window and wondered wistfully whether he could not find a
cart somewhere and stir up some trade" [114]. If Carter didn't feel
responsible for Betsy being away from home, I could easily imagine him
staying behind with the Rash Singer and Barber.

         Visually, Thompson seems to have sensed that Carter might be
off-putting: "Can you stand me at all?" he asks Betsy [58]. Thompson
assigned Carter a "turnip nose and two tall corn ears" simply for the puns,
letting Neill try to work that into something vaguely facial. Neill managed
pretty well, though the endpapers of Carter hoeing little Carter heads just
puts us back into a conflicted, potentially gruesome "Garden of Meats"
territory. Neill also seems to have trouble with Carter's cart, which
appears [56, 70] smaller than Thompson implies it should be [e.g., 86].
 
Incidentally, Jack Snow or the layout artists at Reilly & Lee seem to have
decided that the Rash Barber didn't actually stay in Rash after Reddy's
restoration [129]. WHO'S WHO shows him as the barber who cuts Jinnicky's
hair or, more often, Alibabble's in PURPLE PRINCE.
 
Rounding out this discussion of HUNGRY TIGER ambivalent messages, Ippty
seems to start out as a sympathetic character, hiding from Irashi's wrath
and defining the opening chapter's point of view [16]. As a writer,
Thompson may have naturally identified with this pencil-fingered scribe.
But starting on page 21, Ippty becomes the novel's chief villain, the one
who actually comes up with the schemes. By page 85, he's said to share
responsibility with Irashi (and the unseen national military) for all the
bad things that have happened in Rash.

         Thompson calls Ippty "still fatter" than his "fat" master [23],
another food reference. Neill gives them both a lean and hungry look,
however. He also occasionally leaves off Ippty's hard-to-draw drawing
fingers [39]. Will Atmos Fere's fellow sky scientists decide those are
typical of earth humans?
 
J. L. Bell                  JnoLBell at compuserve.com

Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:33:24 -0500
From: David Hulan <davidhulan at mail.ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-2000
 
J.L.:
 >         Jack Snow seems to have tried especially hard to be
 >consistent--with Baum. But he had to fudge in some ways because Baum's
 >books weren't consistent with each other, and he made a couple of flubs of
 >his own. The way Snow depicted his choice in WHO'S WHO implies he was
 >motivated by loyalty to Baum's vision.
 
He didn't seem to succeed very well at his efforts, imho. I like _Magical
Mimics_ very much, and think _Shaggy Man_ is OK though fairly weak, but I
don't think they're at all Baum-ish - less so than Thompson's books.
Thompson is certainly distinct from Baum, but I think her books are more
like Baum's than those of any subsequent Oz writer's.
 
 >I recall, however, seeing quotations
 >from a Thompson letter to Reilly & Lee asserting control over the
 >characters she created, "of course." So perhaps Snow's hands were legally
 >tied.
 
Snow didn't use any Thompson characters, but Neill did, so apparently using
them wasn't forbidden in R&L books. Granted, Neill's versions of Kabumpo
and Captain Salt and Sir Hokus weren't anything like Thompson's, but he did
use them - possibly others, though those are the only three I remember.
 
>In the early chapters of that book--the part Thompson was most likely to
 >have been mapping out or writing as she drafted the foreword to HUNGRY
 >TIGER--Ruggedo speaks to his "general" Peter about using his "army of
 >gnomes" to conquer Oz. Sounds like an impending invasion to me!
 
Ruggedo may have schemed an invasion of Oz in _Gnome King_, but it never
happened.
 
David Hulan

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:41:51 -0400
From: "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at compuserve.com>
Subject: Library of Congress and copyrights

David Hulan wrote:
<<Ruggedo may have schemed an invasion of Oz in _Gnome King_, but it never
happened.>>
 
This fact doesn't seem relevant to my initial observation, but that was so
many weeks ago that it may be time to review. I noted that Thompson's
preface in HUNGRY TIGER spoke of "Another war" in Oz, yet she hadn't
written a book about a war. That note was also dated rather late, possibly
after she'd started her next Oz book, GNOME KING. And the first half of
GNOME KING is when Ruggedo "schemed an invasion of Oz." That prospect might
have been on Thompson's mind and prompted this otherwise hard-to-explain
remark.
 
On the issue of Thompson's claims to her Oz writings, here's the quotation
I recalled as her "asserting control over the characters she created." It
appears on page 280 of the Oz Club edition of OZOPLANING, in the afterword
by Michael Patrick Hearn. Thompson was writing to the head of Reilly & Lee
on 20 June 1938:

      If you prefer to have another author do the book [for 1939]
      or continue the series after that, it is perfectly o.k. with me. I
      don't care a *darn* either way. Naturally I would not expect
      him to use *my* characters. He could work with Mr. Baum's
      and his own new ones.

         As David Hulan noted, Neill used versions of Thompson's characters
two years later. I don't think we can necessarily conclude, however, that
this shows using Thompson's characters <<wasn't forbidden in R&L books.>>
Thompson had a friendly relationship with Neill in 1939; she dedicated
OZOPLANING to Johnny with "Bows, cheers, and heartfelt appreciation!" She
offered to check the manuscript, praised it as "good," and in 1943 declined
to continue the series without him. Thompson might therefore have signaled
that she wouldn't object to Neill using her characters. But if Reilly & Lee
had tapped anyone but him to write the 1940 Oz book, it seems unlikely that
Thompson would have been so cooperative. She wasn't feeling at all warm
toward the firm.

         That's not to say that Thompson had an enforceable legal claim over
her Oz characters in 1940. As John W. Kennedy noted, <<The books were
always copyright in the name of Reilly and Lee.>> Sir Hokus is briefly
mentioned in MERRY-GO-ROUND, which Thompson had no link to, and Reilly &
Lee granted the Oz Club the right to publish stories about her characters
in OZIANA. But Thompson could have raised a stink if someone else wrote a
Jinnicky, Kabumpo, or Captain Salt book for Reilly & Lee. Only five years
before, Frank J. Baum had forced the firm into court by trademarking the
term "Oz" in contradiction to the contract his mother had signed; he lost
the case, but caused a lot of trouble.

         That's why I wonder whether Jack Snow's choice to ignore Thompson's
creations was purely artistic. At the very least, the head of Reilly & Lee
would have been very pleased to receive an Oz manuscript that worked only
with Mr. Baum's characters and the author's new ones.
 
J. L. Bell                  JnoLBell at compuserve.com

From: Ozmama at aol.com
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 00:04:31 EDT
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-2000
 
In a message dated 6/27/00 5:17:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
OzDigest at mindspring.com writes:
 
John Bell:<<That's why I wonder whether Jack Snow's choice to ignore
Thompson's creations was purely artistic. At the very least, the head of Reilly
& Lee would have been very pleased to receive an Oz manuscript that worked
only with Mr. Baum's characters and the author's new ones.>>
 
I never thought about it that way.  You might want to ask Fred Meyer about that
at convention.  He might know.  I do know that R&L wasn't thrilled with R.P.T.
by then, since she'd published a children's book--I think it probably was
_King Kojo_--with the David McKay Co. in Philadelphia; the story goes
something like R.P.T.'s having inserted advertising flyers in her Oz fan mail
for that non-Reilly & Lee book.  I'm fuzzy on the details and may have it just a bit scrambled.
Anyone remember this more clearly than I?
 
                   --Robin

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: The Munchkin Monarch, Omby Amby, and Carter Green of Oz
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 04:32:37 GMT
 
One more comment on _Hungry Tiger_, before we leave the subject entirely:
It seems to have been established that Ozian immortality does not apply to
vegetables.  After all, Jack Pumpkinhead constantly has to change his head.
If this is the case, is Carter Green still alive and well?  It would seem
that his body components would have gone bad by now, but maybe the Wizard
was able to come up with some way to preserve him (a magical refrigeration
field, perhaps?).
 
Nathan

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:19:45 -0400
From: "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at compuserve.com>
Subject: back home--status quo ante
 
Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<It seems to have been established that Ozian immortality does not apply
to vegetables.  After all, Jack Pumpkinhead constantly has to change his
head. If this is the case, is Carter Green still alive and well?>>
 
After Carter's ears pop in HUNGRY TIGER (because of heat, not altitude), he
goes deaf until he replaces them with new ones from a cornfield. Presumably
he could have done the same surgery on other parts of his vegetable body.
But since Carter perceives that having people eat his vegetables saves them
from death, there might be nuances to vegetable mortality that we know not
of.
 
J. L. Bell                  JnoLBell at compuserve.com

Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 15:21:26 -0500
From: Scott Andrew Hutchins <scottandrewh at home.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-2000
 
 > If this is the case, is Carter Green still alive and well?  It would seem
 > that his body components would have gone bad by now, but maybe the Wizard
 > was able to come up with some way to preserve him (a magical refrigeration
 > field, perhaps?).
 
I would assume since he was once human, he would be considered a
transformation by Ozian magic law, not a true plant.
 
Scott

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:21:56 +0000 ()
From: Louis Epstein <le at main.put.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-2000
 
> From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
> One more comment on _Hungry Tiger_, before we leave the subject entirely:
 > It seems to have been established that Ozian immortality does not apply to
 > vegetables.  After all, Jack Pumpkinhead constantly has to change his head.
 > If this is the case, is Carter Green still alive and well?  It would seem
 > that his body components would have gone bad by now, but maybe the Wizard
 > was able to come up with some way to preserve him (a magical refrigeration
 > field, perhaps?).
 
Perhaps it has to do with where the life-force resides?

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: Contradictions in Oz
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 05:31:29 GMT
 
Louis:
> > One more comment on _Hungry Tiger_, before we leave the subject
 >entirely:
 > > It seems to have been established that Ozian immortality does not apply
 >to
 > > vegetables.  After all, Jack Pumpkinhead constantly has to change his
 >head.
 > > If this is the case, is Carter Green still alive and well?  It would
 >seem
 > > that his body components would have gone bad by now, but maybe the
 >Wizard
 > > was able to come up with some way to preserve him (a magical
 >refrigeration
 > > field, perhaps?).
 >
 >Perhaps it has to do with where the life-force resides?
 
Perhaps, although this would mean the life force would have to move around
quite a bit for characters who have had their whole body gradually replaced
(such as the two Tin Men).
 
Nathan

Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 23:14:33 -0500
From: Scott Andrew Hutchins <scottandrewh at home.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-2000]
 
>
 > March
 > Laumer, "The Vegetable Man of Oz." It doesn't seem to have been
 > reviewed, and
 > I'm not familiar with it. Perhaps a review in this context (or a
 > description,
 > maybe) would be in order?
 >
 
I've also heard of a book called _Veggy Man of Oz_ (I believe without
article.)  Is this another book about Carter Green?
 
Scott

Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 20:11:53 -0400
From: rri0189 at attglobal.net
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-07-2000 (1)
 
>What story is [Sean O'Lochlain in]?
 
Randall Garrett's magnificent series of classic fair-play fantasy
mysteries featuring Lord Darcy, Chief Investigator to His Royal
Highness, Duke Richard of Normandy (brother of His Imperial Majesty John
IV, by the Grace of God, King and Emperor of England, France, Scotland,
Ireland; Holy Roman Emperor; and Lord and Protector of the Western
Continents of New England and New France), and his partner, Master Sean
O'Lochlain, the world's greatest forensic sorceror.  You'll find them in
two short-story collections, "Murder and Magic" and "Lord Darcy
Investigates", the novel, "Too Many Magicians", and a few odd places.
 
--
John W. Kennedy
(Working from my laptop)

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: More Ozzy Comments
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 12:45:06 GMT
 
Scott Hutchins:
>I've also heard of a book called _Veggy Man of Oz_ (I believe without
 >article.)  Is this another book about Carter Green?
 
I haven't read it, but I know it's not about Carter Green.  I think the
title character is made out of potatoes.
 
Nathan

Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 12:31:22 -0500
From: Stephen Teller <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Ozzy
 
Scott Andrew Hutchins wrote:
 
 > I've also heard of a book called _Veggy Man of Oz_ (I believe without
 > article.)  Is this another book about Carter Green?
 >

This is one of the books published by Buckethead.  The character is not
identified as Carter Green, and indeed looks like a potato on the cover,
but I believe the author intended it to be Carter Green until Chris
Dulabone persuaded him that this might be a copyright violation.
 
Steve T.

Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:54:52 -0500
From: David Hulan <davidhulan at mail.ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-2000 (1)
 
Scott H.:
 >I've also heard of a book called _Veggy Man of Oz_ (I believe without
 >article.)  Is this another book about Carter Green?
 
No. And it's a pretty lame book, unfortunately; I forget who wrote
it, but I'm pretty sure the author was only about 12 at the time and
it shows.
 
David Hulan

From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <xornom at hotmail.com>
Subject: VariOz Comments
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 04:08:34 GMT
 
David Hulan:
 >Scott H.:
 > >I've also heard of a book called _Veggy Man of Oz_ (I believe without
 > >article.)  Is this another book about Carter Green?
 >
 >No. And it's a pretty lame book, unfortunately; I forget who wrote
 >it, but I'm pretty sure the author was only about 12 at the time and
 >it shows.
 
The author's name is Nate Barlow.
 
Nathan

From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:08:30 -0600
Subject: [Regalia] coordinating plotlines

Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan at pauahtun.org> wrote:
> _An Infamous Army_ by Georgette Heyer.  Based on the Battle of Waterloo. 
> I understand that this one is so well researched that at least one 
> professor used it in his history course on the era.  It's probable that 
> Bernard Cornwell used it in the research for his Sharpe series, but then, 
> there's hardly anything about the Napoleonic Wars that Cornwell hasn't 
> read. >

I think probably all of her novels are well researched, but that one in 
particular was drawing in a lot of datable historical events to coordinate 
with the experiences of the characters invented for the story.
In some ways, coordinating fictional and factual events is like coordinating 
the two sets of fictional events when a story is following up on two 
plot-lines. This may be something commented on before, but in skimming 
"Hungry Tiger" last night (in search of hair-colors), it occurred to me that 
it was probably desperation that drove RPT to ingenuity in the claim that 
time in the heights of the sky went by much faster than it went down on the 
ground. It would have been hard to have as much going on while Ozma was 
kidnapped by Atmos Fere (sort of choice between boredom, in saying that they 
went higher and higher and higher and higher before she thought of 
puncturing him, or coming up with a lot of airish kingdoms and maybe the 
danger of having them be too similar to one another in providing delaying 
adventures along the way) as there was going on for Betsy, busy meeting up 
with Reddy and the Hungry Tiger and finding two of the three rubies. The 
ingenious difference of timescale doesn't coordinate well with other airish 
kingdoms over Oz, but the discrepancy can maybe be explained away easily 
enough by saying that skyish regions differ a lot.