Day 1 - Ojo taken by gypsies in late afternoon/early evening
  ("rather too late to play outdoors and rather too early for
  supper"), meets Snufferbux - night in wagon - Unc Nunkie
  reports to Ozma at dinner & they look in Magic Picture
Day 2 - Dorothy, Cowardly Lion & Scraps leave at 4 AM -
  they arrive on the Rolling Road & Dickseyland - Reachard's
  hand leads Dorothy's party to Moojer Mountain ("although the
  mountain at first glance had seemed quite near, it took them
  all morning and part of the afternoon to reach the base") -
  they nap before ascending the mountain ("when she opened her
  eyes it was night, and the whole sky was bright with stars")
  - they are enchanted by Mooj - Ojo rescued by Realbad &
  bandits in AM (after breakfast) - he summons Opodok in the
  night & he, Snufferbux & Realbad are marooned on Crystal
  Mountain - Ozma, Unc Nunkie & Scarecrow arrive at Glinda's
  palace ("about the time Dorothy, the Cowardly Lion, and Scraps
  were leaving Dicksy Land")
Day 3 - Ojo's party visits frozen city - Ojo & Snufferbux
  encounter Snoctorotomus ("the sun was still high") - they are
  reunited with Realbad & visit Tappy Town, leaving when
  "it was quite late and growing dark"  - night on plain - Realbad
  reforms during night
Day 4 - Fog in morning - Realbad encounters Ann Gora - they
  visit Unicorners - Snufferbux overpowers Realbad - Ojo &
  Snufferbux meet Elevator Man, Ojo is taken by Mooj - Roganda
  & Realbad arrive, confront Mooj - Ozma, Wizard, Unc Nunkie
  arrive, pick up Dorothy's party, leave for Seebania - Mooj
  neutralized - disenchantments, reunitements all around ("it
  was long after one o'clock")
Day 5 - Celebration in Robber's Cave "till long shadows fell
  over the spruce trees and fires and candles had to be lighted"
  - Ozma's party leaves for EC - night in cave

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:19:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: ozzy digest
 
Nathan DeHoff and Atticus Gannaway and Gili Bar-Hillel: Sensible comments on the hatefulness
of "faggots" as a term for "homosexuals" and the difference between that usage and the Ozish
"faggots."  I don't think the Ozish "faggots" always means just "bundle of twigs," although it does
in "Kabumpo".  It seems to be something insulting, but the contexts suggest "unpleasant" as the
meaning, without implying comment on sexuality.  I suppose it partly depends on what "gormish"
means, but the context suggests "pedantic" as a translation for "gormish".  There does seem to
be at least one pleasant homosexual in Oz, "Dick with the queer hatband" (he wears a girl's sash
around the brim of his hat), in Dicksy City ("Ojo").  (But as the phrase is rather obscure
nowadays, maybe I should add that "queer as Dick's hatband" used to be a synonym for
"homosexual.")

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:36:46 -0700
From: "Stephen J. Teller" <steller at pittstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-14-97
 
Ruth:  "Queer as Dick's hatband" originated as a reference to Richard
Cromwell, the son of Oliver Cromwell the Lord Protector of England.
When he tried to succeed his father he found he could not wear his
"Hatband" i.e. the crown.  The phrase long precedes the meaning of Queer
as homosexual which the OED gives no citation of before 1922.
 
Steve T.

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:31:53 -0700
From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff <vovat at geocities.com>
Subject: Ozzy Digest
 
Ruth:
Now that I think about it, Dicksy Land might be a community of
homosexuals, which would explain why only men live there, and why they
are constantly referred to as "queer."  I didn't think of this the first
few times I read the book, and I doubt most of Thompson's child readers
would have either, so I kinda wonder why Thompson put the episode in
_Ojo_.  Maybe Thompson had written the Ojo parts of the story, realized
that Ozma would probably send someone looking for Ojo, and put in an
episode for Dorothy's party.  BTW, is there any signifance to defying
someone on his white horse, or was this just silliness?
--
Nathan Mulac DeHoff
lnvf at grove.iup.edu or vovat at geocities.com

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:33:24 -0500
From: "David G. Hulan" <davidhulan at ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-97
 
Nathan:
If there's something specific about defying someone on his white horse
I'm unaware of it, but there's the fairly common expression "man on a
white horse," referring to a charismatic dictator who takes the reins of
government when the current government loses the support of the people.
Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Peron, Castro - they all were referred to in
that way in their early days in power. I would guess that RPT had
something of the sort in mind in OJO.
 
David Hulan

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:14:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Ruth Berman <berma005 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: oz digest
 
Steve Teller: I think RPT must have had the more modern meaning in
mind for the hatbanded Dick rather than Richard Cromwell.  The text
specifies that what was odd about the hatband was that it was a girl's
sash.
 
Ruth Berman

From:  David Hulan <davidhulan at n...>
Date:  Sat Dec 1, 2001  11:08 am
Subject:  BCF: Ojo in Oz

I haven't finished my reread of OJO yet, but have some preliminary thoughts.

This is one of my favorite Thompson books, exceeded only by the next
two and maybe _Silver Princess_. It's exciting, scary (arguably the
scariest, with _Magical Mimics_ the only close competition), has two
of the best supporting characters in Snufferbux and Realbad, and the
IEs in Crystal City, Unicroners, and Dicksy Land are more amusing
than most (though the Elevator Man isn't - but that one is fairly
brief).

And yet...it does more violence to the image of Oz than any other
canonical book I can think of, except possibly one or two of the
Neills.

1. The whole motivation of the gypsies, and later the bandits
(including Realbad) is to acquire the five thousand bags of sapphires
Mooj has offered as a reward for Ojo. Yet we've always been told that
jewels are common as dirt in Oz, and specifically sapphires are like
gravel around Lake Orizon to the extent that Cheeriobed's crown is
studded with cobblestones because they're relatively rare. What value
would five thousand bags of sapphires have for dishonest folk? It's
like offering a reward of a truckload of gravel - without the truck.
Sure, it has some value - but getting the value out of it would
require a lot of hard work, harder than making a living a lot of
other ways. Not the sort of thing to appeal to someone looking for an
easy living.

2. Snufferbux was exhibited at "fairs throughout Oz" chained up with
a collar. Nobody noticed this and let Ozma, or one of the other local
rulers, know that an animal was being mistreated? It's one thing for
something like that to go on in one of the little isolated
communities that seem to dot Oz, especially in the post-Baum books,
but for it to go on among a group that apparently spends its time
traveling all over the country, for, IIRC, five years, stretches the
bounds of belief.

3. What's the point of being a bandit in Oz? Everyone can have
whatever he wants just by asking for it; why take it by force? Rather
than being "the original labor-saving device," as one historian I've
read characterized group-on-group violence, it seems to be more work
than acquiring goods honestly.

4. It contains the only instance I recall of a human character
actually killing and eating an animal in Oz, when Realbad kills the
birds and roasts them, and Ojo and Snufferbux eat them without any
qualms.

The other cavil I have about the book is that it greatly overuses
coincidence, as did _Yellow Knight_.

1. When the gypsies come to the EC looking for Ojo, with no idea
where he might be or what he looks like, they just happen to set up
camp across the road from his cottage.

2. He just happens on the whistle that calls Opodock. (OK, Oz seems
to be practically littered with magic items waiting to be picked up,
so maybe that isn't so odd. If it weren't that whistle he'd likely
have found something else lying around that would have served the
purpose.)

3. The bandits - who just happen to be led by Ojo's unknown father -
find the gypsies in the very short interval between Ojo's kidnapping
and his delivery to Mooj.

4. Both Ojo's and Dorothy's parties converge on Mooj's cottage even
though the first actively wants to avoid it and the second has no
reason to go there.

There are probably others that don't come to mind, but those are four
major ones without which there wouldn't be a story. (And letting
Scraps' wish take effect when it's Dorothy who swallowed the pill
doesn't seem to make a lot of sense - how close does someone have to
be when another person takes a wishing pill to override the wish? In
contact? Within five feet? In the same room? Within earshot? Who
knows?)

Nevertheless, I like the book a lot.

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sun Dec 2, 2001  6:26 pm
Subject:  OJO plot

OJO was one of the first Thompson Oz books I read, perhaps the first, and
it remains one of my favorites. Rereading the series in order of
publication has helped show me why. For one thing, the book borrows plot
elements from several immediate predecessors, but combines them in new ways
so they add up to more.

From PURPLE PRINCE, we have a boy, seemingly a poor nobody,
becoming royalty; and that young hero torn between two bickering
companions, one a curmudgeonly animal.

PIRATES lends an archetypal brigand who can't really be bad ("Ojo,
for one reason and another, could not believe that Realbad was really as
bad as he pretended to be" [87]; Realbad leaving "a short hunting knife"
after taking a large breakfast [125] reflects how both Captain Salt and
Peter left behind riches for what they plundered).

From YELLOW KNIGHT, Thompson borrows a prince long in exile from
his enchanted kingdom, forced to wander in wilderness (who even chooses his
course by tossing his sword in the air [222]); and a villain who's
subjugated a rich land by magic, yet is so nervous about his hold on power
that he sets in motion events which undo him.

All those threads are retwisted to give OJO a stronger, more
compelling storyline. For instance, in PURPLE PRINCE Thompson had to keep
Randy's quest a secret in his mind, forcing a little distance between her
readers and her protagonist. Because Ojo knows as little about his
background as we do, Thompson needs no such subterfuges in this book. We
learn alongside him, and thus can see events from his point of view without
missing elements. (That said, it would have been nice to see more of Ojo's
emotional response to meeting his mother.)

Thompson can drop early hints about Realbad's mysterious background
[94-5, 111], but doesn't have to cover up details until she enters his
point of view in chapter 14. By eschewing transformation as the reason Ree
Alla Bad isn't on his throne, she doesn't have to do away with the Realbad
we've come to love, as she so drastically changes Sir Hokus.

The PIRATES theme of men trying to be worse than they really are
and the PURPLE PRINCE tension between companions braid together in OJO,
producing more tension than before. Kabumpo and Jinnicky's feud was just a
bother since they were on the same quest. Realbad and Snufferbux are at
odds over more than personalities; the bear truly distrusts the bandit,
with excellent reason. Ojo is caught between them [shown explicitly at 50,
60, 78, 99], but not just because he wants all his friends to get along; he
knows his life may be at stake. Ojo's attraction to Realbad [56, 256] is
not, like Peter's to Salt, a simple wish to act tough but a danger (though
we eventually learn there's even more between them).

Twice Ojo feels betrayed and sickened by Realbad's seeming greed
[77, 255], yet he also promises the robber he won't run off [61, 78] and
expects his protection [259]. Twice Snuffer drags him away from the bandit,
both times proving significant to the plot. (Snuffer and Realbad have their
own moments of being torn in two, too [222, 228].) The emotional and the
physical aspects of OJO's plot work together here, producing one of
Thompson's most gripping narratives.

In fact, OJO is different from many other Oz books in that it has
only one goal--every character is trying to find or secure Ojo himself. Yet
because of the emotional depth of the characters' quests and what we know
(and don't know) about them, that's enough to create a complex and
compelling plot.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sun Dec 2, 2001  6:26 pm
Subject:  OJO Ojo

As seems to be her regular working method, once Thompson decided to write a
sequel to PATCHWORK GIRL she reread that book; Ojo summarizes it at length
in chapter 3. I also looked back in PATCHWORK GIRL to prepare for rereading
OJO, focusing on a series of drawings of the Munchkin boy--

page 39: He secretly adds more brains to Margolotte's mixture
183: He secretly picks the six-leafed clover
227: Having concealed the clover, he hesitates to confess to Ozma
325: He sneaks a drop of oil from Nick Chopper
At all those moments, Ojo clearly knows he's doing something he could get
in trouble for. He's also been shown or told that there are other ways he
might get what he wants. But he goes ahead and does it anyway, usually with
some rationalization.

Similarly, at the start of this book Ojo disobeys Unc Nunkie's
instructions and then argues his choice to himself [24]. He wants to see
the gypsies up close, just as he's later attracted to being a bandit [56,
94, 256]. Though he'd probably deny it, Ojo is still prey to his
disobedient impulses.

Thompson picks up other aspects of Baum's character as well. In
contrast to many of her own young heroes, Ojo isn't much good in a fight.
We saw that with the Tottenhots, when Dorothy did more damage than he. We
see it again as Ojo is dragged around by an old woman [28], roughed up by
poor children [30], and easily manhandled by the bandits [53]. He sits out
his companions' fights with the crystal guards [122] and Snoctorotomus
[198]. At a sudden sound in the fog, Ojo "dropped his rod and flung his
arms around Snufferbux" [229]. Realbad even has to steady "the boy as his
foot slipped into a gopher hole" [226]. Though he looks ahead to "when he
[next] wrestled with the boys in the Emerald City," that's only because he
expects to have Realbad's protective ring [204]. (It also seems pertinent
that Ojo's closest friend in the capital has so far been small, gentle Button-Bright.)

That's not to say that Ojo is either completely passive or
non-physical. He saves Realbad from his gang [83], and figures out the
Tappy Town king's directions [256] and other useful knowledge. He can "walk
on his hands and turn cartwheels" [194], and dance "a hornpipe he had
learned from Cap'n Bill" [216]. (It's not clear whether he's learned to
swim since PATCHWORK GIRL [124], but Dorothy has [151].) But Baum's
character simply isn't as aggressive as Peter or Randy, and Thompson
doesn't try to make him so.

Another aspect of Ojo's character in PATCHWORK GIRL is his
emotional fragility. He often bursts into tears, far more often than Baum's
other young protagonists (male or female). Thompson rarely shows her heroes
crying, but she puts tears in Ojo's eyes twice [53, 255].
Ojo's frequent tears and complaints about being "Unlucky" in
PATCHWORK GIRL have led me to wonder if Baum was depicting what was later
termed depression. Again, Thompson seems to have picked up on that tendency
in Ojo. Three times she refers to him as feeling "depressed" [32,
91, 192].

In contrast, that word appears only once in each of WISHING HORSE and
CAPTAIN SALT, the next two books in the series. Ojo goes through severe
mood swings as he struggles with feelings of betrayal [e.g., "All that Ojo
felt now was repugnance and terror"--77; also 193, 255]. Of course, those
shifts reflect the reverses of the plot, but Ojo appears prone to more
emotional highs and lows than most young heroes.

In that regard, Ojo makes an interesting contrast with Realbad,
"nonchalant and gay as ever" [274]. "Never worry about a thing until it
happens," the outlaw counsels [58]. He takes defeat, victory, having his
"favorite toe" trod on, being thrown out of someone else's court, and
apologizing to an angry unicorn with grace [79-80, 87, 218-9, 230]. Even
when poor circumstances leave him fuming, he's "restored to instant good
humor" by one of Thompson's usual extraordinarily lucky breaks [96].
Realbad seems to have the steady, happy personality Ojo lacks.
Or does he? Ojo believes Realbad "looked both sad and worried"
[74], and feels "very sorry for him" [82]. His cheeriness seems to depend
on being an outlaw: "Why be good and glum when it's so much more fun to be
bad and gay?" he asks [99]. Realbad links his current behavior to past
losses: "All my possessions and treasures were stolen from me by
gentlemanly and noble rascals, so I have become an ignoble and
ungentlemanly rascal" [95].

In the early chapters Realbad falls asleep notably fast [81, 129].
But in chapter 14 he "slept scarcely a wink, so busy was he with thoughts
of the past and plans for the future." His fondness for Ojo has brought to
the surface emotions he's long suppressed for the sake of his wife, and he
has to confront his issues. At last, it appears, the "bad and gay" bandit
acknowledges that he had "happier days before he became an outlaw" [221].
When Realbad encounters Mooj, "For the first time...Ojo saw the
bandit turn pale and actually tremble" [277]. The formerly laughing bandit
now shows nothing but anger and "anguish" [279]. He succumbs to an Ojo-like
moment of groaning and despair: "No, no, everything is ruined" [281]. From
that point on, Ozma and the Wizard fix everything; Realbad is out of his depth.
When Realbad finally tells his full story, he shows a wider range
of emotions than ever before: "wistful" [289], "reflective" [292],
"defiant" [294]. He acknowledges that he became a bandit out of feeling
"bitter and disillusioned," not because of a rational (or rationalized)
choice [294]. What's Ree Alla Bad's real personality? We've mostly seen the
bonhomie he put on to suppress his anger and loss. The king and prince of
Seebania may have more in common emotionally than we know.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Mon Dec 3, 2001  12:41 am
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] OJO plot

J. L. Bell:
> From YELLOW KNIGHT, Thompson borrows a prince long in exile from
>his enchanted kingdom, forced to wander in wilderness (who even chooses his
>course by tossing his sword in the air [222])

Randy and Kabumpo choose a course this way in PURPLE PRINCE, but I don't
believe Sir Hokus ever does (in YELLOW KNIGHT or elsewhere).

>and a villain who's
>subjugated a rich land by magic, yet is so nervous about his hold on power
>that he sets in motion events which undo him.

I see Mooj as one of the most frightening villains in the series. While the
comparison to the Sultan of Samandra is apt, the Sultan seems more human,
what with his comic tantrums, affection for his dog, and actual motivations
for his actions. Mooj, on the other hand, is completely mysterious, with no
explanation as to why he wants to rule Seebania, and no real peeks into his
sinister mind at all. I'll have more to say on Mooj later, most likely.

Nathan

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Mon Dec 3, 2001  1:14 am
Subject:  BCF: Ojo's history and Munchkin politics

I haven't finished re-reading OJO yet, but there are still a few things I
wanted to say about it, mostly regarding the history of Ojo and Seebania as
provided by Realbad and Unc Nunkie. The Seebanians apparently ruled the
entire southern Munchkin Country until Ozma came to the throne. While this
fits with what we know from PATCHWORK GIRL (in which it is revealed that Unc
Nunkie might have been King of the Munchkins if they hadn't united with the
other quadrants in accepting Ozma as their sole ruler), it's slightly
difficult to reconcile with what we know from GIANT HORSE. By the time Ozma
came to the throne, the former King of the Munchkins (the northern
Munchkins, most likely) had been enchanted (and possibly destroyed) by
Mombi, and the Wicked Witch of the East (whose domain probably consisted
mostly of the central Munchkin Country) had been crushed by Dorothy's house.
Hence, there wasn't really any strong ruler in the Munchkin Country aside
from the King of Seebania. There is, however, a King of the Munchkins in
OZMA and ROAD, but we don't know who this is. Wouldn't it have made sense
to give that position to the King of Seebania, who would presumably have
become the most important ruler in Munchkinland by that time? Or was Ozma
unsure of the loyalties of this ruler? Keep in mind that the Winkie and
Quadling rulers were both personal friends of hers, and the GWN's good
reputation was well-known. Maybe she appointed an interim ruler who would
be likely to support her, since unifying the previously fragmented Land of
Oz was a high priority at the beginning of her reign.

Considering Ojo's age in PATCHWORK GIRL, it must not have been very long
between Ozma's ascension to the throne and Ojo's birth (which occurred
shortly after Mooj's conquest of Seebania). Does anyone have any timely
estimates for when these events might have taken place? Don't forget that
Unc Nunkie was friends with Dr. Pipt after his escape from Seebania (I'm
assuming that Pipt didn't know him when he was a Prince, although the
crooked magician is aware of Unc's royal blood), but before the magician
started stirring the kettles for his second batch of Powder of Life, which
took six years.

Since Prince Stephen was a major figure in Seebanian and southern Munchkin
politics, it strikes me as somewhat odd that no one would recognize him as
Seebanian royalty. Actually, Pipt knows that he is related to the old
Munchkin Kings, but doesn't seem to know that Unc was ever active in ruling.
For that matter, if Seebania was such a major power, why would it take so
long for Ozma to find out about Mooj's conquest? Perhaps Mooj's magic had
something to do with this.

Nathan

From:  Tigerbooks at a...
Date:  Mon Dec 3, 2001  2:00 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] BCF: Ojo vs. OJO

I have not reread OJO in a long while -- and probably don't plan to. But I thought it
perhaps interesting why I don't much care for the book anymore.

PATCHWORK GIRL is arguably my favorite Oz book being held at bay only by OZMA,
ROAD, and GLINDA. Anyway, one of the things that I thought the very best
qualities of PATCHWORK GIRL when I first read it was that it was the first (and
almost only) look at a real, normal boy -- and the average citizenry and how
they lived. The fact that Oz had "outer reaches" and indeed that
folks could be starving made Oz very real. Ojo was also Baum's strongest boy,
IMHO. Also it seemed neat that adventures happened to an everyday male kid for
once. (Button Bright is too weak and Tip is a girl).

So all that said OJO ruins Ojo for me so I've moved it aside.  I did
rather like the book (taken on its own) the first time I read it. I loved the
atmosphere of the gypsies, the friendship with Snufferbux , etc., but if we'd
found out Snuffer was the King of the Munchkins I'd have liked the book alot
more.  

RPT seems to have had a fondness for killing off all the best Oz characters.
She repeatedlty takes good, living, and interesting characters and turns them
into life-less royal bric-a-brac. WHo cares for Peg Amy after shes turned to
flesh? WHo prefers the Yellow Knight to Sir Hokus? Who cares about Orin
compared to the GWN? Or when Planetty is turned into THE MEAT PRINCEES OF OZ.

It's probably a good idea that RPT stopped at 21 titles or she might have
eventually gotten around to making Dorothy a Princess of Oz that was kidnapped
at birth and shipped off to the US for safekeeping. Ooops, I guess Frank J.
Baum beat her to it : )


Best,

David M.

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Mon Dec 3, 2001  9:48 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] BCF: Ojo vs. OJO

David Maxine:
>So all that said OJO ruins Ojo for me so I've moved it aside. I did rather
>like the book (taken on its own) the first time I read it. I loved the
>atmosphere of the gypsies, the friendship with Snufferbux , etc., but if
>we'd
>found out Snuffer was the King of the Munchkins I'd have liked the book
>alot
>more.

Well, Baum did mention that Unc Nunkie was related to the old Kings of the
Munchkins, so I don't think it's too unreasonable for Thompson to make him
and Ojo into princes.

>RPT seems to have had a fondness for killing off all the best Oz
>characters.
>She repeatedlty takes good, living, and interesting characters and turns
>them
>into life-less royal bric-a-brac. WHo cares for Peg Amy after shes turned
>to
>flesh?

Well, Prince Pompadore, maybe.

>WHo prefers the Yellow Knight to Sir Hokus? Who cares about Orin
>compared to the GWN? Or when Planetty is turned into THE MEAT PRINCEES OF
>OZ.

I think one problem isn't simply that Thompson reveals these characters to
be enchanted (or otherwise displaced) royalty, but that she really doesn't
do anything with them afterwards. Aside from their brief appearances at the
party in WISHING HORSE, they pretty much disappear after their true
identities are revealed. We don't see Ojo living in Seebania, or Orin
helping her husband to rule the Munchkins.

>It's probably a good idea that RPT stopped at 21 titles or she might have
>eventually gotten around to making Dorothy a Princess of Oz that was
>kidnapped at birth and shipped off to the US for safekeeping. Ooops, I
>guess
>Frank J. Baum beat her to it : )

He did? When did he do that? The only Frank J. Baum work I've read is
LAUGHING DRAGON, and Dorothy wasn't even in that.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Tue Dec 4, 2001  12:35 pm
Subject:  OJO and Ojo

David Maxine wrote:
<<one of the things that I thought the very best qualities of PATCHWORK
GIRL when I first read it was that it was the first (and almost only) look
at a real, normal boy -- and the average citizenry and how they lived. The
fact that Oz had "outer reaches" and indeed that folks could be starving
made Oz very real. Ojo was also Baum's strongest boy, IMHO. Also it seemed
neat that adventures happened to an everyday male kid for once. (Button
Bright is too weak and Tip is a girl).

So all that said OJO ruins Ojo for me so I've moved it aside. I did rather
like the book (taken on its own) the first time I read it. I loved the
atmosphere of the gypsies, the friendship with Snufferbux , etc., but if
we'd found out Snuffer was the King of the Munchkins I'd have liked the
book alot more.

RPT seems to have had a fondness for killing off all the best Oz
characters. She repeatedlty takes good, living, and interesting characters
and turns them into life-less royal bric-a-brac.>>

I heartily agree with your criticism of Thompson's predilection for making
interesting characters into uninteresting royalty. I dislike it especially
when she works such changes on well established characters (Sir Hokus,
Scarecrow, Good Witch of the North).

But I don't feel that way about Ojo. I'm happy to think of him as crown
prince of Seebania, and frustrated that copyright protection keeps other
writers from picking up on that history in print. (Since OZIANA received a
blanket permission from Reilly & Lee years ago, it could publish my story
"Ozma Fights the Sniffles," which depicts Prince Ojo visiting
Button-Bright's sickbed.)

Why don't I feel any loss of Ojo the ordinary Munchkin boy? Because Baum
had already removed the character's most interesting characteristics at the
end of PATCHWORK GIRL. Through most of that book Ojo's desperate,
despairing, on an emotional edge. But at the end of PATCHWORK GIRL, the
Wizard restores Unc Nunkie, the boy suddenly decides to become Ojo the
Lucky, and his life is fixed. Fixed in two senses: he seems to suffer no
tension, physical or emotional, and he's part of the same Emerald City
crowd as most other Ozian favorites. No longer facing the ethical dilemmas
of whether to pick a six-leafed clover or sacrifice a yellow butterfly, the
boy mouths platitudes like, "Only wicked people steal." In sum, Ojo becomes
TOO ordinary to be interesting.

It seems telling to me that Ojo seldom appears in Baum's books after
PATCHWORK GIRL except in Emerald City crowd scenes. In LOST PRINCESS,
Glinda sends him off to the Munchkin Country with Unc Nunkie and Dr. Pipt
to search for Ozma, and we never hear what they find. In GLINDA, Ojo
travels to Skeezer Lake, but makes no significant contribution to the
rescue. In contrast, those same books get a lot of tension, comedy, and
reader exasperation out of Button-Bright, another non-royal boy but with no
ordinary personality.

So when Thompson throws Ojo into another adventure in OJO, and also seems
to resurrect some of his earlier edgy persona, I'm happy to make his
acquaintance again. Of course, the ending of OJO threatens to make the boy
once again too happy to be interesting. It may even erase the few elements
of Ojo's life that Baum had left distinct: Unc Nunkie's silence, Ojo's
orphanhood, their non-palatial home. But I don't think Ojo has to become
that boring. (At the very least, Neill's choice to make him Kabumpo's
elephant boy and Snow's restoration of him and Unc Nunkie to the Emerald
City don't make him any more interesting.)

As my earlier messages described, I think Baum and Thompson depict Ojo as
tending to moodiness and willing to break rules. Those traits come out most
strongly when he's in tough circumstances, but they appear even before he
gets into trouble. I don't imagine, furthermore, that Ojo's reunion with
his royal parents will be entirely smooth. Their personalities and
histories are just too different. He'll have to adjust to Unc Nunkie's
greater talkativeness, and the realization that the old man was keeping
secrets from him. At some point, Prince Ojo will start to be moody, and Ree
Alla Bad, former bandit chief, may well become exasperated. In sum, I see
much more potential for Prince Ojo to have new, interesting adventures than
I see for Prince Tatters, King Reddy, or Prince Pon.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Dec 3, 2001  11:22 pm
Subject:  OJO and the Ozian traditions

David Hulan wrote (and it's good to be able to type that again):
<<it does more violence to the image of Oz than any other canonical book I
can think of, except possibly one or two of the Neills.

1. The whole motivation of the gypsies, and later the bandits (including
Realbad) is to acquire the five thousand bags of sapphires Mooj has offered
as a reward for Ojo. Yet we've always been told that jewels are common as
dirt in Oz, and specifically sapphires are like gravel around Lake Orizon
to the extent that Cheeriobed's crown is studded with cobblestones because
they're relatively rare.>>

A good point, especially when coupled with your reminder that Baum's Oz
contained great resources and very little real want, and thus little reason
to steal, kidnap, and so on. I see that the gypsies have some "copper
coins" [51], and Dorothy worries about eating "without paying" [176]. OJO
is thus far from the first time Thompson has ignored the "no money, no
poverty" rule in Oz for the sake of her plot or atmosphere.
Almost all of OJO seems to take place in southern Munchkinland, the
region below the Munchkin River claimed or dominated by Seebania [290].
That kingdom was presumably a rival of the Ozure Isles, whose king seems to
have had his own claim on ruling the Munchkins. Is it possible that the
sapphires that are so common near Lake Orizon are rare in, and rarely
exported to, this corner of Oz? That seems highly unlikely as a resolution
of this problem, but it may be a start.

I recall, but not clearly enough to identify, some Oz book or story
saying that a metal we consider common--perhaps tin--is rare in Oz. That
leaves the possibility that there's some natural resource which Ozians
value highly enough to motivate these sorts of shenanigans. It may not
really be sapphires.

<<2. Snufferbux was exhibited at "fairs throughout Oz" chained up with a
collar. Nobody noticed this and let Ozma, or one of the other local rulers,
know that an animal was being mistreated?>>

Snuffer says he's spent the last five years "begging at country fairs"
[66]. The farmers who attend those might well be prejudiced against bears
or beggars, or both, and disinclined to help him.
Furthermore, when Ojo threatens Nome with Ozma's name, the old
gypsy woman squeals, "No one finds the gypsies! . . . Let them try!  Let
them try!" [44] That implies that if anyone did complain to the authorities
about how the gypsies were treating their bear "Rufus," the band would have
melted into the highways before they could be caught.
Of course, at the end of the book Ozma does reportedly find the
gypsies, with no evident trouble or delay, and exile them to the Great
Outside World [more about that later].

<<4. It contains the only instance I recall of a human character actually
killing and eating an animal in Oz, when Realbad kills the birds and roasts
them, and Ojo and Snufferbux eat them without any qualms.>>

It's worse than that, I think, and not just because Realbad also takes
"wild duck eggs" from a nest and cooks them [224]. ("Honey?  Quack Quack.
Have you see the kids? Quack. They were just here a minute ago.")
Having made her outlaws into huntsmen [more about that later, too],
Thompson furnishes their cave with "Bearskin rugs" and "the heads of deer,
elk, and other large animals" [57]. Thompson makes no bones about the fact
that those trophies once had bones inside: "Ojo and Snuffer shared a rug by
the fire, and the bear sorrowfully felt and measured the hide of his huge
and fallen kinsman" [81]. We can hope that Ree Alla Bad remodels that cave
before Snuffer goes there to hibernate [304]. (There's also the practical
mystery of how the bandits acquired these trophies since "no person or
creature in Oz can be permanently destroyed," and even the beheaded
Snoctorotomus "may pull itself together" at any snoctoromoment [203].)
Having become acquainted with their quarry doesn't seem to deter
these bandits, since they talk about roasting Snufferbux for breakfast or
skinning him to make another rug [49, 61]. (Why else would Realbad order
his men to "Bring the bear," who has no monetary value, along with Ojo
[53]?) Eventually the outlaws leave Snuffer alone, but they still roast "a
great side of venison" [63], which Ojo remembers eating fondly [301].  (This
is quite a contrast with his PATCHWORK GIRL diet, dominated by bread and cheese.)
Snufferbux calls himself "carnivorous" [64], and eats live ants in
a pinch [124]. For the most part, however, he seems to prefer a vegetarian
diet. "Bears do not eat little boys," the Cowardly Lion assures Scraps
[147], and this bear certainly doesn't. His worst appetite is a sweet tooth
for honey [66]. As Realbad plucks and roasts the "two wild fowl" you
mention, "Snuffer, who did not care for meat, removed himself" [203]. The
rabbit in Neill's drawing on page 90 probably has no reason to eye Snuffer so nervously.
I think it's significant that Thompson assures us the birds Realbad
cooks are "wild fowl" and "wild duck"--they're outlaws like him, implicitly
not covered by Ozma's protective laws. Of course, OJO is also the first
book that actually shows us the Tin Woodman with a yellow butterfly [72].
Thompson clearly knew of the tradition of protecting all creatures in Oz.
She just went with, and extended, a rival tradition, most evident in Baum's
books when the Cowardly Lion is hunting: the law of the jungle.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Tue Dec 4, 2001  3:19 pm
Subject:  OJO Mooj

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<I see Mooj as one of the most frightening villains in the
series...completely mysterious, with no explanation as to why he wants to
rule Seebania, and no real peeks into his sinister mind at all.>>

On page 183, Thompson has Mooj say, "Sit down, and hear my story." This
turns into a ruse to calm the Cowardly Lion, but it feels like a false
start--as if Thompson was then going to reveal more about her villain but
decided against it.

Neill seems to have come up with Mooj's nasty clock face, and I think
that's what makes him such a memorable villain. Thompson says only that
he's a "bent and evil-looking old Munchkin" [how nice to know what evil
looks like], and Dorothy and her companions see nothing striking about his
appearance [180]. Thompson seems to have created a standard old, evil
magician for her plot, and added the one idiosyncrasy of clock-making to
make him somewhat distinct.

(Timepieces seem to have been in Thompson's mind even in the scenes without
Mooj. To get an early start in searching for Ojo, Dorothy sets her alarm
clock [140]. Snuffer at first thinks the bell from Ojo's ring is coming
from a clock [196]. And Unc Nunkie escaped from Mooj's imprisonment by
bribing a guard with his gold watch [294].)

Not only does Mooj's interest in Seebania go unexplained, but once he has
the kingdom he doesn't appear to do anything with it. He tells Scraps he
has "plenty of time" for making clocks [185]. As far as we know, during all
the early chapters of OJO he's at his clockworkshop awaiting
bounty-hunters, not worrying about Seebania at all.

Ree Alla Bad, his rival, offers an explanation: Mooj has "secured by his
magic spells the loyalty and support of all the Seebanians" [292].  (That
said, the two guards holding Isomere in chains look "sorrowful" [287].) It
takes Ozma's magic to release the population from these "mischievous
spells" [298].

We should note that Glinda's Great Book of Records refers to Mooj as "The
King of Seebania...taking steps to secure his crown" [190], with no hint
that he's not the legitimate ruler. It's also interesting that, despite Ree
Alla Bad's statement that "If I ever tried to return...at that moment
Isomere would be utterly and dreadfully destroyed" [292], Mooj hasn't set
up such an instantaneous spell, so he doesn't use magic as much as the new
king says he did.

Which leads to some provocative alternative readings. One lies in Mooj's
origin as "an old wise man from the north" [291]. Seebania dominated the
southern part of Munchkinland. Perhaps Mooj was an agent from the Ozure
Isles or another regional power (Kereteria or Wutz?) charged with taking
control of Seebania. Once he'd accomplished that, he could indulge his real
interest in clocks.

Secondly, we have to admit that OJO shows us only the Ree Alla Bad
dynasty's take on Seebanian history, in which they're the good and
legitimate rulers and Mooj the usurper. Thompson's note in the front of the
Reilly & Lee edition even states that she "called [Ojo] on the radio phone
and begged him to tell me the whole exciting story!"

What if Ojo's grandfather, who was "fonder of hunting than of ruling"
[291], wasn't serving his subjects? We know that Seebania's influence
declined during his reign, though Ree Alla Bad insists that was because he
was loyal to Ozma--who is, of course, right in front of him and has just
turned a man into a sparrow [290]. What if Mooj engineered a palace coup
that the Seebanian population supported not because of spells but because
they were tired of their previous king? Shamsbad doesn't seem to have
suffered during Mooj's rule.

That brings up a yet more disturbing possibility. Mooj seems to have kept
Isomere comfortable in Seebania. She has an "apartment" [294], and we see
her first dressed in "silvery satin" [287], not rags or a gardener's smock.
She's weeping, but that's because after many years Mooj is about to
transform or do away with her--though he never does. Has Isomere been loyal
to Ree Alla Bad all that time? Or might she have reached an understanding
with Seebania's new king? Early in her captivity, Isomere gave birth to a
baby boy--which comes as a complete surprise to Ree Alla Bad. So here's the
kicker: Is Ojo truly his son? Why do the names "Mooj" and
"Ojo" overlap so
much?

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Tue Dec 4, 2001  3:19 pm
Subject:  OJO comment corrections

In discussing how characters seem to kill and eat animals happily in OJO, I
neglected the Cowardly Lion's response to seeing the Dickey Bird alight
nearby: "Mmm-m! Breakfast!" [153]

I might be pronouncing Snoctorotomus wrong in my head. I've been seeing it
as derived from "toro," or bull, and thus pronounced
"snock-TORE-oh-TOE-mus." But Thompson may well have meant it to rhyme with
hippopotamus: "SNOCK-tuh-ROT-uh-MUS."

Finally, I hastily wrote, "that word ['depressed'] appears only once in
each of WISHING HORSE and CAPTAIN SALT, the next two books in the series."
I should have said those were the next two books for which I have
electronic texts. More haste, less SPEEDY.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Tue Dec 4, 2001  1:10 pm
Subject:  OJO at swords' points

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<> From YELLOW KNIGHT, Thompson borrows a prince long in exile from
>his enchanted kingdom, forced to wander in wilderness (who even chooses his
>course by tossing his sword in the air [222])

Randy and Kabumpo choose a course this way in PURPLE PRINCE, but I don't
believe Sir Hokus ever does (in YELLOW KNIGHT or elsewhere).>>

YELLOW KNIGHT, chapter 11, but I hadn't remembered the similar episode in
PURPLE PRINCE.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Tue Dec 4, 2001  5:32 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] OJO and Ojo

J. L. Bell:
>I heartily agree with your criticism of Thompson's predilection for making
>interesting characters into uninteresting royalty. I dislike it especially
>when she works such changes on well established characters (Sir Hokus,
>Scarecrow, Good Witch of the North).

While I basically agree with you, it could certainly be argued that the GWN
wasn't exactly a well-established character, since Baum only mentions her
twice (I think) after her somewhat major appearance in WIZARD. The more
annoying aspect to this transformation is that Thompson herself gives the
GWN a name, a home, two companions, and various magical items, and then
promptly discards most of them. There was definitely room for more
development than Thompson was willing to provide. As for the Scarecrow, he
decided NOT to be restored to his human body, so I wouldn't say ROYAL BOOK
ruined his character at all. The most annoying change for me was that of
Urtha being changed back into Princess Pretty Good. She not only gave up
her uniqueness, but also her fairy powers.

>In LOST PRINCESS,
>Glinda sends him off to the Munchkin Country with Unc Nunkie and Dr. Pipt
>to search for Ozma, and we never hear what they find.

Has anyone written about the other three expeditions in LOST PRINCESS? This
seems to me to be a fairly obvious story idea, but I have yet to see anyone
who has used it.

Nathan

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Tue Dec 4, 2001  5:38 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] OJO and the Ozian traditions

J. L. Bell:
>Having made her outlaws into huntsmen [more about that later, too],
>Thompson furnishes their cave with "Bearskin rugs" and "the heads of deer,
>elk, and other large animals" [57]. Thompson makes no bones about the fact
>that those trophies once had bones inside: "Ojo and Snuffer shared a rug by
>the fire, and the bear sorrowfully felt and measured the hide of his huge
>and fallen kinsman" [81]. We can hope that Ree Alla Bad remodels that cave
>before Snuffer goes there to hibernate [304]. (There's also the practical
>mystery of how the bandits acquired these trophies since "no person or
>creature in Oz can be permanently destroyed," and even the beheaded
>Snoctorotomus "may pull itself together" at any snoctoromoment [203].)

I suppose it's possible that these animals were killed before the
immortality enchantment took full effect. The Gump was certainly shot and
killed, and was dead until Tip revived its head with the Powder of Life.
This would mean, however, that the bandits had not killed any animals for
many years, which does not entirely fit with their idea to turn Snufferbux
into steaks or a rug.

Nathan

From:  Tigerbooks at a...
Date:  Tue Dec 4, 2001  7:30 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] BCF: Ojo vs. OJO

David M. wrote:

>It's probably a good idea that RPT stopped at 21 titles or she might have
>eventually gotten around to making Dorothy a Princess of Oz that was
>kidnapped at birth and shipped off to the US for safekeeping. Ooops, I
>guess
>Frank J. Baum beat her to it : )

Natan replied:

He did?  When did he do that?  The only Frank J. Baum work I've read is
LAUGHING DRAGON, and Dorothy wasn't even in that.

In the screenplay for the dreadful 1925 WIZARD film.

--David M.

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Wed Dec 5, 2001  12:28 am
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] OJO Mooj

J. L. Bell:
>Which leads to some provocative alternative readings. One lies in Mooj's
>origin as "an old wise man from the north" [291]. Seebania dominated the
>southern part of Munchkinland. Perhaps Mooj was an agent from the Ozure
>Isles or another regional power (Kereteria or Wutz?) charged with taking
>control of Seebania.

Well, if he were from the Ozure Isles, it would explain where he got the
five thousand sacks of sapphires. Mooj's being an agent of the Wizard of
Wutz might make even more sense, although that would mean that Wutz was in
action LONG before Handy Mandy and Nox stumbled upon his secret mountain
laboratory, and before his other agents made any attempt to steal items like
the Magic Belt and Book of Records. One problem with this theory is that
Mooj has held onto Seebania for years by the beginning of OJO, and we see no
sign that any other rulers have attempted to annex it. Perhaps his employer
fears Ozma's power too much to try something like this? Or maybe Mooj's
mission was simply to neutralize Seebania's power, rather than to give it to
another ruler?

>That brings up a yet more disturbing possibility. Mooj seems to have kept
>Isomere comfortable in Seebania. She has an "apartment" [294], and we see
>her first dressed in "silvery satin" [287], not rags or a gardener's smock.
>She's weeping, but that's because after many years Mooj is about to
>transform or do away with her--though he never does. Has Isomere been loyal
>to Ree Alla Bad all that time? Or might she have reached an understanding
>with Seebania's new king?

While this might be a logical possibility in some ways, I seriously doubt
that Thompson had it in mind. Does infidelity even occur in Oz?

Nathan

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Wed Dec 5, 2001  12:35 am
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] OJO comments

J. L. Bell:
>In discussing how characters seem to kill and eat animals happily in OJO, I
>neglected the Cowardly Lion's response to seeing the Dickey Bird alight
>nearby: "Mmm-m! Breakfast!" [153]

Speaking of Dickey Birds, it seems significant that they don't appear to be
sentient. The first one encountered by Dorothy's party relies on its sign
to communicate, while the ones in Dickus' cage simply mimic the phrase
"right-hand man." Could this be an indication that Thompson considered some
of the animals of Oz to be non-sentient? If it's only these "dumber"
animals who are eaten by humans, though, it doesn't explain why both
Snufferbux and Pajuka were potential dinners.

>I might be pronouncing Snoctorotomus wrong in my head. I've been seeing it
>as derived from "toro," or bull, and thus pronounced
>"snock-TORE-oh-TOE-mus." But Thompson may well have meant it to rhyme with
>hippopotamus: "SNOCK-tuh-ROT-uh-MUS."

For what it's worth, I always used the latter pronunciation.

Nathan

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Wed Dec 5, 2001  4:51 pm
Subject:  OJO and Munchkin geography

On p. 290, Realbad identifies Seebania as "an immense but little known tract
of forest land...bounded on the north by the Munchkin River and on the south
by the Quadling Country." On the IWOC map, Haff and Martin basically stick
to this description, but Seebania is not shown as bordering on the Quadling
Country, the forest where Grampa and Tatters encountered Vaga, the other
famous Munchkin bandit chief, being in between. Still, the location of
Seebania is pretty well defined.

How far did Unc Nunkie travel with the infant Ojo before reaching the house
where they lived at the beginning of PATCHWORK GIRL? Given the conflicting
references in PATCHWORK GIRL itself, this is somewhat confusing. The
mountain where Dr. Pipt lived, not far from Unc Nunkie's house, was
described as being on the Gillikin border, yet Ojo had mentioned earlier
that he could see the Hammer-Heads' mountain from the forest. Either one
could be a mistake on someone's part; Baum could have written "Gillikin"
when he intended to write "Quadling," or Ojo could have been mistaken about
the Hammer-Heads living on the mountain he could see. As it is, the TIK-TOK
maps place the house and forest in the southern Munchkin Country (although,
if I recall correctly, not all that close to the Hammer-Heads' territory),
while Haff and Martin placed them in the northern part of the blue quadrant
of Oz. Thompson was apparently working with the TIK-TOK map when she
decided on the location of Seebania, so perhaps she intended that Unc Nunkie
did not really travel very far before reaching the forest. On the other
hand, it seems as if Unc would have wanted to get as far from Seebanian
territory as possible, so that would actually support the idea of the Blue
Forest being on the other side of the country. Unc does say (p. 295), "I
made my way out of Seebania, traveling on and on until I came to the center
of an impenetrable forest." The indication seems to be that he traveled
some way from Seebania before stopping. (Note that Unc "found a little
house" in the forest, meaning that its original origins are still a
mystery.)

Further evidence for Ojo's house being in the north lies in the fact that,
while walking south, Ojo and his PATCHWORK GIRL companions pass the
Scarecrow, who is on his way to visit Jinjur. Jinjur lives in the northern
Munchkin Country, as evidenced by the fact that, in TIN WOODMAN, the heroes
come upon her house shortly after leaving the Gillikin Country. The
Scarecrow also plans to visit Jinjur while on the way south from the Ozure
Isles (in northern Munchkinland) in GIANT HORSE, although he never actually
reaches it. The only conflicting evidence for this is in OZMA, in which
Ozma's party visits Jinjur while on their way to the Emerald City via the
Yellow Brick Road. This could possibly be explained by saying that this is
the YBR that Ojo takes in PATCHWORK GIRL, rather than the one that Dorothy
uses in WIZARD. This is unlikely, however, since the Munchkins living near
the road recognize Dorothy, and there is a river that Ozma has to cross (an
obstacle that Ojo never came up against). Perhaps Jinjur moved off the
beaten path in between OZMA and PATCHWORK GIRL.

Getting back to OJO, we find Scraps wishing Dorothy, the Cowardly Lion, and
herself into a blue forest. Why Scraps's wish took effect is a mystery,
but, if it did, it would have taken them to the same forest in which the
gypsies were camped, right? Haff and Martin show them as two different
forests, however. The forest in which Scraps and her companions find
themselves is apparently the one where Dorothy first found the Cowardly
Lion, making it slightly odd that he doesn't seem to recognize it
(especially after the comment in COWARDLY LION that he knows ALL the forests
in Oz). The forest in which the gypsies camped, however, is shown as a
small one to the north of that. I think the best solution would actually be
to expand the forest so that it includes both of these woods. This would
help to explain how, in HIDDEN PRINCE, Chief Thundercloud and his companions
are able to reach the forest where the Tin Woodman and Cowardly Lion used to
live shortly after crossing the border from the Gillikin Country. There
also seems to have been a precedent for this kind of thing set when Eric
Shanower expanded the Quadling Forest for the WICKED WITCH map.

After leaving Crystal City, Ojo's party finds that a "forest edged the
rolling pasture to the west" (p. 125). Given that Thompson typically mixed
up east and west and this book, and the forest led to Tappy Town, which was
apparently closer to the Emerald City then Crystal City, shouldn't the
pasture be to the EAST?

Moojer Mountain seems to be quite close to the Emerald City, yet no one from
there seems to be aware of it, or of its namesake. It is, however, on the
bandits' map of Oz. If this is a version of Professor Wogglebug's map, that
suggests that HE knows of it, and, indeed, Haff and Martin place it fairly
close to his college. X. Pando, who lives there, calls it "Bear Mountain,"
and does not seem to be aware that his closest neighbor is a treacherous
magician and conqueror. (When I first read the book, I was thinking that
"Bear Mountain" might have been Snufferbux's original home, but there is no
indication of this.)

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Wed Dec 5, 2001  6:32 pm
Subject:  OJO missing old friends

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<While I basically agree with you, it could certainly be argued that the
GWN wasn't exactly a well-established character, since Baum only mentions
her twice (I think) after her somewhat major appearance in WIZARD. The
more annoying aspect to this transformation is that Thompson herself gives
the GWN a name, a home, two companions, and various magical items, and then
promptly discards most of them. There was definitely room for more
development than Thompson was willing to provide. As for the Scarecrow, he
decided NOT to be restored to his human body, so I wouldn't say ROYAL BOOK
ruined his character at all. The most annoying change for me was that of
Urtha being changed back into Princess Pretty Good. She not only gave up
her uniqueness, but also her fairy powers.>>

My criterion for a well-established character is one who's played an
important and visible role in at least one previous book. I put characters
who are transformed at the end of the book in which they first appear (Tip,
Urtha, et al.) in a different category because I assume the author had that
transformation in mind from the start. Overuse of that plot device might be
disappointing, hackneyed, or even a sign of prejudice against awkward
wooden dolls, but for me it doesn't have the same impact as changing a
character readers can come to know before they open the book.

I don't believe the revelations in ROYAL BOOK "ruined" the Scarecrow's
character, or even changed it in a notable way, but they did create a
history for him that a number of Oz fans dislike and some dismiss.

It's interesting what different reasons people give for disliking a major
character change and (in the case of some authors) bringing him or her
back. David Maxine seems to miss Ojo's pre-OJO ordinariness while you point
to how other characters lose their extraordinariness. Robin Olderman has
pointed out Thompson's tendency to turn old into young, unusual-appearing
into pretty. I tend to focus on personality and especially the potential
for internal conflict--in other words, I wouldn't mind Sir Hokus going off
to get married as long as he didn't have to become a contented young lug in
the process.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  David Hulan <davidhulan at n...>
Date:  Thu Dec 6, 2001  11:56 am
Subject:  OJO Mooj

J.L.:
>We should note that Glinda's Great Book of Records refers to Mooj as "The
>King of Seebania...taking steps to secure his crown" [190], with no hint
>that he's not the legitimate ruler.

I think you're misreading that passage. Since it occurs right after
Ree Alla Bad has had his adventure in Tappy Town, I think"taking
steps" is supposed to be a sly reference to that adventure, which the
clever reader will pick up when All Is Revealed at the end. Probably
too sly, since you surely qualify as a clever reader, but still, I
think it's similar to the "Ruggedo has something on his mind" line in
the GBR in KABUMPO. Presumably the GBR knows who the legitimate ruler
of Seebania is, since it seems to be omniscient.

From:  David Hulan <davidhulan at n...>
Date:  Thu Dec 6, 2001  12:06 pm
Subject:  Pronunciation

J.L.:
>I might be pronouncing Snoctorotomus wrong in my head. I've been seeing it
>as derived from "toro," or bull, and thus pronounced
>"snock-TORE-oh-TOE-mus." But Thompson may well have meant it to rhyme with
>hippopotamus: "SNOCK-tuh-ROT-uh-MUS."

The latter is how I've always pronounced it. I think it matches with
the "combinoceros" in PURPLE PRINCE, which seems to derive from
"rhinoceros." It seems doubtful that Thompson was thinking of "toro";
she doesn't seem to have had much interest in things Spanish as far
as I recall. Her human kingdoms seem to be linguistically based more
on Arabic (probably as filtered through English translations of the
Thousand and One Nights) than anything else - see Mudge, Rash,
Samandra, Seebania, Jinnicky's realm, and probably others that don't
come to mind at the moment. I don't recall a one that seems to have
Spanish-based names, though I may be forgetting (and if so I'm sure
that you and/or Nathan will remind me).

From:  David Hulan <davidhulan at n...>
Date:  Thu Dec 6, 2001  12:15 pm
Subject:  Re: OJO vs. Ojo

David M.:
>Ojo was also Baum's strongest
>boy, IMHO. Also it seemed neat that adventures happened to an everyday male
>kid for once. (Button Bright is too weak and Tip is a girl).

I think Zeb was a stronger boy than Ojo by a good bit, and I consider
him the real juvenile lead in DOTWIZ; Dorothy is pretty much just
along for the ride in that book, with the Wizard and Zeb taking all
the initiatives. (And occasionally Eureka or Jim.) And although Woot
is less active than Ojo, he seems to be made of sterner stuff. I
frankly didn't care much for Ojo in PG when I read it as a kid, and
still don't. He's sneaky, selfish, and prone to panic and depression.
He's rather less so in OJO, though some of those traits still come
out, as J.L. has said.

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Thu Dec 6, 2001  12:36 pm
Subject:  Ojo comments

I've been enjoying the discussion of "Ojo," although various time
constraints kept me from commenting before. Especially enjoyed J.L. Bell's
comments on RPT's extension of Ojo's character as established by Baum's
"Patchwork Girl," David Hulan's on why plot glitches, and Nathan deHoff's on
aspects of Oz history.

J.L. Bell commented on ways that "Ojo" reflects other plot set-ups RPT was
using, including "Pirates" theme of trying to be an outlaw.  "Ojo" in part
reverses the outlaw plot of "Pirates," in that Peter takes delightedly to
piracy, trying to encourage the reluctant Captain Salt to be more bloody,
bold, and resolute. (Well, more bold and resolute, anyway. He doesn't insist
on bloody.) Realbad is less bb&r than his band, but more so than Ojo can
accept, and the boy keeps trying to restrain the outlaw, unlike Peter/Salt.
Makes for a less amusing situation, but gives Realbad more internal conflict
to cope with, and so makes him -- not a more interesting character than the
Captain, but interesting in different ways. // On the Book of Records'
statement that the King of Seebania is "taking steps to secure his crown" --
so you think that refers to Mooj? Yes, I suppose that's the more likely. In
the past, I'd always thought it referred to Realbad's taking up with Ojo,
although Realbad doesn't know what consequences that act will have.

Nathan deHoff commented that Cheeriobed seems to be under enchantment and
cut off from the rest of Oz from before the time Ozma comes to the throne,
and that it's therefore odd that Ozma selected someone as King of the
Munchkins (appearing by title but without name in "Ozma" and "Road") who was
neither from Cheeriobed's powerful northern line nor from the powerful
Seebanian line. It's possible, as I've argued elsewhere, that there was a
time gap of a few years between the disappearance of Cheeriobed's father and
wife and the arrival of Quiberon cutting Cheeriobed off from the rest of Oz.
It seems likely to me that RPT was thinking of Cheeriobed as being the King
of the Munchkins who appears in the two earlier books (even though "Giant
Horse" does include one character's statement that the queen disappeared and
Quiberon arrived on the same day). Still, though, it would be possible
enough for Ozma to select a king who belonged to neither line, partly
because both lines were more or less in retreat and maybe partly because she
thought someone belonging to neither faction might have a better chance of
unifying the territory. (I don't suppose anyone wants to suggest that Mooj
was the King of the Munchkins Ozma selected?)

Ruth Berman

From:  Tigerbooks at a...
Date:  Thu Dec 6, 2001  10:43 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] Re: OJO vs. Ojo

davidhulan at ntsource.com writes:

I think Zeb was a stronger boy than Ojo by a good bit, and I consider
him the real juvenile lead in DOTWIZ;

Hmmm. I'm wondering if we have read different editions of DOT AND WIZ ? Zeb comes across
to me as a namby pamby hayseed that Dorothy has to tug all the way to safety.
While I am sure Zeb could beat Ojo up -- Zeb seem like he'll grow up to be a
red-neck thug. Perhaps he became one of the balding-potbellied middleaged
anti-union orchard owners in GRAPES OF WRATH : )

I frankly didn't care much for Ojo in PG when I read it as a kid, and
still don't. He's sneaky, selfish, and prone to panic and depression.
He's rather less so in OJO, though some of those traits still come
out, as J.L. has said.

Perhaps the discrepancy in our perceptions of Ojo has to do with sexual
preference? As a Gay kid I maybe I saw more of myself in Ojo than in Zeb?

Best, David M.  (who's still prone to panic and depression : )

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Fri Dec 7, 2001  9:59 am
Subject:  OJO Mooj

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<Mooj has held onto Seebania for years by the beginning of OJO, and we see
no sign that any other rulers have attempted to annex it. Perhaps his
employer fears Ozma's power too much to try something like this? Or maybe
Mooj's mission was simply to neutralize Seebania's power, rather than to
give it to another ruler?>>

Yes, often in Machiavellian foreign policy it's better to contain a rival
power or leave it crippled than to openly take over the populace and all
the headaches that go with them. The Su-dic didn't care about the Skeezers
so long as Coo-ee-oh no longer threatened his rule. When the Sultan of
Samandra believed his neighbors might gang up on him, he wiped them out but
never seems to have expanded his own sultanate to cover the missing kings' territories.
Good point about Mooj having a ready source of sapphires if he
hailed from the area of Lake Orizon--whether or not he had ties to the
Cheeriobed dynasty.

<<Considering Ojo's age in PATCHWORK GIRL, it must not have been very long
between Ozma's ascension to the throne and Ojo's birth (which occurred
shortly after Mooj's conquest of Seebania). Does anyone have any timely
estimates for when these events might have taken place? Don't forget that
Unc Nunkie was friends with Dr. Pipt after his escape from Seebania (I'm
assuming that Pipt didn't know him when he was a Prince, although the
crooked magician is aware of Unc's royal blood), but before the magician
started stirring the kettles for his second batch of Powder of Life, which
took six years.>>

I'm not so sure that Dr. Pipt didn't know Unc Nunkie as Stephen, prince of
Seebania. In PATCHWORK GIRL Margolotte says, "Unc Nunkie and my husband
used to be friends, many years ago." That could have been seven or eight
years before (before the magician started stirring), but when older people
speak of friends that way, it usually implies a longer relationship. In
addition, Glinda in LOST PRINCESS states that Unc Nunkie has traveled
extensively in Munchkinland; PATCHWORK GIRL and the books that followed
don't show that, which hints that he moved around before he settled in the
forest with Ojo.

Both Dr. Pipt and Unc Nunkie were in hiding before PATCHWORK GIRL;
in fact, both may have been living under assumed names. That would make
them sympathetic to each other, as well as giving each leverage over the
other to keep his own secret. Dr. Pipt may not know all about the situation
in Seebania or who Ojo is (and he's not necessarily the type to care), but
he could well know who Unc Nunkie was and keep the secret.
In OJO Thompson says her title character is a "lad of ten" [30].
Ojo doesn't seem to have changed since PATCHWORK GIRL, which implies he's
ten or nearly so in that book. That indeed squeezes events in Oz into a
tight time frame.

Ozma couldn't have taken her throne later than 1904, LAND's
publication date, while Unc Nunkie's breadfruit tree couldn't have failed
later than 1913. The smallest possible span between those events is about
seven years--time for Dr. Pipt to realize Mombi's Powder of Perpetual Youth
is a fake and to stir his kettles. For the longest span, we can push LAND
earlier a coupla years, but not many given how Dorothy was aging at the
time. In the decade or so between the events in LAND and PATCHWORK GIRL--
1) Ojo's grandfather pulled back the borders of Seebania [290].
2) Mooj arrived from the north and "in due time" insinuated himself
into the king's favor [291].
3) The King of Seebania vanished on a hunting trip; Mooj declared
himself king, and the next day threw Prince Ree Alla Bad off a cliff
[292-3].
4) Isomere gave birth to Ojo, probably seven or eight months after
Ree Alla Bad's disappearance since he has no inkling of his wife's
condition; Unc Nunkie took the baby to the north of Munchkinland [294-5].
5) Ojo aged nine or ten years--which he must have done with almost
no pauses at all.

(In other time notes from OJO, when the book starts Crystal City has been
frozen for fifty years [115], and Snuffer chained up for five [64].)

<<it's slightly difficult to reconcile with what we know from GIANT HORSE.
By the time Ozma came to the throne, the former King of the Munchkins (the
northern Munchkins, most likely) had been enchanted (and possibly
destroyed) by Mombi, and the Wicked Witch of the East (whose domain
probably consisted mostly of the central Munchkin Country) had been crushed
by Dorothy's house. Hence, there wasn't really any strong ruler in the
Munchkin Country aside from the King of Seebania. There is, however, a
King of the Munchkins in OZMA and ROAD, but we don't know who this is.
Wouldn't it have made sense to give that position to the King of Seebania,
who would presumably have become the most important ruler in Munchkinland
by that time?>>

Was the King of Seebania truly strong when Ozma came to the throne? The
evidence to that effect consists only of the biased statement of Seebanian
royalty and Mooj's desire to control the land (though he spends little time
there). Seebania couldn't shield central Munchkinland from the Wicked Witch
of the East, and Mooj's takeover went unnoticed by Ozma and Glinda.
How's this scenario instead? Seebania was in decline before
Dorothy's arrival in Oz. While still prosperous within its borders, it had
lost the allegiance of neighboring kingdoms because it couldn't protect
them from the Wicked Witch. But her sudden death opened a power vacuum in
Munchkinland.

Seebania's Prince Stephen began to campaign for the rotating
Munchkin kingship, which had last rested with the missing monarch of the
Ozure Isles. The prince set out on a diplomatic tour to secure or renew his
friendship with powerful Munchkins, including Dr. Pipt. The King of
Seebania took on a new wise man from the north to advise him in his
brother's place while he continued to indulge his fondness for hunting.
But shortly thereafter, to everyone's surprise, Glinda swooped in
from the south to put young Ozma on the throne of the Emerald City.
Munchkins flocked to her cause, eschewing a king of their own. (I'm not
convinced by the brief and questionable mentions of Munchkin kings in OZMA
and ROAD.) Prince Stephen retired to Seebania, where the king drew back on
claiming his realm's old territory, both saying they did so out of
deference to Ozma. At some point, with no one watching Seebania anymore,
Mooj struck.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Fri Dec 7, 2001  5:30 pm
Subject:  OJO Mooj

David Hulan wrote:
<<>We should note that Glinda's Great Book of Records refers to Mooj as "The
>King of Seebania...taking steps to secure his crown" [190], with no hint
>that he's not the legitimate ruler.

Since it occurs right after Ree Alla Bad has had his adventure in Tappy
Town, I think"taking steps" is supposed to be a sly reference to that
adventure, which the clever reader will pick up when All Is Revealed at the
end.>>

Ruth Berman wrote:
<<On the Book of Records' statement that the King of Seebania is "taking
steps to secure his crown" -- so you think that refers to Mooj? Yes, I
suppose that's the more likely. In the past, I'd always thought it referred
to Realbad's taking up with Ojo, although Realbad doesn't know what
consequences that act will have.>>

I first thought the Great Book's notice might refer to Ree Alla Bad, too,
but I can't make that interpretation stick. I checked Ken Shepherd's
chronologies (in the Nonestica files on Yahoo) to be sure I'd read things
properly, and he too thinks that Ozma reaches Glinda's palace one day
BEFORE Realbad and Ojo enter Tappy Town. And the entry about the King of
Seebania seems to belong to the day before that, when Ojo was kidnapped, or
even earlier. Ozma has to turn a page to get to the present day [189-90].

On the other hand, Mooj has undoubtedly been taking steps to secure his
place as monarch of Seebania:
"Why have you offered a reward for the capture of Ojo, a harmless little Munchkin?"
"Because!...because he is the king's son and when he is safely out of the way I shall be Ruler of Seebania
forever and even longer." [277]

One curiosity about the episode in Glinda's palace is Unc Nunkie's lack of
response to the name Seebania. Surely he recognizes his home kingdom.
Whether he thinks of the "King of Seebania" as his brother, his nephew, or
Mooj, he must have some emotional response. And he's smart enough to put
that entry together with his great-nephew's disappearance.

We might see Unc Nunkie flirt with revealing his secret when he says Ojo is
"Not" an everyday boy [191], but he takes no other steps to tell Ozma about
Ojo's Seebanian connection. That would make sense if he's afraid that
revealing the secret would magically harm him or someone he loves (as in
LOST KING). But Unc Nunkie does nothing to keep himself and the Wizard's
search party away from Seebania, either.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Fri Dec 7, 2001  5:30 pm
Subject:  OJO infidelity

I can't think of examples from the Oz canon of unfaithful spouses, in the
sense of a husband or wife taking up with another person, but there are
examples of simple desertion. TIN WOODMAN revolves around a fiance who's
gone off to the city and left his betrothed behind. The plot of OZMA is set
in motion by a father deserting his wife and children, and the king of
Oogaboo has done the same less cruelly before TIK-TOK.

As Eric Shanower has said, it's unlikely that broken marriages in Oz would
have been reported to young readers. The integrity of the parental bond is
fundamental for children, and in a society with far less divorce than ours
(though perhaps a comparable amount of separation--see Trot's parents) the
Oz authors may have felt no need to discuss the fragility of marriage.

Getting back to Ree Alla Bad and Isomere, I have to wonder why he still has
both the rings from his christening. They protect their wearers, but warn
of danger only when they're separated. They thus seem tailored for a young
prince to give to his bride. Why hasn't Ree Alla Bad done so? Or perhaps he
did give Isomere one ring, but she gave it back.

It's also worthwhile to look at Ree Alla Bad's departure from Isomere's
point of view. That's hard since she never speaks, but we can at least
consider possibilities. When Mooj takes over Seebania, he cast a spell that
renders the populace (including her?) loyal to him as the new king. A
couple of days later Ree Alla Bad promises (publicly?) never to return to
his wife and then disappears. From Isomere's perspective, what her husband
later describes as leaving to save her life might well look like
desertion--and after getting her pregnant, yet!

According to Ree Alla Bad, Mooj first made him pledge not to return and
then pushed him off a cliff. Mooj seems to be a belts-and-suspenders type
of guy, taking two steps instead of one just to be careful. That fits with
his decision after many years of seemingly undisturbed rule to offer a
reward for Ojo--the action that ultimately leads to his downfall.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Fri Dec 7, 2001  11:14 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] OJO and the Munchkin kingship

J. L. Bell:
>In addition, Glinda in LOST PRINCESS states that Unc Nunkie has traveled
>extensively in Munchkinland; PATCHWORK GIRL and the books that followed
>don't show that, which hints that he moved around before he settled in the
>forest with Ojo.

Early on in OJO, Unc Nunkie is remembering a visit he made to the King of
the White Mountains. No indication as given as to when this happened or
where the White Mountains are, but Haff and Martin place them in the
east-central Munchkin Country.

> In OJO Thompson says her title character is a "lad of ten" [30].
>Ojo doesn't seem to have changed since PATCHWORK GIRL, which implies he's
>ten or nearly so in that book. That indeed squeezes events in Oz into a
>tight time frame.
> Ozma couldn't have taken her throne later than 1904, LAND's
>publication date, while Unc Nunkie's breadfruit tree couldn't have failed
>later than 1913. The smallest possible span between those events is about
>seven years--time for Dr. Pipt to realize Mombi's Powder of Perpetual Youth
>is a fake and to stir his kettles. For the longest span, we can push LAND
>earlier a coupla years, but not many given how Dorothy was aging at the
>time.

In addition to the aging of Dorothy, Button-Bright should probably be
considered. He's quite young in ROAD, possibly four or five. I believe he
is mentioned in SCARECROW as being younger than Trot, who is ten according
to GIANT HORSE, so he's probably nine at the most in that book.

> How's this scenario instead? Seebania was in decline before
>Dorothy's arrival in Oz. While still prosperous within its borders, it had
>lost the allegiance of neighboring kingdoms because it couldn't protect
>them from the Wicked Witch. But her sudden death opened a power vacuum in
>Munchkinland.
> Seebania's Prince Stephen began to campaign for the rotating
>Munchkin kingship, which had last rested with the missing monarch of the
>Ozure Isles.

Actually, that brings up an interesting point. Before his father's
disappearance, Cheeriobed's official title was "Prince of the Ozure Isles."
There is no indication that his father lived there, however. In fact,
doesn't GIANT HORSE say that Cheeriobed was "sent word" that his father had
vanished? If they had been living in the same castle, there would have been
no need for this.

> But shortly thereafter, to everyone's surprise, Glinda swooped in
>from the south to put young Ozma on the throne of the Emerald City.
>Munchkins flocked to her cause, eschewing a king of their own. (I'm not
>convinced by the brief and questionable mentions of Munchkin kings in OZMA
>and ROAD.)

So do you think the mentions of such kings were mistakes on the part of the
Royal Historian, or references to someone (possibly Boq or another prominent
figure) who served as a figurehead in the absence of a strong central power?
(The Quadling and Gillikin rulers mentioned in these books were apparently
also figureheads, since Glinda and Tattypoo held the real power in these
territories.)

>Prince Stephen retired to Seebania, where the king drew back on
>claiming his realm's old territory, both saying they did so out of
>deference to Ozma. At some point, with no one watching Seebania anymore,
>Mooj struck.

Sounds like a good theory to me.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Fri Dec 7, 2001  11:20 pm
Subject:  OJO gypsies, tramps, and thieves

Thompson begins her author's note for OJO by writing, "I have always longed
to travel off with gypsies, or live in the green forest with a band of
outlaws." But as we read on, she depicts those two groups very
differently.

From the beginning, Thompson sets the gypsies off by their physical
appearance, not just by what they wear or do. They are "swarthy-skinned,"
their children "bright-eyed" [20]. They speak in a "strange and unfamiliar
tongue" [29].

Thompson shows the gypsies going out of their way to be nasty to Ojo. Chief
Zithero calls him names and clips him on the ear for not working fast
enough [41, 44]. Even the children are "little rascals" who beat up the new
boy and steal everything of value from his pockets [30] (except, curiously,
"a bent fishing hook and a couple of marbles" [263]). For no apparent
reason, these "ragged little gypsies" make "awful faces" at Ojo and throw
"jeers and taunts" his way [42, 45].

Although Realbad and his 25 outlaws do the same thing as the gypsies--take
Ojo by force in order to sell him for Mooj's sapphires--Thompson portrays
them as jolly rogues. Both Noma and Realbad sing paeans to the vagabond
criminal life, but Thompson says the gypsy woman "croaked" her words,
"leering through the steam like a mischievous goblin" [44]; in contrast,
Realbad performs with "a good-natured grin,...slapping his sword gaily
against his boot" [51].

Realbad is, of course, exceptionally noble among the outlaws. Thompson's
comments hint at class prejudice: Ojo thinks he's "more distinguished than
the finest gentlemen at Ozma's court" because of "the way he stands"
[49-50]. He seems responsible for the outlaws' gentle treatment of their
captives. While the gypsy children and Zithero roughed up Ojo and Snuffer,
when the bandits arrive "The women and children were not molested" [51] and
"none of the [gypsies] had been injured" [48].

But even beyond Realbad, Thompson assigns the bandits appeal that the
gypsies never get. She struggles a bit with making their personalities
consistent. Smackemback "always seemed to be good-natured and jolly,"
according to page 76, but his cheer seems sarcastic on page 68. On page 52,
Thompson establishes the outlaw named Tiny as the dumb one: he
"stupidly...understood half of what he had heard." But it's Tiny who
recognizes that Realbad is "soft...with the boy" and unlikely to carry back
5,000 bags of sapphires [82]. Tiny has the heart to ask Snuffer, "Are you
kind to little fish and children"? [64], and he's a good editor:
"Begin at the middle and leave out all dates, all
favorite uncles and aunts, stone bruises, fish you
have caught, all pet turtles, guinea pigs, white
mice, puppies and don't bother about Christmas and
birthday presents!" [67]

("I wasn't going to!" Ojo protests.) Thompson needs villains beyond the
gypsies, but she can't make these bandits complete villains like the
mutinous pirates in PIRATES.

At the end of OJO, Ozma moves the bandits from "a distant mountain plateau"
to "a quiet valley near the Winkie River," having transformed them "into
simple Winkie farmers" [297]. For many people, this would be a reward, not
a punishment. In contrast, she banishes the gypsies from Oz altogether,
"sending them by her magic to wander through the countries of Southern
Europe" [293].

Thompson had no way of knowing that in a few years Hitler's regime would be
trying to exterminate the gypsies in Europe, including even their
"bright-eyed" children. But her portrayal of gypsies as innately nasty and
thieving, even worse than the worst bandits, was the same that spurred on
Third Reich policy.

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<Moojer Mountain seems to be quite close to the Emerald City, yet no one
from there seems to be aware of it, or of its namesake. It is, however, on
the bandits' map of Oz. If this is a version of Professor Wogglebug's map,
that suggests that HE knows of it, and, indeed, Haff and Martin place it
fairly close to his college. X. Pando, who lives there, calls it "Bear
Mountain," and does not seem to be aware that his closest neighbor is a
treacherous magician and conqueror.>>

My best explanation for this phenomenon is that Moojer Mountain is the name
used by outlaws and outcasts, those to whom Mooj would have distributed his
ransom offer, but not by mainstream Ozians. Prof. Wogglebug and X. Pando
would know that peak only as Bear Mountain. The outlaws' map, perhaps
dating from when wicked magicians plagued Oz, would have the
"underground"
names.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Fri Dec 7, 2001  11:27 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] OJO infidelity

J. L. Bell:
>It's also worthwhile to look at Ree Alla Bad's departure from Isomere's
>point of view. That's hard since she never speaks, but we can at least
>consider possibilities. When Mooj takes over Seebania, he cast a spell that
>renders the populace (including her?) loyal to him as the new king. A
>couple of days later Ree Alla Bad promises (publicly?) never to return to
>his wife and then disappears.

We don't know that he ever made a public announcement of this sort. In
fact, from his own story, it sounds as if he and Mooj walked directly from
the dungeon to the ravine, without stopping to talk to anyone on the way.

>From Isomere's perspective, what her husband
>later describes as leaving to save her life might well look like
>desertion--and after getting her pregnant, yet!

Yes, or she could have thought he was dead (or destroyed; we don't know for
sure whether immortality had become commonplace in Oz by this point).

Nathan

From:  "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <DinnerBell at t...>
Date:  Sat Dec 8, 2001  2:03 pm
Subject:  Re: [Nonestica] OJO gypsies, tramps, and thieves

>At the end of OJO, Ozma moves the bandits from "a distant mountain plateau"
>to "a quiet valley near the Winkie River," having transformed them "into
>simple Winkie farmers" [297]. For many people, this would be a reward, not
>a punishment.

It opens the question as to exactly how you could transform a bandit into a
farmer, and how she would make sure these farmers never made attempts to rob
anyone. Also note that Ozma has to locate the bandits before she can
transform and transport them, possibly hinting at a limitation of the Magic
Belt's power. If this limitation were not in place, Ozma could presumably
have just transported Ojo back to the Emerald City, without bothering to
find out where he was, but such was not the case. It would be interesting
to compare this to other reports of magic using the Belt, but I don't have
the time right now.

>In contrast, she banishes the gypsies from Oz altogether,
>"sending them by her magic to wander through the countries of Southern
>Europe" [293].
>
>Thompson had no way of knowing that in a few years Hitler's regime would be
>trying to exterminate the gypsies in Europe, including even their
>"bright-eyed" children. But her portrayal of gypsies as innately nasty and
>thieving, even worse than the worst bandits, was the same that spurred on
>Third Reich policy.

Quite true. Isn't this the first time Ozma has deported anyone from Oz? I
guess you could count Ruggedo, who, at the end of KABUMPO, was revoked of
the Oz citizenship that he gained in MAGIC, and banished to Runaway Island.
The former Nome King apparently caused much more trouble than the gypsies
did, though. Incidentally, in FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN, Toby tells us that his
father and uncles were transported to an island in the Nonestic Ocean by
Tattypoo, so other Ozian rulers must have used deportation from Oz as a
punishment, and in a less potentially racist manner.

Nathan

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sat Dec 8, 2001  3:35 pm
Subject:  les boys

David Maxine wrote:
<<Zeb comes across to me as a namby pamby hayseed that Dorothy has to tug
all the way to safety. While I am sure Zeb could beat Ojo up -- Zeb seem
like he'll grow up to be a red-neck thug. Perhaps he became one of the
balding-potbellied middleaged anti-union orchard owners in GRAPES OF
WRATH>>

I agree there's definitely something Steinbeckian about Zeb, but I start
with THE RED PONY and OF MICE AND MEN's picture of those California
ranches. I don't see him as "namby-pamby," but he's clearly out of his
depth and (unlike our adventurous Dorothy) doesn't enjoy that feeling. When
assigned an important task (e.g., do the following things to prepare our
escape), Zeb performs very well. But he's usually so overwhelmed by the
magic he's witnessing that he makes few plans on his own. That's where
Dorothy's contribution comes in. Though in this book's action she's usually
in the background, she and the Wizard provide the spirit and drive to get
the party through.

I'm trying to think if I had any particular favorites among Baum's young
heroes, and what if anything that might say about my personality,
sexuality, life situation, or preference in clothing. I don't recall
preferring one boy over another the way I liked Trot a little bit better
among the girls. I guess I'll say only that Woot has been unduly neglected.


J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sat Dec 8, 2001  4:47 pm
Subject:  OJO Mooj

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<>When Mooj takes over Seebania, he cast a spell that
>renders the populace (including her?) loyal to him as the new king. A
>couple of days later Ree Alla Bad promises (publicly?) never to return to
>his wife and then disappears.

We don't know that he ever made a public announcement of this sort. In
fact, from his own story, it sounds as if he and Mooj walked directly from
the dungeon to the ravine, without stopping to talk to anyone on the
way.>>

Yes, that's Ree Alla Bad's story, but he'd have a good reason not to
recount such a painful moment as renouncing his wife, especially when
speaking in front of her and their child.

The slight evidence for such a public event lies in Mooj's insistence on
making the prince "promise" not to return to Seebania [292]. Why did the
new king need that promise? Mooj already had the Seebanians' loyalty and
the power to punish Ree Alla Bad if he returned. The promise may thus have
been meant for someone else to hear.

Note that if Isomere had been wearing one of Ree Alla Bad's protective
rings, the prince would have known that Mooj couldn't harm her. That rules
out the scenario that Ree Alla Bad reluctantly told his new bride that he
was leaving her forever and Isomere responded by throwing back his ring.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Sat Dec 8, 2001  4:47 pm
Subject:  regional monarchs

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<So do you think the mentions of such kings were mistakes on the part of
the Royal Historian, or references to someone (possibly Boq or another
prominent figure) who served as a figurehead in the absence of a strong
central power? (The Quadling and Gillikin rulers mentioned in these books
were apparently also figureheads, since Glinda and Tattypoo held the real
power in these territories.)>>

The passage in OZMA:
They began the trip across the desert early in
the morning, and as they stopped only long enough
for Billina to lay her daily egg, before sunset
they espied the green slopes and wooded hills of
the beautiful Land of Oz. They entered it in the
Munchkin territory, and the King of the Munchkins
met them at the border and welcomed Ozma with
great respect, being very pleased by her safe
return. For Ozma of Oz ruled the King of the
Munchkins, the King of the Winkies, the King of
the Quadlings and the King of the Gillikins just
as those kings ruled their own people; and this
supreme ruler of the Land of Oz lived in a great
town of her own, called the Emerald City, which
was in the exact center of the four kingdoms of
the Land of Oz.

The Munchkin king entertained them at his
palace that night, and in the morning they set
out for the Emerald City, travelling over a road
of yellow brick that led straight to the jewel-
studded gates.

And the sentences in ROAD:
Then came the Rulers of the four Kingdoms of Oz:
the Emperor of the Winkies, the Monarch of the
Munchkins, the King of the Quadlings and the
Sovereign of the Gillikins, each wearing a long
chain of emeralds around his neck to show that
he was a vassal of the Ruler of the Emerald City.  ...
The Woggle-Bug and Jack Pumpkinhead were next,
and behind them Glinda the Sorceress and the
Good Witch of the North.

I see reasons to doubt these passages' implication that there are monarchs
of any meaningful power and permanence over the Munchkin and Gillikin
territories while Baum was reporting on Oz.

Problem #1: Every Oz book includes a description of the four main
quadrants of Oz and Ozian celebrities, yet there's no other mention of
these rulers. We never learn their names, histories, or personalities.
Their homes don't appear on the TIK-TOK map. If they vanish before GIANT
HORSE, they do so without Ozma or Glinda ever showing any notice or
interest. The equivalent passages in Thompson's books after GIANT HORSE are
quite different. This is negative evidence, but significant.

#2: The TIK-TOK map and all subsequent books put Ev across the
Deadly Desert from the Winkie Country, not the Munchkins.

#3: As you note, the mentions of a "King of the Quadlings" directly
contradict the many passages which show that Glinda rules the South. A
"King/Sovereign of the Gillikins" also bumps up against what we're told
about the Good Witch of the North. Those unreliable details in turn cast
doubt on the same passages' mention of a "King/Monarch of the
Munchkins."

I think the simplest way to solve these problems is that Baum was mistaken
on two points.

First, Ozma's army in OZMA returned through the Winkie Country and
stayed at the Tin Woodman's castle. Having learned of Dorothy's meeting
with Jinjur, Baum wrongly assumed that was on the same trip. In that case,
the army would have passed through Munchkinland. Whose castle would they
haved stayed at? Well, the king's. And wouldn't that king have welcomed his
sovereign at the border? And if the Munchkins had a king, wouldn't the
other peoples of Oz have one, too? (Baum did love his symmetry.)
Second, the people who represented the four quadrants of Oz in
Ozma's birthday parade weren't all rulers of those regions. Nick Chopper
was, but we can be sure the "King of the Quadlings" wasn't. With his
interest in pomp and symmetry, Baum assumed otherwise. I don't think the
Munchkin, Quadling, and Gillikin representatives necessarily even had
permanent positions, given how the rest of the books don't mention them at
all.

Of course, other readers have preferred other explanations. Ruth Berman's
"Rulers.txt" article in the Nonestica files proposes another arrangement,
for instance. My main objection to such theories is that I can't imagine
Ozma appointing regional rulers early in her reign and then evidently not
caring about their disappearance before GIANT HORSE--not unless there's a
lot more turmoil going on in Oz than she's allowed the royal historians to
report. And if she's managing the news and covering up events to that
extent, a great deal of what we consider Ozian history is
suspect--including but also going well beyond the two passages quoted
above.

J. L. Bell JnoLBell at c...

From:  "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at m...>
Date:  Mon Dec 10, 2001  1:07 pm
Subject:  ojo & banquets & canons in oz

J. L. Bell commented on David Hulan's:
> > Since [Great Book of Records' reference to the King's steps to secure
his crown] occurs right after Ree Alla Bad has had his adventure in Tappy
Town, I think"taking steps" is supposed to be a sly reference to that
adventure, which the clever reader will pick up when All Is Revealed at the
end.>>
> I first thought the Great Book's notice might refer to Ree Alla Bad, too,
but I can't make that interpretation stick. I checked Ken Shepherd's
chronologies (in the Nonestica files on Yahoo) to be sure I'd read things
properly, and he too thinks that Ozma reaches Glinda's palace one day
BEFORE Realbad and Ojo enter Tappy Town. And the entry about the King of
Seebania seems to belong to the day before that, when Ojo was kidnapped, or
even earlier. Ozma has to turn a page to get to the present day [189-90].
<

The pun on taking steps sounds as if RPT might have lost track of the
chronology between the two plot-lines at that point. But would the
connection really be the first day Ojo was kidnapped or earlier? It wouldn't
need to be as far along as Tappy Town -- if the Record Book's reference was
made when Realbad found Ojo in the gypsy camp and gave him the ring, that
would also be a step (although not consciously intended as such) towards
getting the crown back. // On why the second ring was not given to
Isomere -- possibly she had some kind of magical protection of her own not
reported in the story?

Nathan DeHoff: wrote
> Before his father's disappearance, Cheeriobed's official title was "Prince
of the Ozure Isles." There is no indication that his father lived there,
however. In fact, doesn't GIANT HORSE say that Cheeriobed was "sent word"
that his father had vanished? If they had been living in the same castle,
there would have been no need for this. <

Interesting thought. If his father lived elsewhere, would it work to suppose
that the two lines of Munchkin kings are really the same, and Cheeriobed and
Ree Alla Bad are either brothers or uncle/nephew? // You may be right in
suggesting that "Alberif" is modeled on Berman "Alberich" rather than an
Arabic al-something. Incidentally, alberich means elf-ruler, and led not
only to the character of the dwarf Alberich in Wagner's Ring Cycle, but to
the French dwarf-sized elf-king Oberon on the French story of "Huon of
Bordeaux" and so to Shakespeare's Oberon. // How magic transforms Munchkin
outlaws into Winkie farmers -- maybe not so much by doing anything to them
as by just transferring them to the territory, clearing it, and providing
supplies to get them going on it. They might by then be worried enough about
getting severer punishment to try putting up with becoming farmers instead
of just turning themselves into Winkie outlaws.

Ruth Berman

From:  "J. L. Bell" <JnoLBell at c...>
Date:  Mon Dec 10, 2001  8:49 pm
Subject:  regional monarchs

Nathan DeHoff wrote:
<<at the time of WIZARD, the Quadlings' territory seems to include only
land south of the Hammer-Heads' mountains. By EMERALD CITY, at least, the
entire southern quadrant is known as the Quadling Country. (Dorothy
mentions travelling "straight ahead into the Quadling Country" from the
Emerald City). Perhaps the King of the Quadlings ruled the rest of we know
as the Quadling Country, but later resigned and turned the territory over
to Glinda. I don't know whether this theory really works, though; it could
simply be the ignorance of Dorothy and her friends that leads them to think
that "the Quadling Country" does not begin until after the Hammer-Heads'
territory.>>

That explanation for the "King of the Quadlings" would mean that he was
actually "king of everything in the south but the Quadlings," making his
title quite a contradiction.

I think that despite WIZARD's color scheme Quadlingland always included the
"brown" space south of the Emerald City. As with Ozma and the Forest of
Gugu, Glinda didn't necessar