Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:44:42 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] Mo & quake upcoming events

I've been re-reading "Mo" this week, in the copy I've had since childhood,
with Evelyn Copelman's illos. I think I want to re-read this version (I know
of one very minor change between Baum's text and this late reprint), partly
for nostalgia, and partly with the idea then of re-reading the older copy
(with Verbeck illos) I acquired later to see if there are any other textual
changes that might be noticeable. When I first got interested in Baum and
Oz, and learned from Jack Snow's "Who's Who" about all those books Baum set
in the Other Countries on the Oz map, I found that the only non-Oz Baum
books then in print were "Jaglon and the Tiger Fairies," which was Reilly &
Lee's test to see if there would be a market for picture book versions of
the individual Animal Fairy Stories (they evidently decided there wasn't),
and from Bobbs-Merrill "Mo" (and "Songs of Father Goose").  Unlike R&L, which
had some 40 Oz books to focus on and use to promote the sales of each from
the encouragement of the others, Bobbs-Merrill had only "The Wizard," a
perennial big seller, for an Oz book. So having no other Oz books to group
with it to encourage multiple sales, they scrupulously kept in print their 2
non-Oz Baum books.

In more recent years, all of Baum's major fantasy stories have been
reprinted in various editions, and although they're not necessarily all in
print at any one time, used copies of all of them are now fairly easy to
find at any time. (And the libraries have come around at last to figuring
that Baum and Oz are worth their readers' attention, and have bought copies
of many of the recent reprints.)

Ruth Berman

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:47:24 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] mo
 
"The Magical Monarch of Mo" has a decidedly Baumish flavor rather than the
close Carrollian flavor the original title of "A New Wonderland" would
suggest, but I notice re-reading it now more Carrollian bits than I had
before. Before, I would have pointed mainly to Duchess Bredenbutta's visit
(was she named after Carroll's bread-and-butterflies in "Looking Glass") to
Turvyland, which does have very much a Carrollian flavor to the fall through
a hole to a topsyturvyland where things are nonsensical and the reverse of
our ways (cf. Alice's fall down rabbithole to Wonderland, and wondering on
the way if she'll come out in the "Antipathies," where people go about with
their feet up and their heads down, and the mirror-image Looking Glass
material). But there are a lot of smaller Carrollian bits -- the King loses
his temper with the Tramp Dog (like the LG Queen's exam question about the
temper as what remains when you take a bone from a dog), maxims that are
wildly understated (Alice knows that bottles marked poison are likely to
disagree with you sooner or later, the King knows that if he forces one of
his daughters to marry a woodenheaded man, she will probably call him a
blockhead, "a term almost certainly to cause trouble in any family"), Zingle
resents being ordered around by the monkeys (like Alice, who gets tired of
being ordered around by the Wonderland animals).

There are also a couple of bits that echo Carroll's less well known "Sylvie
and Bruno"/"Sylvie and Bruno Concluded" (an uneven story with a lot of
wonderful and a lot of tedious material inextricably mixed). The King gets
out of the hole by turning it upside down, thus putting himself at the top
isntead of the bottom, which is like the Professor's method for getting over
a fence (the head is already high enough, so he stands on his head to get
the feet high enough, and then he's over); the elephant in the Birthday
surprises jumps down her own throat and vanishes, in the same way that the
crocodile in Bruno's Tale starts walking on its own tail and walks up the
back and down into the mouth, swallowing itself.

Not a Carroll influence -- is it stretching too much to suspect that
Timtom's Bird, worrying that the new song sounds too much like a comic
opera, has received from Gilbert & Sullivan's "Mikado" the suicidal bird's
refrain "Willow, tit-willow, tit-willow"?

Probably more comments later.

Ruth Berman

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:39:44 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] bobbs-merrill, mo

Mo has one of Baum's strongest villains (giving a certain amount of unity to
the narrative, even though it's really structured as a bunch of individual
short stories) in the Purple Dragon. This is a point I've commented on
before, but I can't resist mentioning the historical oddity that 1898/99 was
the Year of the Dragon, after a couple of centuries when dragons were rare
(and not particularly notable when they did appear) in stories. Baum's
Purple Dragon, Nesbit's "Book of Dragons," and Grahame's "Reluctant Dragon"
came out too close for any of them to have influenced the others, and all
with impressive dragons.

Ruth Berman

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:40:35 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] wizard & mo

I've started re-reading "Mo" now with Verbeck illos. I don't think I like
these illos much. Copelman's illos aren't among my favorites, but I think I
prefer her Mo to Verbeck's -- unless the Donahue reprint did particularly
badly by Verbeck. (And I think my copy may be missing some of the color
plates. I should probably look also at the Dover paperback reprint to
compare how his illos look there.)

The iron giant is rather like Baum's later Giant with the Hammer in "Ozma."
He's similarly mindless, although surprisingly ticklish. Should we guess
that King Scowleyow got him from Smith & Tinker? (It would be a long way to 
make the delivery, and the giant doesn't seem to have enough in the way of a
reliable guidance system to be trusted to make the journey on foot and
deliver himself, but shipping by sea would probably be feasible.)

Ruth Berman

Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:04:05 -0500
From: "J. L. Bell" <jnolbell at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Regalia] Re: iron giant

Ruth Berman wrote:
> The iron giant is rather like Baum's later Giant with the Hammer in "Ozma."
> He's similarly mindless, although surprisingly ticklish. Should we guess
> that King Scowleyow got him from Smith & Tinker? (It would be a long way to
> make the delivery, and the giant doesn't seem to have enough in the way of a
> reliable guidance system to be trusted to make the journey on foot and
> deliver himself, but shipping by sea would probably be feasible.)

I think of Mo as cut off from most of the continent when it comes to
commerce--not just because of the surrounding mountains but because its
odd flora and climate means that the people of Mo don't lack for much.
But Scowleyow's kingdom might not have those advantages, and therefore
might have developed more trade, even as far as Ev.

J. L. Bell                
JnoLBell at earthlink.net

Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:02:48 -0500
From: "J. L. Bell" <jnolbell at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Regalia] Re: dragon hunting

Ruth Berman wrote:
> This is a point I've commented on
> before, but I can't resist mentioning the historical oddity that 1898/99 was
> the Year of the Dragon, after a couple of centuries when dragons were rare 
> (and not particularly notable when they did appear) in stories. Baum's
> Purple Dragon, Nesbit's "Book of Dragons," and Grahame's "Reluctant Dragon"
> came out too close for any of them to have influenced the others, and all
> with impressive dragons.

There we might be seeing the influence of Wagner in England and America.
Fafnir was a major character in the RING cycle, of course. Those operas
premiered in the 1870s, but may have become popular outside Germany only
a generation later.

Another source of dragons for children's writers was the legend of St.
George. Nesbit's "Saviours of Their Country" from THE BOOK OF DRAGONS 
makes an explicit link to that old tale.

But perhaps we could find a more recent tradition of dragons than that.
Nathaniel Hawthorne wrote about one like a giant serpent in his story
"Dragon's Teeth" from TANGLEWOOD TALES (1853):
++++++++
Running towards the tuft of trees, he beheld the head and fiery eyes of
an immense serpent or dragon, with the widest jaws that ever a dragon
had, and a vast many rows of horribly sharp teeth. Before Cadmus could
reach the spot, this pitiless reptile had killed his poor companions,
and was busily devouring them, making but a mouthful of each man.

It appears that the fountain of water was enchanted, and that the dragon
had been set to guard it, so that no mortal might ever quench his thirst
there. As the neighboring inhabitants carefully avoided the spot, it was
now a long time (not less than a hundred years or thereabouts) since the
monster had broken his fast; and, as was natural enough, his appetite
had grown to be enormous, and was not half satisfied by the poor people
whom he had just eaten up. When he caught sight of Cadmus, therefore, he
set up another abominable hiss, and flung back his immense jaws, until
his mouth looked like a great red cavern, at the farther end of which
were seen the legs of his last victim, whom he had hardly had time to
swallow.

But Cadmus was so enraged at the destruction of his friends that he
cared neither for the size of the dragon's jaws nor for his hundreds of
sharp teeth. Drawing his sword, he rushed at the monster, and flung
himself right into his cavernous mouth. This bold method of attacking
him took the dragon by surprise; for, in fact, Cadmus had leaped so far
down into his throat, that the rows of terrible teeth could not close
upon him, nor do him the least harm in the world. Thus, though the
struggle was a tremendous one, and though the dragon shattered the tuft
of trees into small splinters by the lashing of his tail, yet, as Cadmus
was all the while slashing and stabbing at his very vitals, it was not
long before the scaly wretch bethought himself of slipping away. He had
not gone his length, however, when the brave Cadmus gave him a sword
thrust that finished the battle; and creeping out of the gateway of the
creature's jaws, there he beheld him still wriggling his vast bulk,
although there was no longer life enough in him to harm a little child.
++++++++

Baum clearly knew Hawthorne's writings. But his conception of dragons,
breathing fire and flapping wings, stands more in the tradition of the
creature Howard Pyle wrote about in "Empty Bottles", published in the
late 1880s:
++++++++
But when Gebhart saw what he saw within the gates his heart crumbled
away for fear, and his knees knocked together; for there, in the very
middle of the way, stood a monstrous, hideous dragon, that blew out
flames and clouds of smoke from his gaping mouth like a chimney a-fire.

But the wise master was as cool as smooth water; he thrust his hand into
the bosom of his jacket and drew forth a little black box, which he
flung straight into the gaping mouth.

Snap!--the dragon swallowed the box.

The next moment it gave a great, loud, terrible cry, and, clapping and
rattling its wings, leaped into the air and flew away, bellowing like a
bull.
++++++++

There's also "the great fiery dragon with three heads that had
threatened to lay waste all of that land, unless the pretty princess
were given up to him," in Pyle's THE WONDER CLOCK (1887).

Hawthorne's and Pyle's dragons don't speak English, however, while
Baum's certainly do (just as Wagner's sang in German).

J. L. Bell                
JnoLBell at earthlink.net

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:28:39 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] Re: dragon hunting

On 3/4/06, J. L. Bell <jnolbell at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Another source of dragons for children's writers was the legend of St.
> George. Nesbit's "Saviours of Their Country" from THE BOOK OF DRAGONS
> makes an explicit link to that old tale.

There's also a mention in YEW, when the dragon of Spor wants to make
sure that Prince Marvel isn't St. George in disguise.
--
Brick is red, and Hitler's dead,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org or fablesto at gmail.com

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:21:59 EST
From: AGannaway7 at aol.com
Subject: [Regalia] THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO

On 3/1/06, Ruth Berman wrote:

<<Not a Carroll influence -- is it stretching too much to suspect that
Timtom's Bird, worrying that the new song sounds too much like a comic 
opera, has received from Gilbert & Sullivan's "Mikado" the suicidal  bird's
refrain "Willow, tit-willow, tit-willow"?>>

I wouldn't say so. A researcher from Aberdeen told me that Baum was heavily 
involved in theater when he lived there, and worked on and/or performed in at 
least one G&S production. I dimly recall it might have been several, but 
wouldn't swear to it.

While I am finding Ruth's comments interesting, I don't think I'll have time
this month to participate in the MO discussion (and, to be honest, MO isn't
among my favorites), but I'll watch (and archive) from the  sidelines.

Atticus Gannaway

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:18:16 -0600 
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] giants & dragons & others

"J. L. Bell"
<jnolbell at earthlink.net> wrote: 

> I think of Mo as cut off from most of the continent when it comes to
> commerce--not just because of the surrounding mountains but because its
> odd flora and climate means that the people of Mo don't lack for much. But 
> Scowleyow's kingdom might not have those advantages, and therefore might
> have developed more trade, even as far as Ev. >

Looking at the passage again, I see that the narrative says the iron giant
was designed and constructed by Scowleyow and his engineers. So pretty
clearly no involvement from Smith & Tinker after all. (As you point out,
Scowleyow might have incentive to do more trading more than Mo does, so I
suppose Scowleyow might have been in touch with S&T for some assistance in
the design, but he was evidently the one responsible for the design. Next
question -- was his wickedness as king partly a result of being unhappy with
the job, since he obviously had so much more genius for engineering than for
governing, or in the context of this story is a genius for engineering
evidence of wickedness as already present and inherent in interest in
designing big machines to industrialize with?)

> There [1898/99 emergence of fictional dragons] we might be seeing the
> influence of Wagner in England and America. Fafnir was a major character
> in the RING cycle, of course. Those operas premiered in the 1870s, but may 
> have become popular outside Germany only a generation later. >

Probably so. You also mention the legend of St. George (and as Nathan points
out, Baum cites it in "Yew") and Hawthorne's retelling of Greek myths with
dragons. Hawthorne's version specifically might have attracted Baum's
attention, but the myths and legends had been around in a good many versions
for a long time, so they don't really bear on why the sudden burst of
dragons in narrative after a couple of centuries of non-use Thanks for
locating Pyle's dragons [in "Empty Bottles" & THE WONDER CLOCK (1887)] -- 
Baum in his essay on modern fairy tales mentions Pyle's fine dragon stories,
and I was puzzled that I couldn't find examples when I went looking.

AGannaway7 at aol.com wrote: 

> A researcher from Aberdeen told me
that Baum was heavily involved in
> theater when he lived there, and worked on and/or performed in at least
> one G&S production. I dimly recall it might have been several, but
> wouldn't swear to it. >

Nancy Koupal's edition of Baum's "Our Landlady" has somewhere in the
annotations a comment about how Baum played the reverend Dr. Daley in an
Aberdeen production of "The Sorcerer." (He's the one with the song about "Ah
me! I was a pale young curate then" that upset Lewis Carroll for its
irreverence toward reverends.)
 
Ruth Berman

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:33:21 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] electric mo

Scott Hutchins <scottandrewhutchins at yahoo.com> wrote:
[re: Blair Frodelius' offer of a photocopy of The Flying Thief of Oz by Jon L. Breen]
> Aside from an incorrect claim by one of the characters that there is no
> electricity in Oz, this is a really good story. >

It's interesting that Baum has the diamond-studded cavern of the Good
Sorceress Maetta in "Mo" (and I assume the same in the 1898 ANW) lit by
electric lights. That's barely a decade since Edison got electric lights
patented and onto the market. I suppose that Rob, whose love of electricity
became Baum's inspiration for "The Master Key" (1901, isn't it?) had already
been drawing Baum's attention to it.

Maetta functions as a sort of sketch of Glinda, who plays a similar role in
Oz of handing out solutions to people's problems, but gradually gets more
into the action, and develops more as a character in "Land" and "Emerald
City," where she doesn't at once have solutions, and so becomes more of a
character. The diamond room is also a sort of sketch for the emerald city -- 
with the sparkling green city rather the more striking, both because of the
scale, and because of the use of color. And Baum's assignment of a fairy of
electricity to the Queen of Light in "Tik-Tok" a decade later, in turn,
shows his continuing interest in electricity as so much of a marvel as to
count as magic.

I think I recall that he used Maetta's name for Glinda's role in a late
dramatic version (was it the Oz Film "Scarecrow" movie sort-of-adapting
"Wizard"?) of "Wizard," after he'd sold the dramatic rights to the "Wizard"
per se.

Ruth Berman

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:56:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Hutchins <scottandrewhutchins at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] electric mo

It was _The Woggle-Bug_, since Glinda was in _the Wizard of Oz_, which was
concurrently playing.  He had to removed the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman,
Glinda, and anybody else who was in the other play, which led to the expanded
roles of Jack Pumpkinhead and especially the Woggle-Bug, who is in the story
from the beginning instead of 2/3 of the way in.
  
  Scott

Ruth Berman <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote:
 
I think I recall that he used Maetta's name for Glinda's role in a late
dramatic version (was it the Oz Film "Scarecrow" movie sort-of-adapting
"Wizard"?) of "Wizard," after he'd sold the dramatic rights to the "Wizard"
per se.

Ruth Berman

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:39:03 EST
From: Utc61 at aol.com
Subject: [Regalia] Fwd: Mo and Maetta

In a message dated 3/6/2006 8:37:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
dhmaxine at pacbell.net writes:

Hi  Edward, could you forward this to Regalia please :)

Best,  David

scottandrewhutchins at yahoo.com writes:

"It was _The Woggle-Bug_, since Glinda was in _the
Wizard of Oz_, which was  concurrently playing.  He had
to removed the Scarecrow, the Tin  Woodman, Glinda, and
anybody else who was in the other play..."  

Ruth Berman  <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote:
"I think I recall that he  used Maetta's name for
Glinda's role in a late dramatic version (was it  the
Oz Film "Scarecrow" movie sort-of-adapting "Wizard"?)
of "Wizard,"  after he'd sold the dramatic rights to
the "Wizard" per se.
--Ruth  Berman


I thought I'd chime in on this if Edward will be  kind
enough to post this. A number of errors are creeping
in here. 

First Glinda is not in the 1903 WIZARD OF OZ play. She
WAS in it  for the first few weeks in Chicago. But by
mid summer of 1902 No one ever  saw Glinda again in the
Broadway WIZARD. I don't see any goos raeson that  Baum
should have ditched Glinda for Maetta in WOGGLEBUG the
musical.  Maetta is only used by Baum in trwo places.
She is in WOGGLEBUG the msuical  and she is in MAGICAL
MONARCH OF MO. Baum never reused her in any  other
dramatic works.

Also, Baum never "sold his rights" to WIZARD  he COULD
have used any or all of the characters had he wanted
to.  Legality has nothing to do with it.

Just thought a little clarity might  be of assistance.

David Maxine

Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:47:25 -0500
From: "J. L. Bell" <jnolbell at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Regalia] Re: MO villains

Ruth Berman wrote:
> Looking at the passage again, I see that the narrative says the iron giant 
> was designed and constructed by Scowleyow and his engineers. So pretty
> clearly no involvement from Smith & Tinker after all.

Unless one decides that Smith & Tinker were part of Scowleyow's team
before decamping for Evna. OZMA shows that they're not picky about whom
they contract for, and might be adept at escaping from tyrants.

The authors of the essay about Tik-Tok and the laws of robotics decided
that Smith & Tinker came from the Great Outside World, so having them
come from another corner of the Nonestic continent is minor in comparison.

> Thanks for
> locating Pyle's dragons [in "Empty Bottles" & THE WONDER CLOCK (1887)] --
> Baum in his essay on modern fairy tales mentions Pyle's fine dragon stories,
> and I was puzzled that I couldn't find examples when I went looking.

Don't thank me; thank Google! Makes it so easy not to do the reading.

J. L. Bell                
JnoLBell at earthlink.net

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:51:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Hutchins <scottandrewhutchins at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] Fwd: Mo and Maetta

David,
  
  I do recall you saying that at a convention, but Swartz said she did,
and even named several actors who played her.  That book has an
endorsement from you on the cover, and I noted when I did my book review for my
master's that this disagreement was a point of contention for me that affected
my review, since it seemd like much of what you said was a contradiction of
what Swartz said, and your research seemd to be newer than his, yet still
preceded its publication.
  
  Scott

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 14:51:44 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] maetta & mo villains

Scott Hutchins <scottandrewhutchins at yahoo.com> wrote:
> It [substitution of Maetta for Glinda] was _The Woggle-Bug_ <

Thanks for the footnoting. Interesting, the disagreement in the comments
from you and from David Maxine over how long Glinda was in the run of the
stage-play and whether Baum actually needed to have a substitute for her in
"Wogglebug" to avoid conflicts. I'll try to remember to see if the later
reviews I have indicate anything on this point (although in any case they
would hardly be likely to have comments about the reasons for Glinda's
absence from "Wogglebug").

"J. L. Bell" <jnolbell at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Looking at the passage again, I see that the narrative says the iron
>> giant was designed and constructed by Scowleyow and his engineers. So
>> pretty clearly no involvement from Smith & Tinker after all. 
>
> Unless one decides that Smith & Tinker were part of Scowleyow's team
> before decamping for Evna. OZMA shows that they're not picky about whom
> they contract for, and might be adept at escaping from tyrants. >

Ingenious suggestion -- seems quite plausible!

Another interesting detail in Baum's portrayal of Maetta is the way the Good
Sorceress is balanced off against A Wicked Wizard -- she's indoors but
above-ground in a diamond-studded, electric-lit castle. He's under-ground in
a ruby-studded electric-lit cavern. Both hide from the sunlight and delight
in the play of artificial light on gems, but she has easy access to the
outside if she chooses, while he deliberately does not. His ruby-red in this
context suggests hellfire against the purity of the white diamonds. (When it
comes to Glinda, of course, ruby-red takes on a different, diamond-like set
of associations.)

Ruth Berman

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:55:12 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] just so mo

The story of how the rabbit and the fox got their tails (with the Sly Fox
getting the long bushy tail that was intended by Maetta to replace the
rabbit's lost one, and the rabbit getting stuck forever after with just a
stump of a tail) is rather like Kipling's "Just So Stories," but those
didn't come out (in book form, anyway -- I'm not sure about periodical
publication of them) until 1902, a few years after "A New Wonderland." What
are some earlier examples of stories about how various animals (or various
things-in-general) came to be the way they are?

I suppose we can take it that the Sly Fox (living between the River of
Needles and Maetta's castle) is not the same fox as the family-loving fox
who lives near enough central Mo to be easily accused by the unwise Wise Men
of eating the plum pudding.

Ruth Berman

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:22:17 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] mo-ography

These geographical cross-references have been pointed out before, but in the
context of a Mo discussion, it's probably as well to repeat them together
here --

Although Baum did not include Mo on the "Tik-Tok" map, he did make Mo a
feature of the Oz books. Button Bright, Trot, and Cap'n Bill land there
briefly before getting to Oz to stay in "Scarecrow." The Wise Donkey of Mo
shows up, without explanation, as a character in "Patchwork Girl," with a
companion not known from Mo, the Foolish Owl. He gives Ojo the reasonably
wise advice that he should follow the Yellow Brick Road. Perhaps we might
guess, although there's no mention of the Magical Monarch or other Mo-ites
at Ozma's big birthday bash in "Road," that that was when the Wise Donkey
came to visit Oz and elected to stay. (Maybe he wasn't planning to stay
quite so long, but was caught there when the close of "Emerald City" cut off
easy communication with the Outside World, including the Borderlands on Oz's
continent?) Dick Martin included it on the map in RPT's "Enchanted
Island."

Under the "New Wonderland" name of Phunnyland, it was mentioned in "Santa
Claus." (Maybe we should guess that people outside the valley refer to it as
Phunnyland, and Mo is what the residents call it, and that the narrator knew
it by the outsiders' name in 1898, but knew what the residents call it by
1903?) J.L. Bell pointed out a good while back that there's a difference in
the prefaces to ANW and MMM, with the narrator expressing a wish in the 1898
preface to go back eventually to Phunnyland and stay there. Maybe Baum felt
that this wish wasn't kind to his wife and children, or maybe by 1903 he had
enough imaginary lands in print to feel that he shouldn't single out one as
his favorite in that way if he wanted readers to look for all of them.

The unnamed ocean where Scowleyow's Iron Giant is sunk is presumably the
Nonestic Ocean, as it has to be for Mo to be one of the Borderlands, and for
Trot and Cap'n Bill to reach it by sea from islands included on the
"Tik-Tok" map, as they do in "Scarecrow." Baum had decided on the name of
"Nonestic" before "Scarecrow," as he had it on the "Tik-Tok" map, but it
isn't actually named in "Scarecrow" (or in the text of "Tik-Tok"), yet
either. He first named it in an Oz text in "Rinkitink," and perhaps the
original non-Oz version of Rinkitink's story was where he first used the
name. Once he'd decided that the Borderlands were all part of the same
world, the unnamed ocean of "Zixi" and "John Dough" also had to be the
Nonestic. The giant Hartilaf had some means of going from just outside Mo to
Alaska for the hunting (he also mentions South America), but perhaps magic
was involved in the journey. With the Nonestic surrounding the continent,
there can't very well be any land-crossing.

Ruth Berman

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:41:23 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] geographical ps

But I mis-spoke in saying that Trot and Cap'n Bill in "Scarecrow" visit some
of the islands on the "Tik-Tok" map. The already-mapped sites they visit are
inland (Jinx and the Great-or-Magic Waterfall), on or near the southern edge
of the Quadling Country. The "Tik-Tok" Borderlands map shows only a scrap of
the Nonestic, to the north, and only two islands, Phreex (which had already
appeared in a non-Oz story, in "John Dough," and would later get a reference
in "Rinktink") and Pingaree (which first appeared in "Rinkitink," but must
have been present already in the preceding, non-Oz version of the story).
Pessim's Island, the one Trot and Cap'n Bill visit, is indicated as further
to the south in the Nonestic on the Haff/Martin map, but the "Tik-Tok" map
doesn't show the southern coastline at all, although presumably it's just
below the edge of the map.

Ruth Berman

L. Frank Baum, Frank Ver Beck

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:44:14 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO

Ruth:
> But there are a lot of smaller Carrollian bits -- the King loses
> his temper with the Tramp Dog (like the LG Queen's exam question about the
> temper as what remains when you take a bone from a dog)

The idea of a temper being a tangible thing is also used to clever
effect in the tale of Timtom and Pattycake.

> I've started re-reading "Mo" now with Verbeck illos. I don't think I like
> these illos much. Copelman's illos aren't among my favorites, but I think I
> prefer her Mo to Verbeck's -- unless the Donahue reprint did particularly
> badly by Verbeck. (And I think my copy may be missing some of the color
> plates. I should probably look also at the Dover paperback reprint to
> compare how his illos look there.)

I have the Dover version, and I've never really had a chance to look
at the Copelman illustrations.  Verbeck has a bit of an odd take on
male faces, which doesn't seem to carry over to female ones.  I am
rather fond of some of Verbeck's color illustrations, including the
one of Truella on the stork (which can be found on the Dover cover),
and the one of the Gigaboo.  I'm glad Dover reprinted the color
plates, since many publishers don't include those in their paperback
editions.

Atticus:
> On 3/1/06, Ruth Berman wrote:
>
> <<Not a Carroll influence -- is it stretching too much to suspect  that
> Timtom's Bird, worrying that the new song sounds too much like a comic
> opera, has received from Gilbert & Sullivan's "Mikado" the suicidal  bird's
> refrain "Willow, tit-willow, tit-willow"?>>
>
> I wouldn't say so. A researcher from Aberdeen told me that Baum was heavily
> involved in theater when he lived there, and worked on and/or performed in at
> least one G&S production. I dimly recall it might have been several, but
> wouldn't swear to it.

Isn't there also a reference to a G&S operetta in one of the OUR
LANDLADY columns?
--
Brick is red, and Hitler's dead,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org or fablesto at gmail.com

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:56:48 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] mo-ography

On 3/8/06, Ruth Berman <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote:
> These geographical cross-references have been pointed out before, but in the
> context of a Mo discussion, it's probably as well to repeat them together
> here --
>
> Although Baum did not include Mo on the "Tik-Tok" map, he did make Mo a
> feature of the Oz books. Button Bright, Trot, and Cap'n Bill land there
> briefly before getting to Oz to stay in "Scarecrow."

In SCARECROW, Baum contradicts the idea expressed in MAGICAL MONARCH
that there's no night in Mo.  Near the end of Chapter 7, he writes,
"The day's adventures had made our wanderers tired, so the Bumpy Man
brought them some blankets in which they rolled themselves and then
lay down before the fire, which their host kept alive with fuel all
through the night."  Both lemonade rain and popcorn snow are mentioned
in SCARECROW, and we also learn that the winds are scented.

> The Wise Donkey of Mo
> shows up, without explanation, as a character in "Patchwork Girl," with a
> companion not known from Mo, the Foolish Owl.

In ANNOTATED WIZARD, Michael Patrick Hearn suggests that Prince the
dog, who comes "from a country beyond the mountains and the desert,"
might originally be from Oz.  How he would have crossed the desert is
a mystery, but maybe he and the Donkey accomplished it in the same
fashion.  It would also explain why Prince, despite being a stranger
in Mo, appears to have no problem conversing with humans.

Speaking of dogs, Baum states that there are "no dogs at all in Mo," a
statement he also made about Oz.  In the Oz series, this is actually a
mistake, as a green dog is mentioned in LAND.  We don't see any native
dogs in Mo during the course of MAGICAL MONARCH, though.  On the other
hand, it's mentioned in the Fifth Surprise that the King's birthday
guests "had never before seen such a thing as a frog," yet one of the
animals accused by the Wise Men of stealing the plum-pudding is a
bullfrog!  I find it likely that the Wise Men were at the party, so
this was probably just sloppiness on Baum's part.

> Dick Martin included it on the map in RPT's "Enchanted Island."

On the Borderlands map available from the Oz Club, Mo is colored in
pink, as Baum suggests in the book.  I found that to be a nice touch.

One possible mistake on the Haff/Martin map is that Hartilaf is shown
as living within the borders of the Valley of Mo, while MAGICAL
MONARCH makes clear that he lives in the next valley over.  This next
valley might or might not be subject to the rule of the Magical
Monarch, but it's described as being on the other side of mountains,
presumably the ones surrounding Mo.

> Under the "New Wonderland" name of Phunnyland, it was mentioned in "Santa
> Claus." (Maybe we should guess that people outside the valley refer to it as
> Phunnyland, and Mo is what the residents call it, and that the narrator knew
> it by the outsiders' name in 1898, but knew what the residents call it by
> 1903?)

Perhaps the first outsider to stumble upon Mo was named Phunny.

Overall, I'm glad Baum eventually went with "Mo" instead of
"Phunnyland" as the name of the country, as the latter just strikes me
as too blatantly jokey.

> The giant Hartilaf had some means of going from just outside Mo to
> Alaska for the hunting (he also mentions South America), but perhaps magic
> was involved in the journey.

He mentions getting elephants in South America, which suggests that he
might not be particularly good at geography.
--
Brick is red, and Hitler's dead,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org or fablesto at gmail.com

Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:01:36 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: [Regalia] Im-Mo-rtality

As was the case with talking animals and trees that grow unusual
items, the idea of immortal humans appeared in MAGICAL MONARCH prior
to the Oz series.  Moites seem to be somewhat more durable than
Ozites, though.  While it is eventually established in the Oz books
that cast-off body parts continue to live, it takes magic along the
lines of the WWE's glue to reattach them.  In Mo, however, people seem
to be able to easily reassemble themselves, as happens with Jollikin
when he fights the Gigaboo.  One contrary reference does appear, when
the woodcutter mentions that the Purple Dragon "didn't glue [the
King's head] on straight."  Maybe it takes more effort to attach body
parts that belong to other people.  It's also suggested that the King
is just as old as the Valley itself, which hints that Moites have been
immortal for a long time.  On the other hand, the Monarch has children
of various ages, which seems to indicate that they all grew to a
certain age and then stopped.  I suppose it's also possible that the
Princes and Princesses simply came into existence already at their
current ages, though.  Also, if we take the statement that Duchess
Bredenbutta is the King's forty-seventh cousin (another use of Baum's
apparent favorite number, by the way) literally, it means they had a
common ancestor forty-seven generations back.  It's pretty common for
people to use the "[x]th cousin" designation without really knowing
what it means, though, and Baum uses "second cousin" pretty loosely in
DOTWIZ and TIK-TOK, at least.

It's never entirely clear how much of this immortality animals share.
Baum specifically says that "wild and ferocious beasts may be killed
in Mo as well as in other parts of the world," but doesn't really say
anything about the tame ones.  In the Thirteenth Surprise, the
Bullfrog tells of a fish out of water "expiring," but whether this
means death as we know it is unclear.  The same Surprise has the Fox
remove his family's necks and later reattach them, which hints that
animal body parts don't die when cast off.  (Because Baum would NEVER
break his own established rules simply to make a pun on the word
"cure," would he? ;))

As Martin Gardner mentions in his introduction to the Dover edition,
there is a lot of cartoonish violence and humor in MAGICAL MONARCH.
In addition to the examples he gives, I feel I should point out that
the idea of an animal accidentally hatching an egg from an entirely
different species (as happens with the Yellow Hen and the baby hawk)
is one that was used in countless Warner Brothers shorts.  There's
also a traditional fairy tale style to the Seventh and Ninth Surprises
in particular.  Both Timtom and Truella have to pass a series of
challenges with assistance from magical allies and items, and things
work in a way that isn't particularly realistic, but has a certain
logic to it.  Note that both Timtom and the Scarecrow (in his own
book) cross gaps on a spider web, but the Scarecrow's has to be
magically reinforced.  As with many other examples I could give, the
incident is given somewhat more realism in Oz than in Mo.  The Wicked
Wizard's room of knives is also quite similar to a trick used by the
Nome King against King Rinkitink.

Another interesting difference between Oz and Mo is that Mo has
bicycles, which Baum never places in Oz.  Later authors do, however,
with Scraps mentioned as riding the palace cook's bicycle in MERRY GO
ROUND, and her own Spoolicle in RUNAWAY.  Mo also has at least two
telephones, while the closest thing we see in Oz is the wireless radio
device that the Shaggy Man uses to contact Ozma in TIK-TOK.
--
Brick is red, and Hitler's dead,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org or fablesto at gmail.com

Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:08:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Hutchins <scottandrewhutchins at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] Im-Mo-rtality

Isn't there a Beill illustration, not form one of the Oz books, that shows Ozma
going to answer a telpehone?  Or maybe that's supposed to be someone else.
  
  Scott

Nathan DeHoff <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
  Mo also has at least two
telephones, while the closest thing we see in Oz is the wireless radio
device that the Shaggy Man uses to contact Ozma in TIK-TOK.
--
Brick is red, and Hitler's dead,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org or fablesto at gmail.com

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:05:23 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] more mo

"Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have the Dover version, and I've never really had a chance to look at
> the Copelman illustrations.  Verbeck has a bit of an odd take on male 
> faces, which doesn't seem to carry over to female ones.  I am rather fond
> of some of Verbeck's color illustrations, including the one of Truella on
> the stork (which can be found on the Dover cover), and the one of the
> Gigaboo.  I'm glad Dover reprinted the color plates, since many publishers
> don't include those in their paperback editions. <

Yes, it looks as if Verbeck was putting special care into the color plates.
I notice that Martin Gardner's intro says that the 1903 "Mo" edition left
out a couple of color plates that were in the 1899 "New Wonderland" edition
(and did he say also that Verbeck added a couple to the 1903?), so that the
Dover edition gives more color plates than any single earlier edition. The
reduction in page size doesn't hurt the color plates, going from one
full-page size to a smaller but still full-page size, but it makes it hard
to see all those almost-on-in-the-margins b&w illos he did.

> I think it's quite likely that Oz (or at least Ozma's palace) doesn't have 
> the kind of wall socket that would be necessary to plug in a vacuum
> cleaner. <

Hmm -- you'd think Jellia and her staff would want to have access to some
kind of machine that would clean more effectively than a broom or even a
carpet sweeper. But perhaps whatever they use has a self-contained (and
maybe even inexhaustible?) power source so that there isn't the bother of
tripping over the cord.  Looking at a website on vintage vacuum cleaners, I
see that the electric vacuum cleaner goes back to about 1907, but that
hand-pump-powered vacuum cleaners were available from sometime shortly after
the Civil War. I would imagine they must have been pretty tiring to operate.
Maybe an Oz-style vacuum cleaner would have been something more like those
non-electric models, with some kind of magic to do the pumping for the
operator.

> In SCARECROW, Baum contradicts the idea expressed in MAGICAL MONARCH that
> there's no night in Mo.  Near the end of Chapter 7, he writes, "The day's
> adventures had made our wanderers tired, so the Bumpy Man brought them
> some blankets in which they rolled themselves and then lay down before the 
> fire, which their host kept alive with fuel all through the night."  Both
> lemonade rain and popcorn snow are mentioned in SCARECROW, and we also
> learn that the winds are scented. >

The stories themselves to some extent contradict the claim in the opening
chapter that Mo has no night and the people consequently don't sleep.
Pattycake is described as scolding "from morning till night," and Truella is
"lying late in bed" one morning when the Wizard swoops in and steals her
toe. There are also various references to people who sleep when tired from
special exertion, and references to night, sundown, and sunrise in regard to
Scowleyow, the Giant, and the Yellow Hen on her journey, but erhaps those
latter should all be considered as outside Mo and perhaps beds are used for
resting if not for regular sleep.

> it's mentioned in the Fifth Surprise that the King's birthday guests "had
> never before seen such a thing as a frog," yet one of the animals accused
> by the Wise Men of stealing the plum-pudding is a bullfrog! <

The Historian of Mo is apparently about as reliable as the Historians of Oz
in claiming that things are totally unknown.

> One possible mistake on the Haff/Martin map is that Hartilaf is shown as
> living within the borders of the Valley of Mo, while MAGICAL MONARCH makes 
> clear that he lives in the next valley over. <

Perhaps if it's a narrow valley with still higher mountains on the other
side, this should be considered a problem of scale, with difficulty showing
the Giant's valley as among the mountains and difficulty showing both the
higher mountains cutting off the Giant's territory from non-giant travellers
and the lower mountains cutting off the Giant's territory from Mo-proper. (A
bit like the question of whether Jinxland is actually part of Oz or not.)

> He [Hartilaf] mentions getting elephants in South America, which suggests
> that he might not be particularly good at geography. <

It would seem not.

> if we take the statement that Duchess Bredenbutta is the King's
> forty-seventh cousin (another use of Baum's apparent favorite number, by
> the way) literally, it means they had a common ancestor forty-seven
> generations back.  It's pretty common for people to use the "[x]th cousin"
> designation without really knowing what it means, though, and Baum uses
> "second cousin" pretty loosely in DOTWIZ and TIK-TOK, at least.
>

Perhaps in Mo counting generations back from a king who is as old as his
country is meaningless anyway, and they use numbers like "47" instead to
mean that the King has some large number of cousins who are ranked in terms
of how close their relationship to him is, and she is #47? What are some of
the other cases where Baum uses the number 47?

> Baum would NEVER break his own established rules simply to make a pun on
> the word "cure," would he? ;)) >

He doesn't even qualify under the Gilbertian rule of "What never? -- well, 
hardly ever."

> the idea of an animal accidentally hatching an egg from an entirely
> different species (as happens with the Yellow Hen and the baby hawk) is
> one that was used in countless Warner Brothers shorts. <

Happened to Andersen's Ugly Duckling, too. And, of course, there really are
species of birds that leave their eggs in other birds' nest for hatching.

Ruth Berman

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:36:30 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] more mo

On 3/13/06, Ruth Berman <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote:
> "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
> > In SCARECROW, Baum contradicts the idea expressed in MAGICAL MONARCH that
> > there's no night in Mo.  Near the end of Chapter 7, he writes, "The day's
> > adventures had made our wanderers tired, so the Bumpy Man brought them
> > some blankets in which they rolled themselves and then lay down before the
> > fire, which their host kept alive with fuel all through the night."  Both
> > lemonade rain and popcorn snow are mentioned in SCARECROW, and we also
> > learn that the winds are scented. >
>
> The stories themselves to some extent contradict the claim in the opening
> chapter that Mo has no night and the people consequently don't sleep.
> Pattycake is described as scolding "from morning till night," and Truella is
> "lying late in bed" one morning when the Wizard swoops in and steals her
> toe.

Like some of the passages in the Oz books, the First Surprise seems to
present Mo in a much more positive light than the subsequent
Surprises, which often present the Moites facing various dangers.
Perhaps the "no night" myth is one that's popular in the countries
near Mo, but isn't really true.  Even if it IS never night, the people
would presumably still need to sleep.  Baum used the idea of a country
being permanently stuck at one time of day in YEW, with Twi and its
perpetual twilight, but the people there seemed to be awake and asleep
for normal periods of time.

> What are some of the other cases where Baum uses the number 47?

The three I can remember offhand are:

--In QUEEN ZIXI, the 47th person through the gates of Nole would
become the next ruler of Noland.
--In SKY ISLAND, there were 47 windows in the Six Snubnosed Princesses' room.
--In DOT AND TOT, there is a block of 47 flats in the Valley of Pussycats.

I also remember someone pointing out that, in one of Baum's
non-fantasy books (Mary Louise?  Aunt Jane's Nieces?), a character
says that 47 is her lucky number.  I haven't read the book in
question, though.

Interestingly, I can't recall any significant use of the number 47 in
the Oz series.

> > the idea of an animal accidentally hatching an egg from an entirely
> > different species (as happens with the Yellow Hen and the baby hawk) is
> > one that was used in countless Warner Brothers shorts. <
>
> Happened to Andersen's Ugly Duckling, too.

True.  Maybe the Yellow Hen's story is sort of a reversal of this
(with the ugly chick growing up to be a brutal hawk, rather than
something beautiful).  And speaking of references, could the
wizard-turned-crow biting off Truella's toe be inspired by the line
"along came a blackbird and snipped off her nose" from "Sing a Song of
Sixpence"?
--
Brick is red, and Hitler's dead,
Nathan
DinnerBell at tmbg.org or fablesto at gmail.com

L. Frank Baum, Frank Ver Beck

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:28:42 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] 47/42

"Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
> The three I can remember [besides Bredanbutta as 47th cousin of the king]
> offhand are: In QUEEN ZIXI, the 47th person through the gates of Nole
> would become the next ruler of Noland, In SKY ISLAND, there were 47
> windows in the Six Snubnosed Princesses' room, In DOT AND TOT, there is a
> block of 47 flats in the Valley of Pussycats. >

Four instances (or 5 if someone can track down the non-fantasy example) does
sound like enough to establish that Baum probably meant something by it.
It's curious how people sometimes choose themselves lucky numbers, and
sometimes without any obvious reasons. Lewis Carroll fans like to argue
about whether Carroll was doing that with 42 (the oldest rule in the book,
according to the King of Hearts, the Naval Code rule that allegedly forbade
speaking to the man at the helm in "Hunting of the Snark"), the Baker's 42
boxes (also "Snark"), and the 42-year old narrator in "Phantasmagoria."
(It's often speculated or assumed that Douglas Adams meant 42 as the answer
to life, the universe, and everything as a reference to Lewis Carroll, but I
looked just now for info about that, and I see Neil Gaiman has a site where
he mentions that he asked Adams about it, and Adams said he'd tried to read
Carroll a couple of times, didn't like it, and didn't get far into it. Seems
surprising, but there it is.) In Carroll's case, it's been argued that four
42s is too few to establish that Carroll was using it intentionally, but it
also seems like too many to be purely chance. Seems as if he must have had
some association with it (not his age -- he wasn't yet 42 when he wrote
"Wonderland" and "Phantasmagoria," and past 42 with "Snark"), yet no
biographer has found a likely clue to what the association might have been.
Quite possibly for both of them some incidents too trivial to show up in
biographical records.

Ruth Berman

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:30:17 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] 47/42

On 3/14/06, Ruth Berman <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote:
> Lewis Carroll fans like to argue
> about whether Carroll was doing that with 42 (the oldest rule in the book,
> according to the King of Hearts, the Naval Code rule that allegedly forbade
> speaking to the man at the helm in "Hunting of the Snark"), the Baker's 42
> boxes (also "Snark"), and the 42-year old narrator in "Phantasmagoria."

Also, the White King sends 4207 men to attend to the fallen Humpty
Dumpty, which might or might not count as another appearance of the
number.

> (It's often speculated or assumed that Douglas Adams meant 42 as the answer
> to life, the universe, and everything as a reference to Lewis Carroll, but I
> looked just now for info about that, and I see Neil Gaiman has a site where
> he mentions that he asked Adams about it, and Adams said he'd tried to read
> Carroll a couple of times, didn't like it, and didn't get far into it.  Seems
> surprising, but there it is.)

Aren't the episodes of the original HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE radio play
referred to as "fits," just like the verses in "Snark"?

Nathan

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:06:02 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] fits & starts

"Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
> Aren't the episodes of the original HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE radio play referred 
> to as "fits," just like the verses in "Snark"? >

Are they? Seems an odd coincidence, if so. I don't think Gaiman would be
pulling the reader's leg about his conversation with Adams, but I wonder if
just possibly Adams was pulling Gaiman's leg in claiming not to have read
Lewis Carroll. Then again, Adams could have independently noticed and been
amused by the clash of fit-meanings as in a division of a poem from OE fitt,
akin to Old High German fizza, skein; and as in well-adapted/competent from
ME fitten; and as in a violent attack from OE fitt meaning strife. I suppose
a dictionary larger than the "Webster's Collegiate" I have here might

explain if the identity or near-identity of these three roots goes back as
far as the words are traced, or if originally they are known or thought to
have had root forms a bit more distinct than this indicates.

> Also, the White King sends 4207 men to attend to the fallen Humpty Dumpty, 
> which might or might not count as another appearance of the number. <

Yes, there was an article one time in the British Carroll Society's journal
about 42s in Carroll, using a lot of factoring and such like number-play to
come up with more 42s than the four that are definitely there, and that was
one of the ones suggested. The article argued that Carroll perhaps liked
"42" in the first place as a number-play indicating that he thought the
world was all at sixes and at sevens (the trusty Collegiate defines this
phrase, but doesn't offer any guesses on where it comes from). Carroll liked
number-play much as he did word-play, and might have been doing something of
the sort, but such extra 42s might all be coincidences, too (like finding
anagrams in sentences or names). I suspect that a mathematician could come
up with a way of calculating whether coincidence or intention is the more
likely, but I suspect also that would be a very difficult calculation.

Ruth Berman

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:57:14 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] fits & starts

On 3/16/06, Ruth Berman <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote:
> The article argued that Carroll perhaps liked
> "42" in the first place as a number-play indicating that he thought the
> world was all at sixes and at sevens (the trusty Collegiate defines this
> phrase, but doesn't offer any guesses on where it comes from).

I sort of figured that "at sixes and sevens" comes from Hebrew
numerology, and the tendency for the number seven to refer to Godly
things, while six is seen as an evil number (as in the Mark of the
Beast being 666).  I have no evidence that this is actually true,
though.

Nathan

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:23:17 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] 6s & 7s

"Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
> I sort of figured that "at sixes and sevens" comes from Hebrew numerology,
> and the tendency for the number seven to refer to Godly things, while six
> is seen as an evil number (as in the Mark of the Beast being 666). <

I tried a websearch, and came across a fascinating website, worldwidewords,
run by Michael Quinion, the author of _Port Out and Starboard Home and other
language myths_ (in US, _Ballyhoo Buckaroo and Spuds_), a freelance writer
who does a lot of writing/researching for dictionaries. He says that "at
sixes and sevens" may possibly refer to the obscure passage in Job 5:19, "He
shall deliver thee in six troubles; in seven shall no evil touch thee," but
the explanation that sounds more likely to him is that it came from hazard
(dice game ancestor of craps), from a French phrase referring to "cinq et
six" as a hard bet to make and therefore an unwise and disorderly situation.
That would translate literally to 5 & 6," but it could have been
mistranslated by English speakers who heard the words and guessed at the
meaning as "6 & 7."

This gets us a long way from Baum, and I would put in something to drag it
back round again, but have to admit I can't think of a tag to tie it back.

Ruth Berman

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:11:25 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: [Regalia] Mo miscellanea

I find it amusing that the wood-chopper stops by to visit the Purple
Dragon.  I wouldn't imagine that most of the people in Mo would be on
friendly terms with the monster.

In the Sixth Surprise, we learn that the people of Mo are familiar
with baseball, or at least some game that involves umpires and home
runs.

The end of that Surprise says that the Cast-Iron Man "marched...into
the kingdom of the wicked Scowleyow, where he crushed the King and all
his people."  So is the Kingdom of Scowleyow an uninhabited wasteland
after this?  I tend to doubt it.  If the giant walked in a straight
line (as is likely), then some (perhaps most) of Scowleyow's subjects
were probably able to get out of his way.  I think it makes sense that
it crushed the King himself, though, as that would be poetic justice.
I believe that, in a story of mine that mentions the Kingdom of
Scowleyow, I had it ruled by the son of the King Scowleyow in MAGICAL
MONARCH.

Don't spiders actually have more than two eyes?

In the Ninth Surprise, it is mentioned that Timtom is "now a Prince"
after marrying Pattycake, but no such designation is given to the
other men who have married princesses, like the three who made
replacement heads for the King.

In YELLOW KNIGHT, Zunda mentions that one of the levels of the
Underworld is Upsidedown, famed for its earthscrapers.  I wonder is
Turvyland is part of Upsidedown.

The idea of the King's animal crackers wanting to be eaten comes off
as a little disturbing.  It reminds me somewhat of the cow in Douglas
Adams' THE RESTAURANT AT THE END OF THE UNIVERSE.

Nathan

Illustration by Frank Ver Beck

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:18:40 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] mo notes
 
"Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
> I find it amusing that the wood-chopper stops by to visit the Purple
> Dragon.  I wouldn't imagine that most of the people in Mo would be on 
> friendly terms with the monster. >

I notice that the Dragon invites the wood-chopper to "step into his parlor."
Pretty clearly, we are to remember Mary Howitt's spider inviting the fly,
"Will you walk into my parlor." Howitt's spider is a clever seducer, easily
able to fool unwary flies, and apparently the Purple Dragon is, too. The Mo
folk generally are probably not on good terms with what they call that
"naughty" Purple Dragon, but the wood-chopper, living off in the woods, may
not have heard about the Dragon'sgreed and aggression.

> In the Sixth Surprise, we learn that the people of Mo are familiar with
> baseball, or at least some game that involves umpires and home runs. >

I'm reminded of Nancy Koupal's book on Baum in South Dakota -- one of the
essays in it is about his interest in baseball there, and how he promoted an
Aberdeen baseball team and a league of town teams to play one another,
partly out of affection for the game and partly hoping to build up
territorial and civic spirit (and if it had worked it might have increased
sales for the shops in the towns where the games were held, including the
Baum Bazaar).

> The end of that Surprise says that the Cast-Iron Man "marched...into the
> kingdom of the wicked Scowleyow, where he crushed the King and all his
> people."  So is the Kingdom of Scowleyow an uninhabited wasteland after
> this?  I tend to doubt it.  If the giant walked in a straight line (as is
> likely), then some (perhaps most) of Scowleyow's subjects were probably
> able to get out of his way. <

Perhaps the "all" who got killed weere all the ones who clustered around
Scowleyow thinking he could control the Iron Man, and they would be safer
sticking with him.

> I think it makes sense that it crushed the King himself, though, as that
> would be poetic justice. I believe that, in a story of mine that mentions
> the Kingdom of Scowleyow, I had it ruled by the son of the King Scowleyow
> in MAGICAL MONARCH. >

Also named Scowleyow, in the manner of such dynasties as Rinkytink of
Rintink, the Oz or Ozmas of Oz, and the Evoldos of Ev?

> Don't spiders actually have more than two eyes?  <

Eight, isn't it? Looking at the text, I see the spider isn't actually
described as having two eyes. It says that having lost one, it sees only
"half as well," which suggests two eyes, but I suppose the spider might find
the loss of even one disruptive enough to feel as if it's lost half its
visual powers.

> In the Ninth Surprise, it is mentioned that Timtom is "now a Prince" after
> marrying Pattycake, but no such designation is given to the other men who
> have married princesses, like the three who made replacement heads for the 
> King. >

Maybe the others are, too, though, even if not mentioned? Timtom's
achievement was more spectacular than the bread and candy heads, but the
wood-chopper had to undergo about as difficult an ordeal in delivering the
wooden head. (Timtom was more successful, but, then, he ran into more help
along the way, too?) Baum was following the convention that fairytale kings
can always offer their daughters' hands in marriage as reward for services
without any objection from any daughter, but it seems a pity that it didn't
occur to him to stick in a line about checking to see if it's all right with
the princesses first. (They do object, when it comes to marrying a
woodenhead, but apparently any old human male with all his appendages is
expected to be acceptable.) Ruth Plumly Thompson had an amusing variation on
this theme in "Grampa of Oz," where Prince Tatters wins the hand of the ice
princess, but then finds out that it's just the hand, not "in marriage" (and
a good thing, too, considering the probable incompatibility of a match
between a human and an ice-person).

> In YELLOW KNIGHT, Zunda mentions that one of the levels of the Underworld
> is Upsidedown, famed for its earthscrapers.  I wonder is Turvyland is part
> of Upsidedown. >

Nice thought.

Ruth Berman

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:40:52 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] mo notes

On 3/20/06, Ruth Berman <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote:
> "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
> > In the Sixth Surprise, we learn that the people of Mo are familiar with
> > baseball, or at least some game that involves umpires and home runs.
>
>
> I'm reminded of Nancy Koupal's book on Baum in South Dakota -- one of the
> essays in it is about his interest in baseball there, and how he promoted an
> Aberdeen baseball team and a league of town teams to play one another,
> partly out of affection for the game and partly hoping to build up
> territorial and civic spirit (and if it had worked it might have increased
> sales for the shops in the towns where the games were held, including the
> Baum Bazaar).

Sports played at the Wogglebug's college in EMERALD CITY include
baseball, football, basketball, and cricket.  Baseball might have been
introduced by the Shaggy Man, who, in ROAD, claims to have played it
in his youth.  Thompson presents baseball as largely unknown in Oz,
but I don't necessarily see that as a contradiction.  It's possible
that baseball in Oz hasn't really caught on outside the college.

> > I think it makes sense that it crushed the King himself, though, as that
> > would be poetic justice. I believe that, in a story of mine that mentions
> > the Kingdom of Scowleyow, I had it ruled by the son of the King Scowleyow
> > in MAGICAL MONARCH. >
>
> Also named Scowleyow, in the manner of such dynasties as Rinkytink of
> Rintink, the Oz or Ozmas of Oz, and the Evoldos of Ev?

Yes, I did name the king Scowleyow.  It's interesting that Scowleyow's
kingdom is never actually given a name.  Haff and Martin's map simply
calls it the "Kingdom of Scowleyow," which makes sense, but perhaps
the inhabitants call it something else.

Thinking that Evardo XV's father was also named Evardo seems to be a
common mistake.  He's actually called Evoldo.  It is a little odd that
the Evardo name apparently skipped a generation, but such things do
happen.

> Baum was following the convention that fairytale kings
> can always offer their daughters' hands in marriage as reward for services
> without any objection from any daughter, but it seems a pity that it didn't
> occur to him to stick in a line about checking to see if it's all right with
> the princesses first.

Pattycake does tell Timtom that she "might" love him, if he could cure
her bad temper.  This isn't exactly the same as agreeing to marry him,
though.  It does make me wonder what would happen if some other young
man were to find a cure for Pattycake's temper before Timtom could.

Nathan

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:32:00 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] Re: Regalia Digest, Vol 20, Issue 22

"Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote
> Thinking that Evardo XV's father was also named Evardo seems to be a
> common mistake.  He's actually called Evoldo.  It is a little odd that the
> Evardo name apparently skipped a generation, but such things do happen.
>

Baum does seem to have assumed that all the members of the Ev royal family
(all the ones we hear about, anyway) include the name of the country as the
first syllable of their own names. In the neighboring (subject?) kingdom of
Rash, RPT had the prince named Evered, perhaps in compliment to the
neighbors. I wonder if she meant to suggest that Evered's mother was a
princess of Ev. "Rinkitink," besides King Rinkitink of Rinkitink, has Prince
Bobo of Boboland, the rulers Cor and Gos of Coregos (were they perhaps
previously two separate kingdoms joined by a dynastic marriage?), and Queen
Garee and Prince Inga of Pingaree. Oddly, the King's name is Kitticut, not
Pin -- although going around being called Kingpin would be rather at odds
with his dignity, so it's just as well. (The Queen's name was a late choice,
as I recall, substituting for something the publishers felt would be hard
for readers to pronounce.)

> Pattycake does tell Timtom that she "might" love him, if he could cure her
> bad temper.  This isn't exactly the same as agreeing to marry him, though.
> It does make me wonder what would happen if some other young man were to
> find a cure for Pattycake's temper before Timtom could. >

Either way, it's her choice, rather than leaving it to the Monarch to choose
for her. Timtom's attractiveness for her seems to be mostly that she would
like to be cured of her bad temper. So someone else who found a cure first
might have won her affection.



Ruth Berman

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:54:37 -0500
From: "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Regalia] Ruler and kingdom names

On 3/22/06, Ruth Berman <berma005 at umn.edu> wrote:
> "Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote
> > Thinking that Evardo XV's father was also named Evardo seems to be a
> > common mistake.  He's actually called Evoldo.  It is a little odd that the
> > Evardo name apparently skipped a generation, but such things do happen. >
>
> Baum does seem to have assumed that all the members of the Ev royal family
> (all the ones we hear about, anyway) include the name of the country as the
> first syllable of their own names. In the neighboring (subject?) kingdom of
> Rash, RPT had the prince named Evered, perhaps in compliment to the
> neighbors. I wonder if she meant to suggest that Evered's mother was a
> princess of Ev.

That's an interesting possibility.  His father's name is Asha, but his
mother's name is never given, so it's possible that she's related to
the Evian royal family.  I believe Rash is mentioned as being in Ev,
but whether that's political or merely geographical isn't clear.

> "Rinkitink," besides King Rinkitink of Rinkitink, has Prince
> Bobo of Boboland, the rulers Cor and Gos of Coregos (were they perhaps
> previously two separate kingdoms joined by a dynastic marriage?), and Queen
> Garee and Prince Inga of Pingaree. Oddly, the King's name is Kitticut, not
> Pin -- although going around being called Kingpin would be rather at odds
> with his dignity, so it's just as well. (The Queen's name was a late choice,
> as I recall, substituting for something the publishers felt would be hard
> for readers to pronounce.)

I believe it was "Uaie."  Zixi of Ix and Skamperoo of Skampavia also
have names along much the same lines.  I wonder if the King of Mo, who
is never named in the text, has a name related to that of his kingdom.

Nathan

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:33:43 -0600
From: "Ruth Berman" <berma005 at umn.edu>
Subject: [Regalia] mo names

"Nathan DeHoff" <fablesto at gmail.com> wrote:
> Zixi of Ix and Skamperoo of Skampavia also have names along much the same
> lines.  I wonder if the King of Mo, who is never named in the text, has a
> name related to that of his kingdom. >

King Larrycurly? (I'm reminded of the chapter in "Mary Poppins in the Park"
about her cousin Mr. Moe, whose children are named Eeny, Meeny, and Miney.)
Or, of course, maybe King Mo-narch.

Ruth Berman